It's Not About Formations. Its Systems. Style of Play.

[Disco]

Our biggest problem is lack of movement.  No movement means no passing options, resulting in a long ball.

 

We got no offensive pattern.

 

Simply put this.

 

Fluidity is the name of the game these days.

 

Look at Stoke/mackems/whoever, they're all very straight line teams rather than fluid movement and they're just as turgid to watch.

[Wullie]

All the central midfielders whack it long just as much as the centre halves do. Clearly on instruction IMO.

[toondra]

I think the lack of movement don't come from the players, but from the coach tactic, it's clear that the long ball to ba/cissé /hoping we win the ball is our first plan. so boring

[Mole_Toonfan]

Completely agree.

 

We have no off the ball movement, no sense of direction, no fluidity, no balance etc etc.

 

If we look at Man Utd at the weekend ( i know they lost ) but they attacked with fluidity with a clear offensive pattern of how they wanted to attack and they used 4-4-2.

 

The thing that annoys me above all else is the youth teams have all these things( well the U-21 team does at least), so why doesn't the first team?

 

[johnnypd]

The set piece issue is indicative of how long we appear to spend on attacking play. We haven't the time to be coaching them so get one strategy and stick with it irrespective of effectiveness.

 

If i was Pardew i'd task the players to come up with a couple of clever, new routines that they themselves have generated using initiative and imagination. bit of 'homework'. might get them thinking more creatively for other aspects too.

[Stuy_O]

Completely agree.

 

We have no off the ball movement, no sense of direction, no fluidity, no balance etc etc.

 

If we look at Man Utd at the weekend ( i know they lost ) but they attacked with fluidity with a clear offensive pattern of how they wanted to attack and they used 4-4-2.

 

The thing that annoys me above all else is the youth teams have all these things( well the U-21 team does at least), so why doesn't the first team?

 

I agree with your post but Man Utd have been doing that since the premier league began and have won the Premier League 10x over. Their a bad example.

 

The team to compare ourselves to has to be Everton, who have all the attributes you mention with limited resources. Similar to ourselves (resource wise) it could be argued.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Agreed it was just the first team i could think of 

[Dr Venkman]

Parky's post about Cisse is a good one, when he first arrived his hold up play was really impressive and he seemed to go wide quite often to pick it up.

[Dr Venkman]

The set piece issue is indicative of how long we appear to spend on attacking play. We haven't the time to be coaching them so get one strategy and stick with it irrespective of effectiveness.

 

If i was Pardew i'd task the players to come up with a couple of clever, new routines that they themselves have generated using initiative and imagination. bit of 'homework'. might get them thinking more creatively for other aspects too.

 

Really? I'd tell Cabaye to play it between the defenders and the goal keeper, in a good spot that might result in a scoring opportunity. It's not difficult.

[Wullie]

Remember Cisse putting over a sumptuous cross for Ba in the African Cup, Ba's header hitting the crossbar?

 

Don't think I've seen him put a single cross in here but then if he's not in the box, who's going to score or create space for Ba? Other than Ba, the others seem scared of crossing the line into the area.

[Tiresias]

I think Pards definately doesn;t think formations are that important, he wants player movement on the pitch to mean he has enough bodies in midfield etc. I don't disagree on a level but don't think Ba can drop deep to help out for instance effectively, sometimes it's about making sure there's enough midfielders in midfield to cope

[TRon]

There's hope I would say. After a decade in charge, I think Moyes has  imposed Everton's game onto other teams whereas he's often the other way around. They rigth now have a style similar to the most vintage Man Utd. side although with inferior players. A lot of pace and power throughout the side but a focus on getting it down to play.

 

Everton are a great example of a side that's finally matured into a proper passing unit to the degree where they now look capable of taking on the top sides and looking very capable of beating them. I'm not sure if that's through coaching or just buying in players with good habits. Everton have been pretty decent for the last few years but their success has often been at the mercy of injuries as they have a very small squad. When everyone is fit they tend to do well. With us, even with a full squad to pick from our performances have often been poor, even if the results have gone our way.

[buzza]

One of our biggest problems is that the defence can't bring the ball out very well and get panicked very easily, Harper likes to punt which isn't really helping our cause. I also see the central midfielders dropping very deep to pick up the ball (defenders scared to pass further than 10 yards!), this causes big gaps between midfield and forward line which is easy to defend or to cut out through balls. Jonas seems to not want to go up the wing anymore and just waits on Santon passing by or passes it backwards, I actually prefer him in the middle of midfield at the moment.

I think we are better off with only one forward up front and a midfield five, gives us more options and we seem to elaborate and dictate play much more, I am frustrated seeing the big punts up to our forward two when we know they are much better players reciving on the ground...

I think the cuatious approach is hurting us because we are not right mentally when we go out on to the pitch or that is what it seems like, on saturday we should have tonr them a new one in the first 20 mins or so because they were lamentable, we just didn't show up or really want to win the game. Hopefully because its Manu on Sunday we will go out with a different attitude.

[Lush Vlad]

The most annoying thing is, Pardew usually picks up on where we've gone wrong.  Like he said at the weekend, no rhythm or fluidity, relying too heavily on moments of brilliance, haven't really started yet this season etc. 

 

In the past he's mentioned lacking control in the midfield, wanting to control the game and possession more. 

 

Then comes the set pieces, they really are fucking horrific.  Spoke in length about it at the end of the season.  Even mentioned possibly getting a coach in to look at them.  Yet we've played the same aimless, useless, ineffective 'chip to the big man at the back post' tactic since Hughton was here.  Last time I remember it working was Carroll to Nolan, December 2010....

 

Yet he says all this stuff and we rarely seem to improve on the areas he mentions or even look like we've tried to improve.  Quite worrying really.  Is it all just hot air, saying what he thinks we want to hear?  Or is he genuinely incapable of altering how we play?

[Consortium of one]

I agree with the points being made.  Another thing that comes to mind is there is a distinct lack of creativity from our set pieces.  One of the things that impressed me last year was the fact that the opposition never knew what was coming and that helped put the defense under pressure.  We stole the odd goal, too.

[Rich]

Could easily be in one of the other threads.

 

[Jagten]

Completely agree.

 

We have no off the ball movement, no sense of direction, no fluidity, no balance etc etc.

 

If we look at Man Utd at the weekend ( i know they lost ) but they attacked with fluidity with a clear offensive pattern of how they wanted to attack and they used 4-4-2.

 

The thing that annoys me above all else is the youth teams have all these things( well the U-21 team does at least), so why doesn't the first team?

Man Utd did not play 4-4-2.

[Gallowgate Toon]

It all goes hand in hand really, the correct formation allows players to play to their strengths and that should lead to good football in our case. If you look at the mess we played on Saturday, you'll find a dearth of problems.

 

We had 2 strikers who've shown poor link up skills this season, backed up by 2 defensive midfielders that were playing ludicrously deep. We then had 4 wide players, only one of which was actually on his natural side and even then, it was James Perch, not a player that's going to bomb on and put in some good deliveries for 2 strikers that eat up good service. One of our main attacking outlets was Gutierrez who is a completely useless winger and simply not good enough for a team looking to get at the top 4. We just weren't set up to play to our strengths at all and it showed, we were neither effective nor 'attractive'.

 

The way I see it, we have 3 viable options. A relatively balanced 4-4-2, which actually involves having at least one wide player on their natural foot for starters. Or we can go with last season's success story, the 4-3-3 which seems to suit the vast majority of our players except Ba. The last one is something a little different but involves moving Ben Arfa central with a 3 man midfield and the other 2 up top, it's a little more risky but could work and would allow our ball players some extra options.

 

I think with the players we have available, it's actually harder to make them play poor football, the majority have played for teams that played some fantastic stuff and that has gotten them into Champions League spots and in some cases won trophies. It's quite ridiculous that such a collection look so clueless and directionless on the pitch.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Completely agree.

 

We have no off the ball movement, no sense of direction, no fluidity, no balance etc etc.

 

If we look at Man Utd at the weekend ( i know they lost ) but they attacked with fluidity with a clear offensive pattern of how they wanted to attack and they used 4-4-2.

 

The thing that annoys me above all else is the youth teams have all these things( well the U-21 team does at least), so why doesn't the first team?

Man Utd did not play 4-4-2.

 

In the second half they did which is when they was on top.

[Jagten]

Completely agree.

 

We have no off the ball movement, no sense of direction, no fluidity, no balance etc etc.

 

If we look at Man Utd at the weekend ( i know they lost ) but they attacked with fluidity with a clear offensive pattern of how they wanted to attack and they used 4-4-2.

 

The thing that annoys me above all else is the youth teams have all these things( well the U-21 team does at least), so why doesn't the first team?

Man Utd did not play 4-4-2.

 

In the second half they did which is when they was on top.

No, I don't believe they did. They took Giggs off, moved Kagawa to the left and Rooney played in the hole. 

[Disco]

It was obvious at the time but I can very much see why we wanted Carroll so much given that we're playing like he plays for us anyway.

[Cronky]

hi guys,

 

i think the main problem of how nufc plays come from the Four back who are so predictable, how many times williamson gives the ball back to harper ...long ball...lose the ball.

We need them to play forward and try to find directly the midfield, cabaye, tiote or direct ben arfa.

remember when harper found directly ben arfa during the norwich game, he was one on one, dribble his opponent and then made the assist for ba.

With defenders who don't know how to play simple pass and just send long balls, you can't do anything.

When they make a pass, it's for the right or left back who can't do anything and play long ball too.

Technical players at the back is so important nowadays to have fluidity in the game, ben arfa , cabaye or cissé are useless if we don't play a technical football.

 

 

I think it's true that you can't afford to have too many technically weak players in your side, no matter how skilful the others are. The opportunity to play the defence-splitting ball or seize a goal-scoring chance might not fall to the players that you want. If everyone has confidence in their team mates' ability to control the ball or make the pass, it makes a big difference to the team's confidence in getting forward.

 

Some players (eg Butt, Simpson) can end up really holding a team back.

[The College Dropout]

It was obvious at the time but I can very much see why we wanted Carroll so much given that we're playing like he plays for us anyway.

 

Yes, we look good whenever Shola comes on. It helps that defenders are tired but AC has that effect all game often. Knock it long, he lays it off to one of our better players and we go from there. Most of our goals come from 2-3 passing moves. We rarely end up with a 4-5 pass goal.

[themanupstairs]

hi guys,

 

i think the main problem of how nufc plays come from the Four back who are so predictable, how many times williamson gives the ball back to harper ...long ball...lose the ball.

We need them to play forward and try to find directly the midfield, cabaye, tiote or direct ben arfa.

remember when harper found directly ben arfa during the norwich game, he was one on one, dribble his opponent and then made the assist for ba.

With defenders who don't know how to play simple pass and just send long balls, you can't do anything.

When they make a pass, it's for the right or left back who can't do anything and play long ball too.

Technical players at the back is so important nowadays to have fluidity in the game, ben arfa , cabaye or cissé are useless if we don't play a technical football.

 

 

 

Debuchy would have solved half of this. [/canofworms]

 

Santon alone brings it into mf at the moment.

 

Sounds cliche but signing Debuchy (or someone of his ilk) would have transformed the football team. The single biggest (and probably only real) failure of our summer dealings.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Formations are equally as important as systems and style of play.