Alan Pardew

[JH]

I've said it once and I'll again - you play your best players from the start, not from the bench.

 

Staying tight for 70 minutes and chucking your attacking players on with 20 minutes to go isn't good tactics or man management, it's cowardice from someone who is scared to lose.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

A post about knee-jerk reactions to wins followed by a post about how Sunderland have turned things around? Strange.

[mrmojorisin75]

I'll just point it out now to quote it in the future.

 

The exact people who now brush problems like HBA not being in the team  under the carpet , because we won the games in question, are the same people who brushed all of the problems in the 5th place  season under the carpet because we were winning games then for the most part

 

It's as if football is so simple to these people that if you win/ are winning everything is pretty much 100% right as rain. 

 

So we've won two very good games with a hard working, plucky 4-4-2 preforming exactly the same way as we did in the season where we finished 5th. Just like then when the football was clearly not sustainable medium/long term,  it is not now.

 

Shola Ameobi and Obertan getting minutes over HBA? Come on.

 

If you can't see the problems with getting excited over these two wins after witnessing the last two seasons unfold, I feel for ya bro.

 

If you do see the problems and are just hoping these issues will be addressed then fair enough, but at this point it's just hope because despite AP winning two admittedly, very tough games - the same problems that have always been there are still there.

 

 

Ugh. Fucking sanctimonious drivel. 'Bro' in there, too. #legend

 

Nothing to do with his post tbh. Why don't you try to discuss the very valid points he makes?

[TRon]

A post about knee-jerk reactions to wins followed by a post about how Sunderland have turned things around? Strange.

 

If you read any of my previous posts about Poyet you'd know it's not that strange at all.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

A post about knee-jerk reactions to wins followed by a post about how Sunderland have turned things around? Strange.

 

If you read any of my previous posts about Poyet you'd know it's not that strange at all.

 

I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of people's previous posts I'm afraid.

 

Even if you rate Poyet, which I guess is what you mean, surely the point still stands? The signs are in the right direction but he's proved absolutely nothing yet. I could just as easily say I rate Pardew and Spurs/Chelsea is proof that I was right.

[Hanshithispantz]

I've said it once and I'll again - you play your best players from the start, not from the bench.

 

Staying tight for 70 minutes and chucking your attacking players on with 20 minutes to go isn't good tactics or man management, it's cowardice from someone who is scared to lose.

You play your best team, not your best individuals.

 

The vast majority of managers in world football would include HBA in their best team over Shola like

 

Where would Tony Pulis' Stoke be if they didn't play 4 shite centre backs and fucking Rory Delap for about 3 or 4 seasons? You could put all the quality you want in that side but it wouldn't be fit for purpose.

[JH]

Shola Ameobi and Obertan getting minutes over HBA? Come on.

 

Especially when the logic doesn't make sense. Obertan was brought on over HBA to help protect the left side and it actually ended up weakening us.

 

In that instance, there was literally no excuse for not bringing on Ben Arfa.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Shola Ameobi and Obertan getting minutes over HBA? Come on.

 

Especially when the logic doesn't make sense. Obertan was brought on over HBA to help protect the left side and it actually ended up weakening us.

 

In that instance, there was literally no excuse for not bringing on Ben Arfa.

 

Wasn't Obertan just brought on because he runs around a lot and threatens (sort of) on the break?

 

I love HBA more than anyone but I don't think it really matters that Obertan was brought on in this specific situation. You know that it doesn't mean Pardew thinks he's better than Ben Arfa.

[Spudil]

 

I think you're massively insulting peoples' intelligence there TBH. Not much that's been said about our problems or lack of them is motivated by a couple of wins, just like everything isn't the apocalypse after a couple of defeats.

 

OK but feel free to say "OK so the football was not sustainable in the season we finished 5th but the winning formula we've seen against Spurs and Chelsea is different because of X"

 

To me it looks more or less the same even player by player : Gouff for Jonas - very similar swap. Ameobi/Best. Sissoko/Obertan - fulfilling the same role. Remy/Ba ect.

 

Just sayin'

[Mole_Toonfan]

Hold on didn't Sunderland lose to Hull a week ago? because they beat a team they seemingly always beat doesn't mean they have suddenly turned a corner.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

 

I think you're massively insulting peoples' intelligence there TBH. Not much that's been said about our problems or lack of them is motivated by a couple of wins, just like everything isn't the apocalypse after a couple of defeats.

 

OK but feel free to say "OK so the football was not sustainable in the season we finished 5th but the winning formula we've seen against Spurs and Chelsea is different because of X"

 

To me it looks more or less the same even player by player : Gouff for Jonas - very similar swap. Ameobi/Best. Sissoko/Obertan - fulfilling the same role. Remy/Ba ect.

 

Just sayin'

 

All I would claim is that we found an approach we thought gave us the best chance of beating those two sides and it worked. It wouldn't work every time, but then neither would opening up and attacking them.  I don't draw any sweeping conclusions about our season as a whole. I agree that against lesser sides we should go for it more.

 

To me it seems like the negative opinions about Pardew have almost been projected onto these two results and made them seem worse than they actually are. Like they are proof of Pardew's "unsustainable" approach (without suggesting a better one) instead of two great organised wins against good sides.

 

Aye, everyone would rather HBA was playing every week and ripping up the league. But he wasn't doing that, so he's come out of the team for a while. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Hold on didn't Sunderland lose to Hull a week ago? because they beat a team they seemingly always beat doesn't mean they have suddenly turned a corner.

 

Exactly.

[TRon]

A post about knee-jerk reactions to wins followed by a post about how Sunderland have turned things around? Strange.

 

If you read any of my previous posts about Poyet you'd know it's not that strange at all.

 

I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of people's previous posts I'm afraid.

 

Even if you rate Poyet, which I guess is what you mean, surely the point still stands? The signs are in the right direction but he's proved absolutely nothing yet. I could just as easily say I rate Pardew and Spurs/Chelsea is proof that I was right.

 

No one is saying who is right and who is wrong based on a couple of results, that would be pretty pointless. Poyet might still take Sunderland down yet, but I thought a few months back that he would be a good fit for us because his type of football would fit our more technical players. That goes beyond graphs, stats or a couple of unexpected wins.

 

Now if the Pardites really believe he's the man to take us forward, why not put forward the reasons why? Unless you think good man management will win us games every time. The only stuff they come up with is "FFS would you prefer JFK in charge??"

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The simple fact is that what we are doing is not sustainable at all. This is the ceiling for Pardew. The 4-4-2/Shola functioning team,try to nick a goal then ride our luck and hope for the best from individuals. It is reminiscent of the 5th season and thats great when you get a lot of things going your way. That will not happen again and it can easily turn into last season. Its not good enough.

 

Do you think he'll keep trying this against everyone in every situation though? If he does then we can revisit this argument obviously.

[Guest icemanblue]

A post about knee-jerk reactions to wins followed by a post about how Sunderland have turned things around? Strange.

 

If you read any of my previous posts about Poyet you'd know it's not that strange at all.

 

I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of people's previous posts I'm afraid.

 

Even if you rate Poyet, which I guess is what you mean, surely the point still stands? The signs are in the right direction but he's proved absolutely nothing yet. I could just as easily say I rate Pardew and Spurs/Chelsea is proof that I was right.

 

No one is saying who is right and who is wrong based on a couple of results, that would be pretty pointless. Poyet might still take Sunderland down yet, but I thought a few months back that he would be a good fit for us because his type of football would fit our more technical players. That goes beyond graphs, stats or a couple of unexpected wins.

 

Now if the Pardites really believe he's the man to take us forward, why not put forward the reasons why? Unless you think good man management will win us games every time. The only stuff they come up with is "FFS would you prefer JFK in charge??"

 

 

 

No one is a fucking 'Pardite', nor are they claiming he is the man to take us forward.

[mrmojorisin75]

Aye, everyone would rather HBA was playing every week and ripping up the league. But he wasn't doing that, so he's come out of the team for a while. 

 

isn't this the crux?  the fact that he probably should be but is being 'prevented' from doing so by our shit manager, his terrible tactics and being left out of the team for gabriel obertan?

 

that's my view on the HBA thing, players don't perform in isolation to what's going on around them, especially not flair players like HBA

[TRon]

A post about knee-jerk reactions to wins followed by a post about how Sunderland have turned things around? Strange.

 

If you read any of my previous posts about Poyet you'd know it's not that strange at all.

 

I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of people's previous posts I'm afraid.

 

Even if you rate Poyet, which I guess is what you mean, surely the point still stands? The signs are in the right direction but he's proved absolutely nothing yet. I could just as easily say I rate Pardew and Spurs/Chelsea is proof that I was right.

 

No one is saying who is right and who is wrong based on a couple of results, that would be pretty pointless. Poyet might still take Sunderland down yet, but I thought a few months back that he would be a good fit for us because his type of football would fit our more technical players. That goes beyond graphs, stats or a couple of unexpected wins.

 

Now if the Pardites really believe he's the man to take us forward, why not put forward the reasons why? Unless you think good man management will win us games every time. The only stuff they come up with is "FFS would you prefer JFK in charge??"

 

 

 

No one is a fucking 'Pardite', nor are they claiming he is the man to take us forward.

 

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. He's shit.

[Guest icemanblue]

Aye, everyone would rather HBA was playing every week and ripping up the league. But he wasn't doing that, so he's come out of the team for a while. 

 

isn't this the crux?  the fact that he probably should be but is being 'prevented' from doing so by our shit manager, his terrible tactics and being left out of the team for gabriel obertan?

 

that's my view on the HBA thing, players don't perform in isolation to what's going on around them, especially not flair players like HBA

 

So, this mercurial talent, with a vast history of inconsistency, only ever plays badly because of his manager. How does he ever play well?

[Guest icemanblue]

A post about knee-jerk reactions to wins followed by a post about how Sunderland have turned things around? Strange.

 

If you read any of my previous posts about Poyet you'd know it's not that strange at all.

 

I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of people's previous posts I'm afraid.

 

Even if you rate Poyet, which I guess is what you mean, surely the point still stands? The signs are in the right direction but he's proved absolutely nothing yet. I could just as easily say I rate Pardew and Spurs/Chelsea is proof that I was right.

 

No one is saying who is right and who is wrong based on a couple of results, that would be pretty pointless. Poyet might still take Sunderland down yet, but I thought a few months back that he would be a good fit for us because his type of football would fit our more technical players. That goes beyond graphs, stats or a couple of unexpected wins.

 

Now if the Pardites really believe he's the man to take us forward, why not put forward the reasons why? Unless you think good man management will win us games every time. The only stuff they come up with is "FFS would you prefer JFK in charge??"

 

 

 

No one is a fucking 'Pardite', nor are they claiming he is the man to take us forward.

 

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. He's shit.

 

Fucking strange way to do it, like.

[mrmojorisin75]

No one is a fucking 'Pardite', nor are they claiming he is the man to take us forward.

 

i don't think anyone is staunchly anti-pardew either, to the point of being stubborn about the man - spudil has made very valid points about the last 2 games tbh but they're just glossed over for some reason

 

we're analysing 2 good results and comparing that with our previous performances under pardew, some people are ignoring the validity of the concerns (as they did  when we were almost relegated) and choosing to shout it down as negativity

 

you improve at anything by looking at where it is you can improve, not by saying "that was mint eh" and putting your fucking feet up

[mrmojorisin75]

Aye, everyone would rather HBA was playing every week and ripping up the league. But he wasn't doing that, so he's come out of the team for a while. 

 

isn't this the crux?  the fact that he probably should be but is being 'prevented' from doing so by our shit manager, his terrible tactics and being left out of the team for gabriel obertan?

 

that's my view on the HBA thing, players don't perform in isolation to what's going on around them, especially not flair players like HBA

 

So, this mercurial talent, with a vast history of inconsistency, only ever plays badly because of his manager. How does he ever play well?

 

well i've already addressed this haven't i?  but you know that...his age, apparent focus, team ethic and of course the fact that there's a world cup coming suggest to me the lad had what it takes to succeed now where in his younger years he was maybe more of a little arsehole holding himself back

 

i'll refer you to the hull game again....he's crowded out by 2-3 everytime he gets the ball, that's where your manager has to come in and make changes to either open up the space for him or use his being crowded out to open up the game for the team

 

our manager did neither and rarely does

[Guest icemanblue]

Aye, everyone would rather HBA was playing every week and ripping up the league. But he wasn't doing that, so he's come out of the team for a while. 

 

isn't this the crux?  the fact that he probably should be but is being 'prevented' from doing so by our shit manager, his terrible tactics and being left out of the team for gabriel obertan?

 

that's my view on the HBA thing, players don't perform in isolation to what's going on around them, especially not flair players like HBA

 

So, this mercurial talent, with a vast history of inconsistency, only ever plays badly because of his manager. How does he ever play well?

 

well i've already addressed this haven't i?  but you know that...his age, apparent focus, team ethic and of course the fact that there's a world cup coming suggest to me the lad had what it takes to succeed now where in his younger years he was maybe more of a little arsehole holding himself back

 

i'll refer you to the hull game again....he's crowded out by 2-3 everytime he gets the ball, that's where your manager has to come in and make changes to either open up the space for him or use his being crowded out to open up the game for the team

 

our manager did neither and rarely does

 

He was shite against Hull, but he wasn't the only one. He'd been unplayable in the games before it, under a similar amount of pressure from the opposition. People haven't suddenly realised that he's quite good this season. Players can have bad games, and experience poor form. As long as he comes back from that (in a period where we went on to record fantastic results), what's the problem?

[DJ_NUFC]

Amazing how people can swear five sheets to the wind and call Pardew names but I get called out for calling him an unintelligent and talentless manager

 

Anyways, we've done this debate to death. We have some very fickle, reactionary fans who think 2 wins doth a summer make, as Cantona would say, whereas those of us who can see through these retarded tactics and team selection can see a run of defeats in the not-too-distant future, in line with the very evident past that shows the same pattern.

 

I hope, like everyone here, that my view is wrong, and we now kick on and finish 5th, and Pardew suddenly makes a mockery of us all when Shola start 'ripping up the league' and Obertan starts becoming Leo fucking Messi, but so far all I see is two positions wasted with those two on, while our most talented player rots on the bench.

[Yorkie]

Providing he re-enters the team in a position that he favours, I can see Ben Arfa's recent withdrawal having a positive effect on him. It's a bit of a cliche, but knowing that there's competition for places and no guaranteed starting berth, is usually helpful to players. I would like to say the same for Cisse as well, but I think he's lost a lot of interest. He certainly plays that way, anyway.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see quite a re-shuffle against Norwich, starting with Debuchy's suspension. That wouldn't be such a bad thing - I don't think there's any longevity to the system we've had set up in the previous two matches. Those were tactics very much centred on containing the opposition; not a terrible strategy (clearly) when the onus is on the other team. I hope we'll employ a more expansive and attacking set-up at home to Norwich, which will no doubt include Ben Arfa.

[mrmojorisin75]

Aye, everyone would rather HBA was playing every week and ripping up the league. But he wasn't doing that, so he's come out of the team for a while. 

 

isn't this the crux?  the fact that he probably should be but is being 'prevented' from doing so by our shit manager, his terrible tactics and being left out of the team for gabriel obertan?

 

that's my view on the HBA thing, players don't perform in isolation to what's going on around them, especially not flair players like HBA

 

So, this mercurial talent, with a vast history of inconsistency, only ever plays badly because of his manager. How does he ever play well?

 

well i've already addressed this haven't i?  but you know that...his age, apparent focus, team ethic and of course the fact that there's a world cup coming suggest to me the lad had what it takes to succeed now where in his younger years he was maybe more of a little arsehole holding himself back

 

i'll refer you to the hull game again....he's crowded out by 2-3 everytime he gets the ball, that's where your manager has to come in and make changes to either open up the space for him or use his being crowded out to open up the game for the team

 

our manager did neither and rarely does

 

He was shite against Hull, but he wasn't the only one. He'd been unplayable in the games before it, under a similar amount of pressure from the opposition. People haven't suddenly realised that he's quite good this season. Players can have bad games, and experience poor form. As long as he comes back from that (in a period where we went on to record fantastic results), what's the problem?

 

liverpool he was deployed as some sort of fucking striker playing with his back to goal man   that's not a loss in form nor is having to face up to an entire hull defence and not being able to beat them

 

prior hull he'd ripped villa to shreds and was under nowhere near the same pressure he was vs hull and liverpool

 

you seem to take his performances in total isolation from the team and the tactical approach that the manager employs for some reason, that doesn't make sense

 

cue "i didn't say that, would never say that" type bollocks...you're saying it by implication in failing to link his "drop" in performance (right at the time he was in amazing form mind ) with anything that the other team or his own manager might do