The Managerial Merry Go Round™

[Manxst]

But SBR ‘failed’ Fulham and then got a job at Ipswich. OGS failed at Cardiff (and possibly did ok at a second rate league with Molde) but then walked into the ‘biggest’ job in the world bar none, allegedly.

[joeyt]

Exactly, I thought it was pretty obvious and goes without saying that going from Norway to Man Utd is a lot different to SBR situation

[Kaizero]

But SBR ‘failed’ Fulham and then got a job at Ipswich. OGS failed at Cardiff (and possibly did ok at a second rate league with Molde) but then walked into the ‘biggest’ job in the world bar none, allegedly.

 

He didn't walk into it, he played for the club long enough to get a testimonial and did well with their reserves in his first managerial role. He's got honors to his name in a league where the team he managed never had won before and it's been notoriously hard to topple a thirty year winning juggernaut and got a team into Europe that had no right to be there, and won the group stage ahead of Ajax, Celtic and Fenerbache. He knows the club, culture and players and the owners clearly wanted to stop a rot.

 

He had tons more rights to that job than Shearer ever has to the manager job with us, and we're the historically eight biggest club in England. Shearer had no coaching badges and was appointed to save us from relegation. Why is it understandable and defendable for us to appoint Shearer, but not for Man Utd to appoint OGS when their club and club culture had been rotting from the inside out after the departure of Ferguson?

 

Keegan and SBR have been our best and most appreciated managers, I believe a lot stems from them actually knowing NUFC and the club and fan culture. As an NUFC fan that lived through SBR and Keegan II, I can't in no way say I don't understand why Man Utd fans support OGS and his appointment. I long for a manager that lives and breathes NUFC.

 

I'm not saying I believe he should have gotten the job over perhaps more qualified managers, but someone saying it's not understandable why he got it or why Man Utd supporters back him is hard for me to grasp.

[Kaizero]

Exactly, I thought it was pretty obvious and goes without saying that going from Norway to Man Utd is a lot different to SBR situation

 

It does not, please do actually counter my points rather than state opinion as fact. I am open to changing my mind. At this point there's been no actual counter-arguments.

[triggs]

Managers get jobs they aren't qualified for all the time tbf

[Collage]

The arguments against him are idiotic and fueled by dislike/emotion rather than objective stats and facts, which I dislike more than I dislike OGS.

 

No. The Man U job is one of the top 3-5 in football. David Moyes shouldn’t have gotten it, he wasn’t qualified. The same goes for Solskjaer.

 

Shearer took over from Joe Kinnear And we knew that was the road we were heading down again. Of course we wanted Shearer to stay. Not comparable.

 

Absolutely comparable. As much as it disgusts me to say it, Joe Kinnear was on paper much more qualified than Alan Shearer to manage Newcastle United if you look at their managerial history and not their attachment to any one club. Shearer wasn't even a manager at the time, what would your opinion be if Gary Lineker was the one appointed and not Shearer? Would you have wanted Lineker to get the job, or stay? Jaime Redknapp?

 

Pochettino is essentially just as qualified on paper for the Man Utd job as Moyes was. It's a bit of a double standard if you say Moyes shouldn't have gotten the job, yet you think Pochettino should get it when you look at their managerial history up until the point Moyes took over Man Utd, or Pochettino now if he took over tomorrow. Neither have major honors, and their biggest achievements have been building a club that didn't compete much into a team that could compete.

 

The Barcelona job is perhaps the biggest job in football, that went to a reserve team manager.

 

In the end, the manager needs to be a proper fit for a club.

 

Look, if you think Mourinho to OGS and Kinnear to Shearer is a good comparison, there’s nothing more I can say really. It’s just ridiculous.

 

I’d take Lineker or Redknapp over Kinnear, yes. I’d take pretty much anybody over him. How is this relevant?

 

I haven’t mentioned Pochettino.

[Kaizero]

Exactly, I thought it was pretty obvious and goes without saying that going from Norway to Man Utd is a lot different to SBR situation

 

It does not, please do actually counter my points rather than state opinion as fact. I am open to changing my mind. At this point there's been no actual counter-arguments.

 

Fine I'll counter it. Jobs at clubs like Manchester United are usually reserved for elite pedigree managers, thats how big clubs stay big, they appoint the best. You're talking about a club that has expectations to win the PL, season in, season out. Yes they havent been near it for a while but thats not the point. Clubs going into relegtaion (Us) don't appoint elite managers, as evidenced by JFK, so having Shearer come in is not really a big stretch or out of the norm. So it is pretty different in almost every way you look at it. If say Fulham had appointed OGS it wouldn't seem weird at all.

 

Explain appointments such as Arsene Wenger (Arsenal), Pep Guardiola (Barcelona), Tito Villanueva (Barcelona), Frank Lampard (Chelsea), Roberto di Matteo (Chelsea), Zinedine Zidane (Real Madrid), Bernd Schuster (Real Madrid), Juande Ramos (Real Madrid), David Moyes (Manchester United), Andre Villas-Boas (Chelsea), Antonio Conte (Juventus)... I can go on, what makes OGS to Man Utd different? Some of these have less honors and experience to their name than OGS did? Why didn't Barca or Real fans throw their toys out of the pram when they appointed Pep or Zidane since top clubs only appoint already established top managers and attachment to club or experience in their reserves or youth levels have nothing to say? Obviously it would be extremely weird if Man City appointed Pep directly from Barcas B-Team before he got the Barca job, he has no attachment to the club and no honors as a manager that should equate him being given that job. When he was given the Barca job, it was not weird, due to his actual attachment to the club. Same goes for Zidane coming in from the Castilla job.

 

Would it be out of the norm if we at the time we appointed Shearer, appointed Lineker instead? Attachment to the club is my argument, of course we should understand why Man Utd want OGS as their manager.

[Kaizero]

The arguments against him are idiotic and fueled by dislike/emotion rather than objective stats and facts, which I dislike more than I dislike OGS.

 

No. The Man U job is one of the top 3-5 in football. David Moyes shouldn’t have gotten it, he wasn’t qualified. The same goes for Solskjaer.

 

Shearer took over from Joe Kinnear And we knew that was the road we were heading down again. Of course we wanted Shearer to stay. Not comparable.

 

Absolutely comparable. As much as it disgusts me to say it, Joe Kinnear was on paper much more qualified than Alan Shearer to manage Newcastle United if you look at their managerial history and not their attachment to any one club. Shearer wasn't even a manager at the time, what would your opinion be if Gary Lineker was the one appointed and not Shearer? Would you have wanted Lineker to get the job, or stay? Jaime Redknapp?

 

Pochettino is essentially just as qualified on paper for the Man Utd job as Moyes was. It's a bit of a double standard if you say Moyes shouldn't have gotten the job, yet you think Pochettino should get it when you look at their managerial history up until the point Moyes took over Man Utd, or Pochettino now if he took over tomorrow. Neither have major honors, and their biggest achievements have been building a club that didn't compete much into a team that could compete.

 

The Barcelona job is perhaps the biggest job in football, that went to a reserve team manager.

 

In the end, the manager needs to be a proper fit for a club.

 

Look, if you think Mourinho to OGS and Kinnear to Shearer is a good comparison, there’s nothing more I can say really. It’s just ridiculous.

 

I’d take Lineker or Redknapp over Kinnear, yes. I’d take pretty much anybody over him. How is this relevant?

 

I haven’t mentioned Pochettino.

 

You're (I assume) intentionally misinterpreting my comparisons. Zidane following Benitez then? Why is that different to OGS following Mourinho? We as NUFC fans inherently dislike OGS due to his horrid behavior against us. We don't have that dislike for Zidane, for instance.

 

It's not over Kinnear, it's how you'd react if they were appointed following Kinnear (and not Shearer). You'd naturally would have wanted us to appoint a manager with experience, not a pundit. Yet, due to us loving Shearer, we welcomed him as a savior, when he did not even have any coaching badges and supported him - yet say OGS shouldn't be at Man Utd when he's more qualified for the Man Utd job than Shearer was for the NUFC job. We'd be absolutely livid if they'd appointed Lineker or Jaime Redknapp, yet om paper they're just as qualified as Shearer with their main jobs since they retired being pundits.

 

I brought up Pochettino to make a new point and comparison to back my original point in our discussion.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

If you forget about “THIS IS MAN UTD” OGS has done more than a very good job, but that’s the problem. Either for the club or for the fans to accept that this isn’t the same Man Utd/same thing.

[joeyt]

You can't see how Man Utd appointing Moyes and Chelsea appointing AVB is different to OGS getting the gig full time?

[Kaizero]

You can't see how Man Utd appointing Moyes and Chelsea appointing AVB is different to OGS getting the gig full time?

 

Before we continue, I'd love to know if you honestly can't understand why Man Utd fans want OGS and support him and why some would rather have him than Poch at this stage. Because, if that is inconceivable after all this, there's not really a purpose to continuing a discussion. It's obvious, and as an NUFC fan it should be even more obvious given how we worship our legends.

 

That said, every managerial appointment is different. AVB to Chelsea is in fact very comparable to OGS to Man Utd in my opinion, the major difference being how young AVB was at the time - which was unprecedented and gives him extra stature, same goes for Nagelsmann these days. What he's doing is great, but him being 33 makes it ten times more impressive. I'd actually turn your question around and ask why you can't see that OGS to Man Utd is very comparable to many big club managerial appointments, I've so far laid out my case in great detail so please do tell your opinion. As said, I have no issues changing my opinion if given a good reason for why.

 

Again, I'm not arguing Man Utd couldn't do better than OGS or that they shouldn't have aimed "higher". My argument is that them appointing OGS is extremely understandable, somewhat expected, and OGS being supported by Man Utd fans is not at all surprising.  Also that the critique being given OGS (bar his horrid league start this season) is unwarranted and rooted in (on here for instance) an inherent dislike of the man. The guy has the third highest win ratio for Man Utd in their history, a higher expectation is essentially expecting OGS to achieve a higher win ratio than Ferguson. If he keeps up the current league form, he'll get sacked no matter what his win ratio is, of course. If Man City is 9th by mid-season then I'd expect Pep to get fired as well, or at least mutually agree to end his contract at the end of the season due to the respect owed him for what he's done there.

[joeyt]

AVB had won the Europa League when Chelsea appointed him.

 

I don't really care about the Norwegian league but a quick Google tells me in the few years before Molde won the league it was won by 3 different clubs so hardly a closed shop. I've no doubt he did well there but you've got to see the difference between Chelsea appointing AVB or Man Utd appointing Moyes is different to Man Utd giving OGS the permanent job.

 

Since he's been given the permanent job I think OGS' win percentage is less than 50%

 

Of his first 100 games, United have won 55, drawn 21 and lost 24. That record is nothing to write home about, particularly when you consider that by far their best run of results came before he had been appointed on a full-time basis. He has won 32 of his 65 Premier League matches to date and 22 out of 52 since being appointed permanently. If we are talking about trajectory, it was skyward for those three months as caretaker manager and has been fairly underwhelming for the most part ever since.

 

22 wins out of 52 since becoming manager of Manchester bloody United is very underwelming

[Froggy]

If we're talking trajectory we won 9 of our last 14 league games last year and drew the other 5 to finish 3rd. I'm not sure why a bad start means people completely forget about that.

 

No matter how you look at it, Ole took over when the club was sitting in 7th place I believe after getting absolutely hammered by Liverpool. The atmosphere was toxic. There was a lot of deadwood at the club on monster wages. He's slowly righted a lot of the wrongs. Results could be better at the moment, sure, but in his first full season in charge as permanent manager he took us to third place and two semi finals in the major cups we were in.

 

Being realistic, given where the club was, that is a successful season. He now needs in improve on that, but people suggesting we should pull the trigger after 6 games is ludicrous.

[Disco]

Woodward did well to get rid of that deadwood, I agree. Although the fans should get some credit for getting rid of Lukaku, who was despised from the off.

[Collage]

The arguments against him are idiotic and fueled by dislike/emotion rather than objective stats and facts, which I dislike more than I dislike OGS.

 

No. The Man U job is one of the top 3-5 in football. David Moyes shouldn’t have gotten it, he wasn’t qualified. The same goes for Solskjaer.

 

Shearer took over from Joe Kinnear And we knew that was the road we were heading down again. Of course we wanted Shearer to stay. Not comparable.

 

Absolutely comparable. As much as it disgusts me to say it, Joe Kinnear was on paper much more qualified than Alan Shearer to manage Newcastle United if you look at their managerial history and not their attachment to any one club. Shearer wasn't even a manager at the time, what would your opinion be if Gary Lineker was the one appointed and not Shearer? Would you have wanted Lineker to get the job, or stay? Jaime Redknapp?

 

Pochettino is essentially just as qualified on paper for the Man Utd job as Moyes was. It's a bit of a double standard if you say Moyes shouldn't have gotten the job, yet you think Pochettino should get it when you look at their managerial history up until the point Moyes took over Man Utd, or Pochettino now if he took over tomorrow. Neither have major honors, and their biggest achievements have been building a club that didn't compete much into a team that could compete.

 

The Barcelona job is perhaps the biggest job in football, that went to a reserve team manager.

 

In the end, the manager needs to be a proper fit for a club.

 

Look, if you think Mourinho to OGS and Kinnear to Shearer is a good comparison, there’s nothing more I can say really. It’s just ridiculous.

 

I’d take Lineker or Redknapp over Kinnear, yes. I’d take pretty much anybody over him. How is this relevant?

 

I haven’t mentioned Pochettino.

 

You're (I assume) intentionally misinterpreting my comparisons. Zidane following Benitez then? Why is that different to OGS following Mourinho? We as NUFC fans inherently dislike OGS due to his horrid behavior against us. We don't have that dislike for Zidane, for instance.

 

It's not over Kinnear, it's how you'd react if they were appointed following Kinnear (and not Shearer). You'd naturally would have wanted us to appoint a manager with experience, not a pundit. Yet, due to us loving Shearer, we welcomed him as a savior, when he did not even have any coaching badges and supported him - yet say OGS shouldn't be at Man Utd when he's more qualified for the Man Utd job than Shearer was for the NUFC job. We'd be absolutely livid if they'd appointed Lineker or Jaime Redknapp, yet om paper they're just as qualified as Shearer with their main jobs since they retired being pundits.

 

I brought up Pochettino to make a new point and comparison to back my original point in our discussion.

 

I don’t think Zidane was qualified for the Real job although I can understand why he got it at the time, and of course it worked.

 

The job at hand at Man U is a whole different matter. In my opinion they need a meticulous manager who can make the sum bigger than its parts, given the material. OGS is probably a good man manager but there’s no clear structure, it’s a bit hit and miss.

[Froggy]

Woodward did well to get rid of that deadwood, I agree. Although the fans should get some credit for getting rid of Lukaku, who was despised from the off.

 

That just isn't true. There's no ill feeling towards Lukaku even now.

[Jaqen]

To be honest I'm definitely enjoying Man U fans transition from super arrogant to applauding and accepting mediocrity 

 

 

 

[joeyt]

[Guest]

Not to be one of those, but what on Earth are WBA expecting? Nowhere near the pulling power that the other promoted clubs have never mind the Premier League. Wonder if this will be Big Sam’s route back into management.

[Froggy]

To be honest I'm definitely enjoying Man U fans transition from super arrogant to applauding and accepting mediocrity 

 

 

 

 

If third place is mediocrity then I'd love to know what the likes of 13th is.

[Rocker]

To be honest I'm definitely enjoying Man U fans transition from super arrogant to applauding and accepting mediocrity 

 

 

 

 

If third place is mediocrity then I'd love to know what the likes of 13th is.

 

Shit.

[Shearergol]

To be honest I'm definitely enjoying Man U fans transition from super arrogant to applauding and accepting mediocrity 

 

 

 

 

If third place is mediocrity then I'd love to know what the likes of 13th is.

 

You realise you can't hurt us by pointing out how shit we are, right?

[Froggy]

I wasn't trying to hurt you. 13th is mediocrity. 18th is shit. 3rd is very good

[joeyt]

Not if you're Manchester United

[Shearergol]

I wasn't trying to hurt you. 13th is mediocrity. 18th is shit. 3rd is very good

 

18th in the premiership would be fantastic for Plymouth. 3rd this season would be shit for Liverpool.