mrmojorisin75 Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, TRon said: I appreciate you are closer to the action than we are, but while the football has been much better than under Mourinho, it does seem like the main difference has been the impact of players like Fernandes and Cavani. Without them, not sure the results would look quite so good. I just get the feeling that while Ole will earn goodwill in allowing Man U to express themselves and let players do their thing, ultimately he's not going to win significant silverware. Not sure he'll have the sort of personality to instill the discipline required to forge champions. I don't think there's any contradiction here with what Froggy is saying like, and while the above is true has to be balanced with the knowledge he's having to utilise a fair degree of shite that's simply not good enough so 2nd has to be seen as progress and an achievement under those circumstances imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 1 hour ago, astraguy said: If ole got sacked now,name me a top side that would go for him ? I Sunderland County fc ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 1 hour ago, mrmojorisin75 said: I don't think there's any contradiction here with what Froggy is saying like, and while the above is true has to be balanced with the knowledge he's having to utilise a fair degree of shite that's simply not good enough so 2nd has to be seen as progress and an achievement under those circumstances imo. Yep, I can agree there's been progress, just don't think he's going to be the type to build a trophy winning team. That final step is sometimes what separates the top managers from the rest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 8 minutes ago, TRon said: Yep, I can agree there's been progress, just don't think he's going to be the type to build a trophy winning team. That final step is sometimes what separates the top managers from the rest. I agree, I just don't see it myself either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mofo Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 @Froggy Do you think the majority of Mun U fans want Solskjaer out? All my mates who support Manu U are happy with what he is doing (trying to do....) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dazzanufc1892 Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 The Ole job is an interesting one. As somebody (I probably shouldn't admit this) who goes to a number of united games each year he has exceeded expectations year after year, but the fact he has no previous makes him a tricky proposition. He came in and steadied the ship which was hugely important. He also understand the club and its heritage and has gone to pretty big lengths to try and bring this back. Under Ole the clubs feel has returned which was the most monumental job of them all. He has also seen the club revert to its typical signings and not going all out for stars who were never "United Players" nor signings, e.g. Neymar, Ramos, Muller. He has overseen probably the most successful period of recruitment since AF left. He has also managed to play a united style of football with players who probably shouldn't be able to play it, most notably Fred. He also has seen the club finish higher each season in the league. When he came in this was pretty much what every wanted to see and feel. Considering how the club was and how it is now, he deserves one more year, despite the horrendous failings on Wednesday night in relation to subs and also the handling of Van De Beek. The league progression has been impressive but hes now put himself in the firing line by finishing second and reaching a final as the only progression left in those is to win the league a European trophy. Got to remember how he has out-thought pep amongst others in the last couple of years too. Another thing is a number of managers achieve success without winning in the first few years as they've built a base that has shown progression and has been invested upon. To get 3 years in with consistent growth and back out would be a calamity. NUFC were the prime example of this. Sir Bob never won anything but our growth year on year under him was staggering. The season we stopped backing the growth with only the free signing of Bowyer was our undoing. MUFC have momentum of sorts under Ole and the league positions and results in a number of games show it. If we had seen NUFC steadily rise under Bruce and start playing the kind of football we were used to under Sir Bob or Keegan, albeit in flashes, I think we would also be wrong to want rid, alas, we haven't. MUFC aren't MUFC of '95 - '12. Those internal beliefs were ripped our by Moyes, sold by van gaal (see Evans, fletcher and welbeck) and replaced by petulance with Jose. The biggest thing Ole has done is rebuild them slowly, the fruits of that wont be seen for a few years yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astraguy Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 38 minutes ago, Ben said: Sunderland County fc ? I did think of Sunderland they love taking from man u Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbthree3 Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Spaceman Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 Poor Celtic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 Allegri back at Juventus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalmintheChaos Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 Who does Howe think he is spent a fortune to relegate Bournemouth! Celtic is as good as he can expect, probably better than he could hope for to be honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, CalmintheChaos said: Who does Howe think he is spent a fortune to relegate Bournemouth! Celtic is as good as he can expect, probably better than he could hope for to be honest. They are miles behind rangers already. Massive rebuilding job half the players want to leave. We don’t know why he rejected it knowing Celtic he’s probably been given a £2m transfer budget. he was obviously keen on the job or he wouldn’t have been talking for so long Edited May 28, 2021 by gdm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 imagine having free reign in a domestic league for a decade and leaving yourself fucked like that at the end of it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 38 minutes ago, CalmintheChaos said: Who does Howe think he is spent a fortune to relegate Bournemouth! Celtic is as good as he can expect, probably better than he could hope for to be honest. Mad take given where he got them from, what he had to do to the squad to give them a sniff of staying up, then kept them year for longer than they’d have expected while playing nice football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 To take a club that had spent essentially its entire existence in the 3rd and 4th tiers of English football from bottom of the 4th tier on -17 points to established Premier League safety for several seasons, in the space of about six years, is one of English football's greatest ever achievements. And then because that tiny club then got relegated again eventually, the manager becomes a laughing stock to some people. Really gets my goat, and shows how in thrall some people are to the "Premier League/Sky/Big 6 etc" narrative that they claim to hate. Basically unless you're one of the world's best managers, in charge of a club with the resources to win everything all the time, you're shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 Celtic are a fantastic club, same goes for Rangers, Scotland is a wonderful country, but the Scottish Premier league because of it's smaller size just doesn't have the pull of the EPL. When you know only one of two clubs will win the title, both from the same city, then it takes a bit of the excitement out of it. While Celtic would undoubtedly be an exciting prospect for a manager, if you can get a job at a decent PL club instead, a lot of managers will prefer that option. Howe's standing is high enough you would expect he could get a decent offer soon enough if he doesn't take the Celtic job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 I backed Domenec Torrent in February for the Celtic job but Skybet settled it as a loser last week Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 Totally understand why Howe isn't wanting to take that job unless there's a really clear direction and massive transfer plans. Sellick are a million miles behind Rangers and unless he closes the gap in a couple of seasons, which is a hell of a lot easier said than done, his stock could fall rapidly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 Jack Ross linked now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 4 hours ago, mofo said: @Froggy Do you think the majority of Mun U fans want Solskjaer out? All my mates who support Manu U are happy with what he is doing (trying to do....) Nobody wants him out. Everyone I know is happy with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collage Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 4 hours ago, astraguy said: I did think of Sunderland they love taking from man u Makes sense. Two awful, awful clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgk_lfc Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Wullie said: To take a club that had spent essentially its entire existence in the 3rd and 4th tiers of English football from bottom of the 4th tier on -17 points to established Premier League safety for several seasons, in the space of about six years, is one of English football's greatest ever achievements. And then because that tiny club then got relegated again eventually, the manager becomes a laughing stock to some people. Really gets my goat, and shows how in thrall some people are to the "Premier League/Sky/Big 6 etc" narrative that they claim to hate. Basically unless you're one of the world's best managers, in charge of a club with the resources to win everything all the time, you're shit. Here, people evaluate and label managers on outcomes rather than looking at the context. Poch and Rodgers = bottler. Klopp = bottler till May 2019, No longer a bottler post May 2019. Nobody (pundits, media, fans, owners) wants to dig deeper and understand the conditions under which certain things were achieved and then rate a manager. For example, Rafa. Dismissed from Real Valladolid after a run of 2 wins in 23 games. Dismissed from Osasuna after 1 win in 9 games in second division. Extramudara, got them promoted to La liga but got relegated in first year. Got Tenerife promoted to La Liga. Then he was offered the Valencia job who had just lost the CL final. In the first press conference, he told "You come from the Champions League final and I come from Segunda División, but humbly I think I have tools to make you improve" and that was widely applauded in Spain. In England, he would not have been offered a job in the championship based on his Real Valladolid performance. He would have been laughed out by the pundits here - Gray, Keys, Neville, Carragher - for making that statement. "Hahaha, gets fired from multiple jobs in the second division and he thinks he can teach Ayala to be a better defender". There are many reasons why Italy, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Netherland seem to produce quality managers at a regular frequency. I think one of the reason is that the public, pundits, owners are able to identify a quality coaching job when they see one without looking at the results and back them. Regarding Howe, I think he is a quality coach with a style of play which fits very well the ethos of a progressive club. I like his Bournemouth style more than early Rodgers (and I really rate Rodgers). I felt that Rodgers Swansea and early LFC teams, sometimes passed for the sake of passing, so that he can gloat about passing statistics in the press conference. I feel Howe's team pass with more purpose. And maybe his transfers were not good. But it is not like players were queuing up to play for Bournemouth. Even if he has not got an eye for a player, I don't think it will be a problem. Lot of clubs - LFC, Brentford, Leicester, Wolves- have moved onto a DOF model where the manager focuses on coaching and tactics only. I am confident more will adopt that model. He will excel in that model where he can just focus on coaching and player improvement. Even if he fails elsewhere (I don't think that's likely), I would rather take a chance on someone like Howe, rather than keep giving PFMs jobs constantly. And that still will not diminish his achievements at Bournemouth as one of English football's greatest ever achievements by an inch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Wullie said: To take a club that had spent essentially its entire existence in the 3rd and 4th tiers of English football from bottom of the 4th tier on -17 points to established Premier League safety for several seasons, in the space of about six years, is one of English football's greatest ever achievements. And then because that tiny club then got relegated again eventually, the manager becomes a laughing stock to some people. Really gets my goat, and shows how in thrall some people are to the "Premier League/Sky/Big 6 etc" narrative that they claim to hate. Basically unless you're one of the world's best managers, in charge of a club with the resources to win everything all the time, you're shit. It is fairly unbelievable, until you realise @Tubestationatmidnightposted it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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