Alan Pardew

[Parky]

I don't get this counter argument that some long balls are passes and others aren't.  What does it matter?  How does that counter the fact that on average, we've hit 20 less long balls per game in the last 3 months than in the first 3 months.

 

An improvement, for those that don't like long balls/passes.

This is frustrating me too The quality of the long ball doesn't f***ing matter!

 

People are instinctively trying to break it down into 'hopeful' and 'targetted'....Broadly agree that the where raw stats are concerned the intention isn't so important. Sides like Spurs play a lot more long ball than people realise but most of those are bourne from postive posession and 'choices' at key moments of play. Ours generally are more of the 'hopeful' variety is the majority feeling.

This ties in with Pards style of play which is the maj gripe...WBA I'd say are pretty much a long ball team as are Norwich but they do enough of the other stuff so that it doesn't look so bad or desperate - style wise.

 

I think it's that long ball that you are talking about which pisses us fans off. It's the long ball to Cisse who will never ever win a header against a stronger central defender. It's not hard to see that our long balls are just like you said hopeful passing.

 

...and the main reason for that and something we've discussed for 2 yrs is Pards refusal to continue with a 433 (so someone can drop off and come short to recycle play).

 

1 in 5 of our passes are made by a central forward placed midfielder with a 36% accuracy, 1 in 5 of those are to a wide forward player and 40% result in open attacking play in the front 3rd of the pitch. Only Arsenal and Chelsea have better percentages than this, therefore you're wrong and Pardew is just misunderstood.

 

You got a link?

[ChezGiven]

Or more than likely be ignored, just as I was when I pulled him up on his 'Shola's our best option from the bench' rubbish.

Didnt you suggest Anita as an alternative?

 

I thought HF's point was just that we dont have a striker on the bench of a better quality than Shola, hence pointing to squad depth. Shola seems to come on in response to us playing it long, not the other way round. If that is the case then bringing on Anita would be odd.

 

As for your point about how wonderful the arguments have been on here, surely the end of the season, with all the stats, facts and figures to hand is a good time to reflect on whatever has been said before?

[DJ_NUFC]

Is there a reason why the 4-3-3 has been pretty much dumped? If anything, we have players to fit that system now more than ever, with the new signings.

[Guest Dontooner]

Lets keep Pardew for another seven years, he is the best we can hope for anyway.

 

The dropping long ball stats points to the fact we are playing better football and looking alot more dangerous on the attack.

Jonas over involvement in the team (left Back) is helping us to the top of the "Least Goal Conceded Stat"

Shola is a key player and without his contribution we would be in trouble this season..

Tiote is undroppable because he never hides and is great consistently aids the team in attacks...

Cisse have top notch skills and should play on the right as often as possible.

Ba is gone but when he comes back after realizing Pardew was the only manager he loves, he will shell his life out and play in any position Pardew ask of him.

 

 

Let's not ask questions and be grateful for Ashely and Dekka..they are the pay masters..without them the club will ruin it self.

 

 

 

[Guest bimpy474]

I don't get this counter argument that some long balls are passes and others aren't.  What does it matter?  How does that counter the fact that on average, we've hit 20 less long balls per game in the last 3 months than in the first 3 months.

 

An improvement, for those that don't like long balls/passes.

This is frustrating me too The quality of the long ball doesn't fucking matter!

 

This is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard....well done.

[Parky]

Is there a reason why the 4-3-3 has been pretty much dumped? If anything, we have players to fit that system now more than ever, with the new signings.

 

He worries about losing games too much...If that makes sense...We're historically used to attack being the first line of defence..ie we've been spoilt in the recent past. He likes to keep it tight and protect the full backs..This is pretty much the oldskool thinking that has taken root in his head..As you rightly say we have the staff for a decent 433 now especially with Sissoko and Hatem. I really think we need to get rid of Guti.

[Interpolic]

Or more than likely be ignored, just as I was when I pulled him up on his 'Shola's our best option from the bench' rubbish.

Didnt you suggest Anita as an alternative?

 

I thought HF's point was just that we dont have a striker on the bench of a better quality than Shola, hence pointing to squad depth. Shola seems to come on in response to us playing it long, not the other way round. If that is the case then bringing on Anita would be odd.

 

As for your point about how wonderful the arguments have been on here, surely the end of the season, with all the stats, facts and figures to hand is a good time to reflect on whatever has been said before?

 

I find it incredibly farfetched to think that Pardew sees us resorting to long ball and hoys Shola on to utilise it, and I'm amazed you don't. Players panicking and reverting to a style that isn't historically suited to them individually when a goal up or drawing just seems like absolute rubbish to me. It's far more feasible that the instruction comes from the bench.

[Guest bimpy474]

Is there a reason why the 4-3-3 has been pretty much dumped? If anything, we have players to fit that system now more than ever, with the new signings.

 

He worries about losing games too much...If that makes sense...We're historically used to attack being the first line of defence..ie we've been spoilt in the recent past. He likes to keep it tight and protect the full backs..This is pretty much the oldskool thinking that has taken root in his head..As you rightly say we have the staff for a decent 433 now especially with Sissoko and Hatem. I really think we need to get rid of Guti.

 

Worries too much hasn't worked though has it Parky. 67 goals conceded is ridiculous for such a defensive and cautious coach.

[Parky]

Is there a reason why the 4-3-3 has been pretty much dumped? If anything, we have players to fit that system now more than ever, with the new signings.

 

He worries about losing games too much...If that makes sense...We're historically used to attack being the first line of defence..ie we've been spoilt in the recent past. He likes to keep it tight and protect the full backs..This is pretty much the oldskool thinking that has taken root in his head..As you rightly say we have the staff for a decent 433 now especially with Sissoko and Hatem. I really think we need to get rid of Guti.

 

Worries too much hasn't worked though has it Parky. 67 goals conceded is ridiculous for such a defensive and cautious coach.

 

Worrying never works. Football starts and ends with confidence.

[Ryan_Taylor]

A proper 4-3-3 of

 

Debuchy Colo MYM Santon

 

Sissoko Tiote Cabaye

 

HBA Cissé Gouffran

 

Would be bloody brilliant. Shame we'll never see it under current management.

[Guest Slippery Sam]

Is there any specific reason that three Toontastic regulars i.e. HF, Chezgiven & Gemmill have appeared over the hill in the past few days, all arguing the same point?  The point that most on here don't agree with?

[Tiresias]

The reason we conceed so many goals is down to how often we give away possession cheaply, we just cede so much of the play to the opposition any side who can put away chances will have a field day, we let the opposition run at our defense so much they're bound to make mistakes and look poor.

[Kanj]

I'd even love to see Sissoko, Cabaye, Anita or Sissoko, Cabaye, and Marv. I don't even know if we truly need a holding midfielder as much, and if we do - we need to upgrade that on Tiote.

[Guest bimpy474]

Is there a reason why the 4-3-3 has been pretty much dumped? If anything, we have players to fit that system now more than ever, with the new signings.

 

He worries about losing games too much...If that makes sense...We're historically used to attack being the first line of defence..ie we've been spoilt in the recent past. He likes to keep it tight and protect the full backs..This is pretty much the oldskool thinking that has taken root in his head..As you rightly say we have the staff for a decent 433 now especially with Sissoko and Hatem. I really think we need to get rid of Guti.

 

Worries too much hasn't worked though has it Parky. 67 goals conceded is ridiculous for such a defensive and cautious coach.

 

Worrying never works. Football starts and ends with confidence.

 

Indeed, and a manager puts that confidence into the players and their play. Pardew is like a confidence hoover. His constant talking up of the opposition is well stated and does nothing for our teams confidence.

[Guest Dontooner]

Is there any specific reason that three Toontastic regulars i.e. HF, Chezgiven & Gemmill have appeared over the hill in the past few days, all arguing the same point?  The point that most on here don't agree with?

Well bad blood or not its still more entertaining than some of our games.

[Happy Face]

This is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard....well done.

 

So. In October it was clear that we played more long balls than anyone else.

 

Pardew was rightly criticized.

 

In the last 3 months we've played less long balls than all but a few teams. I take that as an improvement.

 

But Pardew is still criticised because even though we use much less long balls, those that we do use are poor quality.

 

Your complaint is not about the quantity of long balls but the quality?  You don't want him to play on the deck necessarily?

[Parky]

'Bad blood'.

[Ronaldo]

A proper 4-3-3 of

 

Debuchy Colo MYM Santon

 

Sissoko Tiote Cabaye

 

HBA Cissé Gouffran

 

Would be bloody brilliant. Shame we'll never see it under current management.

 

It might look good on paper, but there's few goals, no threat from set pieces, Cheick Tiote, and a lack of physicality in CD. We're gonna have to accept that the current squad is a work in progress in need of investment and replacement.

[Guest Dontooner]

A proper 4-3-3 of

 

Debuchy Colo MYM Santon

 

Sissoko Tiote Cabaye

 

HBA Cissé Gouffran

 

Would be bloody brilliant. Shame we'll never see it under current management.

 

It might look good on paper, but there's few goals, no threat from set pieces, Cheick Tiote, and a lack of physicality in CD. We're gonna have to accept that the current squad is a work in progress in need of investment and replacement.

For this team to work, it would need to keep possession very well. Attacking must be the mantra.

It does has goals in it , just not from set pieces though...

[Wullie]

Or more than likely be ignored, just as I was when I pulled him up on his 'Shola's our best option from the bench' rubbish.

Didnt you suggest Anita as an alternative?

 

I thought HF's point was just that we dont have a striker on the bench of a better quality than Shola, hence pointing to squad depth. Shola seems to come on in response to us playing it long, not the other way round. If that is the case then bringing on Anita would be odd.

 

As for your point about how wonderful the arguments have been on here, surely the end of the season, with all the stats, facts and figures to hand is a good time to reflect on whatever has been said before?

 

I find it incredibly farfetched to think that Pardew sees us resorting to long ball and hoys Shola on to utilise it, and I'm amazed you don't. Players panicking and reverting to a style that isn't historically suited to them individually when a goal up or drawing just seems like absolute rubbish to me. It's far more feasible that the instruction comes from the bench.

 

They panic so much that even when the ball is dead and we have a free kick in our own half, they load the box and the keeper aims for Mike Williamson, despite the manager (surely) yelling at them from the touchline to play a short pass and keep the ball moving.

[Mick]

Or more than likely be ignored, just as I was when I pulled him up on his 'Shola's our best option from the bench' rubbish.

Didnt you suggest Anita as an alternative?

 

I thought HF's point was just that we dont have a striker on the bench of a better quality than Shola, hence pointing to squad depth. Shola seems to come on in response to us playing it long, not the other way round. If that is the case then bringing on Anita would be odd.

 

As for your point about how wonderful the arguments have been on here, surely the end of the season, with all the stats, facts and figures to hand is a good time to reflect on whatever has been said before?

 

I would rather see Campbell coming off the bench than Shola who does nothing other than give away fouls or is offside.  Shola is rarely the only forward option on the bench, he's usually the default change and he offers nothing at all, absolutely nothing.

[Spudil]

Is there any specific reason that three Toontastic regulars i.e. HF, Chezgiven & Gemmill have appeared over the hill in the past few days, all arguing the same point?  The point that most on here don't agree with?

 

Jose Bosingwa.

[Flip]

A proper 4-3-3 of

 

Debuchy Colo MYM Santon

 

Sissoko Tiote Cabaye

 

HBA Cissé Gouffran

 

Would be bloody brilliant. Shame we'll never see it under current management.

 

It might look good on paper, but there's few goals, no threat from set pieces, Cheick Tiote, and a lack of physicality in CD. We're gonna have to accept that the current squad is a work in progress in need of investment and replacement.

 

I don't really agree with the first part, I think that team does have goal in it. Cisse, Gouff and Ben Arfa all score goals and Siss and Cabaye can ship in a few as well. I do think we need to strengthen and from what has been seen I do agree that MYM and Colo can't play together.

[Tiresias]

I'd replace Tiote in that team arguably with Marv, with Sissoko and Cabaye doing more defensive work to make up.

 

If you look at Arsenal's team they don't have any out and out DM anymore, just metronomic distributors (and yes their defenders can be farcical but they haven#t conceeded very much this season overall, could be wrong on this imo), Cabaye provides that, Sissoko some muscle to carry ball forward and Marveaux for creativity. Having said that would make me a little nervous defensively, our defense stays so deep so often and don't start pressing the ball till they're nearly on us that's what's causing trouble. We need to nip attacks in the bud up the pitch more.

[Guest bimpy474]

This is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard....well done.

 

So. In October it was clear that we played more long balls than anyone else.

 

Pardew was rightly criticized.

 

In the last 3 months we've played less long balls than all but a few teams. I take that as an improvement.

 

But Pardew is still criticised because even though we use much less long balls, those that we do use are poor quality.

 

Your complaint is not about the quantity of long balls but the quality?  You don't want him to play on the deck necessarily?

 

Less doesn't mean they are any better, and i dispute your stats, stats mean nothing and for to keep using them toward me is not going to work. They are still aimless punts which we dont win. We have a Cisse, so unsuited to a long ball aimed at him it's untrue, but yet we still persisited. Now i want us to play good football, possession football. That doesn't mean all tippy tappy, a mixture. Like i say, which you and your chums seem to be dismissing, a longer pass is fine, now if Andy Carroll say was up top i've no doubt he would turn a aimless long ball into a decent one. But i want us to play short, fast controlled possession football, with lots of movement.

 

Now this is where you have avoided answering, Pardew throughout his career has never got any of his team to do this, so why should he get anymore time. We are more than two years into his reign and our football has got worse and worse. He isn't going to change, Jesus our set pieces tell you all you need to know about his lack of imagination.

 

If he stays, we will continue to play boring, direct, non possession percentage football. Which might be slightly better if we sign a Andy Carroll type suited to it. But i, as someone who wanted him gone over 6 months ago because if there's anything i hate, it's poor football and that mate is exactly what Pardew gives you.