Alan Pardew

[Rich]

I don't think you'll find anyone willing to argue that last season wasn't largely terrible, from start to finish. Seems pointless to be going through it again, but I suppose we did win last night.

 

Happy face claimed "When we were in the top half, before the awful pre Christmas run?  If you won't accept top half standard then he's got no hope."

 

Is it not acceptable that people should educate him?

 

He seems a pretty well educated bloke, to be honest. I'm sure he's well aware of our results and performances from last season, but he may have seen them in a slightly less negative light. I don't know, he'll manage, I think.

 

Top half is the target the club have set Pardew.

 

http://www.statto.com/football/img/progress/ACBAOEALNn

 

For 10 games he was doing what he'd been tasked with, in terms of results.  Only losing to Chelsea and Man U.

 

Then it went to shit for 13 games

 

I thought we played canny shit football as we finished 5th.  But in no hate filled anti-pardew mind could it ever be construed as worthy of the sack.

 

The target was definitely top eight last season, fwiw:

 

Last season knocked the club back a little and resulted in the club revising its expectations for this season. The club's intention last season was to finish in the top eight. Because we finished lower, the club re-evaluated and we want to finish in the top ten this season.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Top 8 versus top 10 is basically a matter of luck though really. As people have said, it's how you end up there that matters.

[Rich]

Top 8 versus top 10 is basically a matter of luck though really. As people have said, it's how you end up there that matters.

 

 

Happy Face's point was that Pardew was doing "what he was tasked with" for 10 games, when in reality it was 1.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Top 8 versus top 10 is basically a matter of luck though really. As people have said, it's how you end up there that matters.

 

Yet, we were never there. Even in the period short period when Happy Face has claimed we were within the club's target for itself. We were never there from the second week onwards. That's not luck at all, that's being not good enough and then getting worse.

[mrmojorisin75]

It's nothing to do with stats.

 

it's everything to do with stats, as stated points and stats disguised awful performances for a long time...some people, even amidst the winning, were able to see the likely direction things would take, others chose to focus solely on numbers and think everything was fine last season - it seemed to come as a shock to them when things got as bad as they did

 

numbers tell us this season is going OK at the moment, and i suppose it is, performances tell us there's as much to be worried about as there is to be happy about

 

oh and as regards meeting his target of 10th, he managed it for 25% of the season then basically...good stats

[TRon]

The top 10 thing's a load of bullshit anyway. What happens if we finish 13th? Is Ashley going to swing the axe? No, he'll say get in...another year of Premier tv money, goody goody gumdrops.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Top 8 versus top 10 is basically a matter of luck though really. As people have said, it's how you end up there that matters.

 

Yet, we were never there. Even in the period short period when Happy Face has claimed we were within the club's target for itself. We were never there from the second week onwards. That's not luck at all, that's being not good enough and then getting worse.

 

Fair enough, all I mean was that (for example) we nearly went down but we could have easily also finished 10th. Same must apply to other league position targets.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Top 8 versus top 10 is basically a matter of luck though really. As people have said, it's how you end up there that matters.

 

Yet, we were never there. Even in the period short period when Happy Face has claimed we were within the club's target for itself. We were never there from the second week onwards. That's not luck at all, that's being not good enough and then getting worse.

 

Fair enough, all I mean was that (for example) we nearly went down but we could have easily also finished 10th. Same must apply to other league position targets.

 

I generally believe that you end up where you deserve. Last season was very tight down the bottom, which obviously meant that we could have finished higher. The point is that we didn't, and rightly so. We finished exactly where our performances deserved, imo.

 

The only time that I've ever been surprised where we've finished (either thinking that it was too high or too low) was when Roeder got us to 7th after Souness was sacked. We were galvanised and almost all of the other teams around us feel apart, Bolton especially.

 

We've deserved everything that we've got , every other season that I've been a fan, imo.

[Happy Face]

It's nothing to do with stats.

 

it's everything to do with stats, as stated points and stats disguised awful performances for a long time...some people, even amidst the winning, were able to see the likely direction things would take, others chose to focus solely on numbers and think everything was fine last season - it seemed to come as a shock to them when things got as bad as they did

 

numbers tell us this season is going OK at the moment, and i suppose it is, performances tell us there's as much to be worried about as there is to be happy about

 

oh and as regards meeting his target of 10th, he managed it for 25% of the season then basically...good stats

 

So now league position is a "meaningless stat" the same as long balls hit and shots from outside the box?

 

See this thread i started over on TT...

 

http://www.toontastic.net/board/topic/31769-whos-had-the-easiest-start/

 

That was October 2011.  It was clear to me our position was not representative of the quality of our football.  We'd had an incredibly easy start and were remarkably injury free.  In the face of much opposition I argued that pardew's brand of football was not going to sustain us.

 

But as the season went on and on and we maintained that position you had to accept that irrespective of performances, we were consistently winning points enough to stay up there.  The league is not a meaningless stat. It's the measure of how we compare with other teams.  As bad as you think you are, the league will tell you if other teams are worse.

 

It was no shock to me that we dropped down the league.  What was a shock was the outrage it caused amongst people had been watching us play all that time.  I am no Pardew fan.  I wasn't then.  Perhaps my consistently low expectations, irrespective of league position is what stops me going apoplectic when we drop to 16th.

 

Targets are set to stretch us.  If they say they want top 8, top half would be fine.  If they say top half, just below would be fine.  In reality, we all know that the ONLY expectation is that we survive.  The entire club, transfer policy, executive & management structure is set up for it. There is no ambition to push on and claim a few extra places for relatively little reward, compared to the TV money.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I get the feeling that Happy Face is currently trying to think of a way to defend those opening matches in a new way.

[Guest bimpy474]

FFS not this shit again, fact is we played awful football wherever we ended up. For this season i hope it's better and tbf has been much better.

 

Trying to bring stats and other assorted turd in, to try to say last season wasn't as bad as everyone thinks is fucking mental. We played shit, end of.

[BottledDog]

FFS not this shit again, fact is we played awful football wherever we ended up. For this season i hope it's better and tbf has been much better.

 

Trying to bring stats and other assorted turd in, to try to say last season wasn't as bad as everyone thinks is fucking mental. We played shit, end of.

 

Not necessarily.

 

 

 

 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

i don't know why you're putting quote marks around "meaningless stat" as it implies i said it, which i didn't HF as you well know

 

and it appears you agree with everything else i've as well HF

[Happy Face]

i don't know why you're putting quote marks around "meaningless stat" as it implies i said it, which i didn't HF as you well know

 

and it appears you agree with everything else i've as well HF

 

It implies the general view of  "I don't need stats to tell me how we've played".

 

Which is absolutely true.

 

 

[Mick]

 

 

So now league position is a "meaningless stat" the same as long balls hit and shots from outside the box?

 

See this thread i started over on TT...

 

http://www.toontastic.net/board/topic/31769-whos-had-the-easiest-start/

 

That was October 2011.  It was clear to me our position was not representative of the quality of our football.  We'd had an incredibly easy start and were remarkably injury free.  In the face of much opposition I argued that pardew's brand of football was not going to sustain us.

 

But as the season went on and on and we maintained that position you had to accept that irrespective of performances, we were consistently winning points enough to stay up there.  The league is not a meaningless stat. It's the measure of how we compare with other teams.  As bad as you think you are, the league will tell you if other teams are worse.

 

It was no shock to me that we dropped down the league.  What was a shock was the outrage it caused amongst people had been watching us play all that time. I am no Pardew fan.  I wasn't then.  Perhaps my consistently low expectations, irrespective of league position is what stops me going apoplectic when we drop to 16th.

 

Targets are set to stretch us.  If they say they want top 8, top half would be fine.  If they say top half, just below would be fine.  In reality, we all know that the ONLY expectation is that we survive.  The entire club, transfer policy, executive & management structure is set up for it. There is no ambition to push on and claim a few extra places for relatively little reward, compared to the TV money.

 

Why do you spend so much time defending him if the bit in bold is true?  Don't reply because of targets the club set him because that's bollocks.  Any target set for him by the club is simply that and has nothing to do with what we as fans want.

[Guest firetotheworks]

He doesn't defend him, he's just cleverer than all of us because he can see that if we get rid of Pardew we'll just get someone worse. So even though he's no Pardew fan, he'll tell you why you should be.

[Guest icemanblue]

He doesn't defend him, he's just cleverer than all of us because he can see that if we get rid of Pardew we'll just get someone worse. So even though he's no Pardew fan, he'll tell you why you should be.

 

The fucking cheek of it.

[BottledDog]

He doesn't defend him, he's just cleverer than all of us because he can see that if we get rid of Pardew we'll just get someone worse. So even though he's no Pardew fan, he'll tell you why you should be.

 

Nar man, he's happy for you to dislike the Pardster. Just do it for the right reasons.

[Guest firetotheworks]

He doesn't defend him, he's just cleverer than all of us because he can see that if we get rid of Pardew we'll just get someone worse. So even though he's no Pardew fan, he'll tell you why you should be.

 

The f***ing cheek of it.

 

"shut up"

[mrmojorisin75]

can you not boil HF's chelp into "he's shit but he's not quite as shit as you lot all make out, and here's why" ?

[Happy Face]

 

 

So now league position is a "meaningless stat" the same as long balls hit and shots from outside the box?

 

See this thread i started over on TT...

 

http://www.toontastic.net/board/topic/31769-whos-had-the-easiest-start/

 

That was October 2011.  It was clear to me our position was not representative of the quality of our football.  We'd had an incredibly easy start and were remarkably injury free.  In the face of much opposition I argued that pardew's brand of football was not going to sustain us.

 

But as the season went on and on and we maintained that position you had to accept that irrespective of performances, we were consistently winning points enough to stay up there.  The league is not a meaningless stat. It's the measure of how we compare with other teams.  As bad as you think you are, the league will tell you if other teams are worse.

 

It was no shock to me that we dropped down the league.  What was a shock was the outrage it caused amongst people had been watching us play all that time. I am no Pardew fan.  I wasn't then.  Perhaps my consistently low expectations, irrespective of league position is what stops me going apoplectic when we drop to 16th.

 

Targets are set to stretch us.  If they say they want top 8, top half would be fine.  If they say top half, just below would be fine.  In reality, we all know that the ONLY expectation is that we survive.  The entire club, transfer policy, executive & management structure is set up for it. There is no ambition to push on and claim a few extra places for relatively little reward, compared to the TV money.

 

Why do you spend so much time defending him if the bit in bold is true?  Don't reply because of targets the club set him because that's bollocks.  Any target set for him by the club is simply that and has nothing to do with what we as fans want.

 

I have only defended what I see as the good things he's done.  It's not black and white.  It would be childish to say "I don't like Pardew so I can't appreciate anything he does".  He isn't pure evil.  He's a mediocre manager and will make many mistakes.  When he takes action to correct it, then it should be applauded.  If you criticise EVERYTHING then you have no critical faculties worthy of the name.

 

I am more inclined to defend than criticise though, as a supporter of the club. I recognise Ashley will do as little as he possibly can to make the job easier, and is incapable of appointing a manager worthy of the club, so I don't see any good for the club coming from negativity.

 

I'm also inclined to defend players and manager the lower we go,  because that's when supporters help their club the most.  Rather than piling on and adding fuel to the fire.  Ring the wagons I say.

[Mick]

He doesn't defend him, he's just cleverer than all of us because he can see that if we get rid of Pardew we'll just get someone worse. So even though he's no Pardew fan, he'll tell you why you should be.

 

I've noticed a few claiming that they don't defend him, while defending him.

[Happy Face]

can you not boil HF's chelp into "he's shit but he's not quite as shit as you lot all make out, and here's why" ?

 

That's about right tbf. 

 

If people slag him off for something I don't see, then I'm likely to question that criticism.  I think it's important to be fair if you're going to criticise someone.

 

The 13 game run with 2 wins last season was where our season went to shit.  I think saying our season was utter shit from start to finish lacks nuance and fails to highlight the pure unadulterated shit of that period in comparison to the adequate form of the 25 games either side of it.

[Happy Face]

He doesn't defend him, he's just cleverer than all of us because he can see that if we get rid of Pardew we'll just get someone worse. So even though he's no Pardew fan, he'll tell you why you should be.

 

I've noticed a few claiming that they don't defend him, while defending him.

 

Are you saying Pardew doesn't have one redeemable feature?  He's learned nothing?  Corrected no mistakes?

 

You expose yourself as an unthinking dimwit if so.

 

There was a bloke sat behind me last night, spent the whole game laying into our players, calling them maggots, bellends, pricks and cocks.  Marveaux and Sammy got it in the neck most.  He was droning on and on constantly about our lack of width.  I am no fan of Sammy or Marveaux, but I would defy anyone to argue that this man was not a fucking cunt, unable to judge a performance as it plays out in front of him.  To appreciate the good and criticise the bad.  Strike a balance.

[TRon]

can you not boil HF's chelp into "he's shit but he's not quite as shit as you lot all make out, and here's why" ?

 

That's about right tbf. 

 

If people slag him off for something I don't see, then I'm likely to question that criticism.  I think it's important to be fair if you're going to criticise someone.

 

The 13 game run with 2 wins last season was where our season went to shit.  I think saying our season was utter shit from start to finish lacks nuance and fails to highlight the pure unadulterated shit of that period in comparison to the adequate form of the 25 games either side of it.

 

Pardew's remit as I see it is to get the results that he should considering the players available to him. So if we get beat off Man City I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it, but when we lose to teams like Hull then I am going to feel something's wrong (although obviously every team will have some surprise defeats). You can argue that Ashley hasn't backed him, but he's still got a better squad of players available to him than all the rest bar the top 6/7 clubs. So the criticism he gets here is usually justified IMO.