Dave Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Which also points to Pardew selection flaws, which he selects player not based on merits. Just because they are more aggressive and defensive. Tiote has been a liability for much of the season but he still prefers him there because of his defensive nature of a manager. The amount of misplace passes or invisible performances from Tiote has a big impact on our performances this year. Pardew selections has been flawed this year but he repeatly make those mistakes because he believes its the way forward. Not sure about others but this is worrying since the manager in charge is making glaring mistakes. I'm sure this was said yesterday, but I'm not sure Tiote has ever been invisible. He's never hidden in any game I've seen. His problem is despite being solid for most of the game he makes errors that cost us dear. Certainly moreso this season. He's one of the internationals at the club being played where he is most comfortable though. There is an argument that Perch has had a better season when played, so he should play. If he made that selection choice though, the amount of grief given to Pardew on here would be unreal. Guaranteed. What's that based on? I'm still a fan of Tiote but his reputation on here has nosedived massively over the last 18 months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
polpolpol Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Which also points to Pardew selection flaws, which he selects player not based on merits. Just because they are more aggressive and defensive. Tiote has been a liability for much of the season but he still prefers him there because of his defensive nature of a manager. The amount of misplace passes or invisible performances from Tiote has a big impact on our performances this year. Pardew selections has been flawed this year but he repeatly make those mistakes because he believes its the way forward. Not sure about others but this is worrying since the manager in charge is making glaring mistakes. I'm sure this was said yesterday, but I'm not sure Tiote has ever been invisible. He's never hidden in any game I've seen. His problem is despite being solid for most of the game he makes errors that cost us dear. Certainly moreso this season. He's one of the internationals at the club being played where he is most comfortable though. There is an argument that Perch has had a better season when played, so he should play. If he made that selection choice though, the amount of grief given to Pardew on here would be unreal. Guaranteed. If Perch in midfield is the answer, what's the question? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Which also points to Pardew selection flaws, which he selects player not based on merits. Just because they are more aggressive and defensive. Tiote has been a liability for much of the season but he still prefers him there because of his defensive nature of a manager. The amount of misplace passes or invisible performances from Tiote has a big impact on our performances this year. Pardew selections has been flawed this year but he repeatly make those mistakes because he believes its the way forward. Not sure about others but this is worrying since the manager in charge is making glaring mistakes. I'm sure this was said yesterday, but I'm not sure Tiote has ever been invisible. He's never hidden in any game I've seen. His problem is despite being solid for most of the game he makes errors that cost us dear. Certainly moreso this season. He's one of the internationals at the club being played where he is most comfortable though. There is an argument that Perch has had a better season when played, so he should play. If he made that selection choice though, the amount of grief given to Pardew on here would be unreal. Guaranteed. What's that based on? I'm still a fan of Tiote but his reputation on here has nosedived massively over the last 18 months. It's bullshit, there's been loads of calls for Perch to get that spot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Which also points to Pardew selection flaws, which he selects player not based on merits. Just because they are more aggressive and defensive. Tiote has been a liability for much of the season but he still prefers him there because of his defensive nature of a manager. The amount of misplace passes or invisible performances from Tiote has a big impact on our performances this year. Pardew selections has been flawed this year but he repeatly make those mistakes because he believes its the way forward. Not sure about others but this is worrying since the manager in charge is making glaring mistakes. I'm sure this was said yesterday, but I'm not sure Tiote has ever been invisible. He's never hidden in any game I've seen. His problem is despite being solid for most of the game he makes errors that cost us dear. Certainly moreso this season. He's one of the internationals at the club being played where he is most comfortable though. There is an argument that Perch has had a better season when played, so he should play. If he made that selection choice though, the amount of grief given to Pardew on here would be unreal. Guaranteed. What's that based on? I'm still a fan of Tiote but his reputation on here has nosedived massively over the last 18 months. It's bullshit, there's been loads of calls for Perch to get that spot. HF hasn't been here much to see them though, in fairness. In fact he's only made 190 posts this season, a mere 2.4% of his total since 2006. Further still, 133 of those have been since Monday. That's 70% of his 2012/13 contribution. Not good enough, leaving his effort for when we're already guaranteed safety. /stats Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Interestingly, Tiote hasn't made a single error this season that has led directly to a goal. http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Jonathan+Walters+Newcastle+United+v+Stoke+lneH22Sk5CWl.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Interestingly, Tiote hasn't made a single error this season that has led directly to a goal. http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Jonathan+Walters+Newcastle+United+v+Stoke+lneH22Sk5CWl.jpg Quite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Looking at the other end of the spectrum there is a level of 'confirmation' of which defensive players have let us down... Worst 5 Tiote - 41.3 minutes per goal conceded Sissoko - 42.7 Perch - 43.5 Marveaux - 46.7 Debuchy - 47 Tiote has been more of a liability than a help in shoring up our defence this season. His mistakes seem to be getting more and more frequent. Sissoko can't really be blamed. Never played where he is used to. Should really be playing deeper and making occasional forward runs to add to the chaos during times of pressure or when he spots a gap. The others...what we all knew. There's not much of a level of confirmation there at all, though, given the relative absence of any context. True, what else can we add to it? Chez, you know full well that HP would fail a statistics course if he presented his information like he's done in this thread. You need to do proper regressions, have big sample sizes etc. This look at minutes and goals conceded or % of shots taken inside the area to points is such a fundamentally flawed analysis that i just don't know where to start. If you can't even give confidence levels to your conclusion then it's even worse. What he's done in this thread is just confused anyone who doesn't have a background in Maths and used statistics in the worse way to 'back up' his point, by which he means that he's cherry picked stats to prove his points. Here, I'm going to do something similar: List of players in order of appearances: Cisse (34), Jonas (33).... Goals conceded: 67 (third worst in the league) Jonas is shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Of course he knows man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Would assessment of football performances and league positions require a much larger sample as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 What exactly is the argument here anyway? I don't think anyone would argue that Pardew hasn't had the rub of the green this season and that some players haven't pulled their weight at times, or have been off form for whatever reason. We've literally just survived relegation by the skin of our teeth though and the blame has to lie at the manager's feet, obviously Mike Ashley should have spent in the summer etc etc but he isn't exactly a replaceable cog in the machine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Quibbling about exactly who should be playing in defensive midfield to prevent conceding so many goals is skirting round the issue. In an ideal world, I would prefer to play without one altogether, the players should be coached into pressing in the right areas, keep the ball well and get rid of the need for a player only there to tackle by being well positioned. Alex Ferguson has been the absolute master at it. I don't necessarily have a problem with having one though because very few managers are able to coach a team as well as him, but one is the absolute maximum from the start of any game, to have two you need to have really outstanding players ahead of them. Pardew regularly plays with three. He simply doesn't know how to coach a team to defend competently without making massive attacking sacrifices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Chez, you know full well that HP would fail a statistics course if he presented his information like he's done in this thread. I got a third actually Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 It's possible he believes Tiote is a good player and will improve given a run of games. And also there is a lack of good alternatives if you believe a dedicated DM is needed. Tiote is inherently a mad man, he is prone to getting super hyper, and this has to be channeled in the right way. He should be instructed to stay calm, and not go rampaging around the pitch so much. Instead he tends to press way too far up the pitch lately, and is quite undisciplined in this. The way Pardew is always going on about wanting ball winners/tacklers, I can't help but feel this sort of approach is down to his instructions for them to go after the ball. I think this ultimately has a lot to do with Tiote's awful play. He doesn't really sit deep and offer protection to the defence, and look to intercept and force bad passes, like he did so well originally, and it's a pretty big problem. Perch essentially has the same issue. I believe this more disciplined approach to the DM position, is actually a strength of Anita's, but he has been shunted aside because he isn't a "ball winner". Just another example of Pardew not really given the players the right instructions, and getting the most out of them. It's a real problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Which also points to Pardew selection flaws, which he selects player not based on merits. Just because they are more aggressive and defensive. Tiote has been a liability for much of the season but he still prefers him there because of his defensive nature of a manager. The amount of misplace passes or invisible performances from Tiote has a big impact on our performances this year. Pardew selections has been flawed this year but he repeatly make those mistakes because he believes its the way forward. Not sure about others but this is worrying since the manager in charge is making glaring mistakes. I'm sure this was said yesterday, but I'm not sure Tiote has ever been invisible. He's never hidden in any game I've seen. His problem is despite being solid for most of the game he makes errors that cost us dear. Certainly moreso this season. He's one of the internationals at the club being played where he is most comfortable though. There is an argument that Perch has had a better season when played, so he should play. If he made that selection choice though, the amount of grief given to Pardew on here would be unreal. Guaranteed. Sorry i was eating and might not have interpreted what you wrote correctly. Just to point out Tiote never hides but his contributions going forward is quite minimal, hence the invisible part. As you said in attack he might even be a liability. That is not the only problem for Tiote, Tiote is given a pivotal role in the team to distribute the ball most of the season until cabaye officially became a quarter back in the last 8 games or so. The instructions for Tiote to be a distributor has cripple our attacks, this is not good management at all. Pardew has made bad choices but he has let it run, the performaces of individual players has been poor this season. However i think the team performances has being worse, this i am afraid is down to bad management. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Pardew's shit like, proper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 What exactly is the argument here anyway? I don't think anyone would argue that Pardew hasn't had the rub of the green this season and that some players haven't pulled their weight at times, or have been off form for whatever reason. We've literally just survived relegation by the skin of our teeth though and the blame has to lie at the managers feet, obviously Mike Ashley should have spent in the summer etc etc but he isn't exactly a replaceable cog in the machine. I feel like I've read enough of his shite to sum up the argument as such: 1) Pardew is bad but not as bad as loads of other managers we might get if he was sacked. 2) Most people on this board have at one time made a statement that is likely to be an exaggeration. I'm really glad he decided to post for a few days actually, I've learned plenty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Looking at the other end of the spectrum there is a level of 'confirmation' of which defensive players have let us down... Worst 5 Tiote - 41.3 minutes per goal conceded Sissoko - 42.7 Perch - 43.5 Marveaux - 46.7 Debuchy - 47 Tiote has been more of a liability than a help in shoring up our defence this season. His mistakes seem to be getting more and more frequent. Sissoko can't really be blamed. Never played where he is used to. Should really be playing deeper and making occasional forward runs to add to the chaos during times of pressure or when he spots a gap. The others...what we all knew. There's not much of a level of confirmation there at all, though, given the relative absence of any context. True, what else can we add to it? Chez, you know full well that HP would fail a statistics course if he presented his information like he's done in this thread. You need to do proper regressions, have big sample sizes etc. This look at minutes and goals conceded or % of shots taken inside the area to points is such a fundamentally flawed analysis that i just don't know where to start. If you can't even give confidence levels to your conclusion then it's even worse. What he's done in this thread is just confused anyone who doesn't have a background in Maths and used statistics in the worse way to 'back up' his point, by which he means that he's cherry picked stats to prove his points. Here, I'm going to do something similar: List of players in order of appearances: Cisse (34), Jonas (33).... Goals conceded: 67 (third worst in the league) Jonas is s***. I love Pip, he's such a douche Although I do agree with you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 When I see us passing and keeping posession and probing like in the first half [vs. West Brom] I think that's what Pardew has spent the week drilling them with. When I see us twating the ball out of defense I think that's the players getting tired and desparate and ignoring what they've been told. When I see shola coming on I think Pardew is trying to get those balls to stick and stop it being wave after wave of attack. Daily reminder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Quibbling about exactly who should be playing in defensive midfield to prevent conceding so many goals is skirting round the issue. In an ideal world, I would prefer to play without one altogether, the players should be coached into pressing in the right areas, keep the ball well and get rid of the need for a player only there to tackle by being well positioned. Alex Ferguson has been the absolute master at it. I don't necessarily have a problem with having one though because very few managers are able to coach a team as well as him, but one is the absolute maximum from the start of any game, to have two you need to have really outstanding players ahead of them. Pardew regularly plays with three. He simply doesn't know how to coach a team to defend competently without making massive attacking sacrifices. In an event a team can defend as a unit and press the right way, they need less defensive players since it compensated by team organization. Pardew likes the tight unit system, it seem to work last year where teams took extra to break us down. I actually think Pardew got founded out although he prides himself on tactics. Defensively we are often chasing players fouling them, we look defensive and set out as a team to defend but it always like we are chasing shadows. The pressing tactic we are using is not working as effectively as last year, its still yet to be addressed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 If HP was serious about wanting to find out what's the most important factor in getting points, then he'd look back at the last five years of statistics in the league, giving a healthy 190 game sample size, very much big enough to form conclusions that have a high degree of confidence. He'd then do a regression of points to things like possession, chances inside the box, chances inside 6 yards, % of shots from outside etc etc. He'd get a proper R^2 and a 'formula' for getting points in the premier league. Right now, for a guy who has background in statistics, he's just being disingenuous and in many cases is purposely conflating things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 This is easily the worst this thread has ever been. And it was fucking downright minging patter to begin with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 This is easily the worst this thread has ever been. And it was fucking downright minging patter to begin with. These last few pages have put me off posting. It's that bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 This is easily the worst this thread has ever been. And it was fucking downright minging patter to begin with. These last few pages have put me off posting. It's that bad. Every cloud. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 This is easily the worst this thread has ever been. And it was f***ing downright minging patter to begin with. These last few pages have put me off posting. It's that bad. Every cloud. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 This is easily the worst this thread has ever been. And it was fucking downright minging patter to begin with. These last few pages have put me off posting. It's that bad. Every cloud. I can't read you, Richard. You're a beautiful mystery to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts