Alan '48 points' Pardew

[mrmojorisin75]

Fucking hell this thread is a massive circle of recycled points, so here's another.

 

People pointing to the Spurs, Chelsea and Manyoo wins which have masked very bad losses to inferior teams: the haterz point about Pardew always comes back to sustainability.

 

During the 5th season we said it was not sustainable to play football based on marginal results and one person scoring the goals from scraps. So it was proven right.

 

This season he's pulled off 3 very good and unexpected wins that have papered over some of the same failings that had us in trouble last year. Does anyone see where I'm going with this?

 

If we spend the rest of the season struggling against weaker teams and don't go to Anfield or the Emirates and take points chances are we'll end up bottom half of the table.

 

Similarly if we rinse and repeat next season without the wins against the big teams.

 

Shock results like we had are not the norm, top teams will not always be in transition, then where will we be?

 

Until he can put out at team that goes at the weaker teams at home looking to score lots of goals and beat them senseless he's getting it very, very wrong. Keegan almost won the fucking title doing this tbh, 17 home wins that season but our away record was gash.

 

Madness people can't or won't see it.

[ChrisMcQuillan]

f***ing hell this thread is a massive circle of recycled points, so here's another.

 

People pointing to the Spurs, Chelsea and Manyoo wins which have masked very bad losses to inferior teams: the haterz point about Pardew always comes back to sustainability.

 

During the 5th season we said it was not sustainable to play football based on marginal results and one person scoring the goals from scraps. So it was proven right.

 

This season he's pulled off 3 very good and unexpected wins that have papered over some of the same failings that had us in trouble last year. Does anyone see where I'm going with this?

 

If we spend the rest of the season struggling against weaker teams and don't go to Anfield or the Emirates and take points chances are we'll end up bottom half of the table.

 

Similarly if we rinse and repeat next season without the wins against the big teams.

 

Shock results like we had are not the norm, top teams will not always be in transition, then where will we be?

 

Until he can put out at team that goes at the weaker teams at home looking to score lots of goals and beat them senseless he's getting it very, very wrong. Keegan almost won the f***ing title doing this tbh, 17 home wins that season but our away record was gash.

 

Madness people can't or won't see it.

 

Magnificent post.

[midds]

Fucking hell this thread is a massive circle of recycled points, so here's another.

 

People pointing to the Spurs, Chelsea and Manyoo wins which have masked very bad losses to inferior teams: the haterz point about Pardew always comes back to sustainability.

 

During the 5th season we said it was not sustainable to play football based on marginal results and one person scoring the goals from scraps. So it was proven right.

 

This season he's pulled off 3 very good and unexpected wins that have papered over some of the same failings that had us in trouble last year. Does anyone see where I'm going with this?

 

If we spend the rest of the season struggling against weaker teams and don't go to Anfield or the Emirates and take points chances are we'll end up bottom half of the table.

 

Similarly if we rinse and repeat next season without the wins against the big teams.

 

Shock results like we had are not the norm, top teams will not always be in transition, then where will we be?

 

Until he can put out at team that goes at the weaker teams at home looking to score lots of goals and beat them senseless he's getting it very, very wrong. Keegan almost won the fucking title doing this tbh, 17 home wins that season but our away record was gash.

 

Madness people can't or won't see it.

 

ding ding ding ding. This rings the fucking bell like.

[Mick]

Some of the defence of Pardew in here today has been cringeworthy, Bret get's a special mention for asking about English Managers. 

[JH]

f***ing hell this thread is a massive circle of recycled points, so here's another.

 

People pointing to the Spurs, Chelsea and Manyoo wins which have masked very bad losses to inferior teams: the haterz point about Pardew always comes back to sustainability.

 

During the 5th season we said it was not sustainable to play football based on marginal results and one person scoring the goals from scraps. So it was proven right.

 

This season he's pulled off 3 very good and unexpected wins that have papered over some of the same failings that had us in trouble last year. Does anyone see where I'm going with this?

 

If we spend the rest of the season struggling against weaker teams and don't go to Anfield or the Emirates and take points chances are we'll end up bottom half of the table.

 

Similarly if we rinse and repeat next season without the wins against the big teams.

 

Shock results like we had are not the norm, top teams will not always be in transition, then where will we be?

 

Until he can put out at team that goes at the weaker teams at home looking to score lots of goals and beat them senseless he's getting it very, very wrong. Keegan almost won the f***ing title doing this tbh, 17 home wins that season but our away record was gash.

 

Madness people can't or won't see it.

 

You've just won the forum - well done.

 

It's worked for donkeys. We've never particularly had a good away record under our better managers (even in the later days under Bobby) but we were winning the games we were supposed to at home and giving the big teams a go as well.

 

There's no point in one without the other. Until he starts treating the cup competitions with respect and stops trying to shut up shop against the 'weaker' sides, then he'll not be the manager for me tbh.

[SteveMc]

Yip you need a decent number of 2-0 standard home wins a season to make progress. We don't seem to be able to count on a result in any given game.

[colinmk]

Mojo. 

[BrettNUFC]

Some of the defence of Pardew in here today has been cringeworthy, Bret get's a special mention for asking about English Managers. 

 

You lot just missed my point about English managers. I meant the style of play around the country in England, 90 percent of the country play this 'anti football'. I keep hearing sack Pardew and our next manager will get us playing attacking football but when asked for names i got Nigel Adkins and Billy Davies, so i'm guessing if he was sacked we want a foreigner as if that's the best these shores have to offer us then they can fuck right off

 

People say managers with a high level of class players will get their teams playing the right way of football but then you only need to look at our international side and see the football Hodgson is producing.

 

My point basically is if we sack Pardew and bring someone else in and he turns out to be a bog standard manager with no flair in his style, will you get behind him? If the results are positive but football is still on the whole rather plain and flat, will you be behind him?

 

A lot of people forget i was in your position with Hughton, i wanted him out, i couldn't give a shit if he was a nice guy or not, he was a bang average manager at best and i wanted someone different to come in to upgrade and take us to next level. He got sacked and i was delighted, then we announced Pardew and i was absolutely livid but after the moaning and groaning realised this is the way it's always going to be with Ashley so may as well just put up with it, hope he does a good job and get behind the players on the pitch. Pardew has actually done a far greater job then i ever imagined him to do, certainly didn't see a 5th place finish and travelling around Europe with him in charge

[Toonpack]

End of the day basically the majority on here want him sacked and a foreigner brought in, i say foreigner because nobody was able to name someone from these shores to replace and play this exciting football they want to see.

 

Question still remains if he was sacked and someone was brought in who wasn't known for his pretty football, would people accept him since it's not Pardew. I'm beginning to think it's basically Pardew as a person who is hated and wanted out, this whole we play such boring football is just a smokescreen as 90 percent of the football teams in the country don't play with the style of football people on here want to see. This kind of football was accepted with Hughton but he was a nice genuine guy, whilst Pardew is bullshitting c***.

 

 

Saw a decent question put to David Peace (author of the Damned United) a few months back that was answered like this, and I think it said something about what people look for in a manager:

 

Q

 

I met Shankly with my dad once outside Anfield and he did possess this messianic aura. Grown men felt blessed to be in his company and there was a kind of Puritan work ethic that drove men like Shankly, Busby and Stein. With the retirement of Ferguson who was perhaps the last of that breed, the British game now seems to be controlled by dull pragmatists and technicians. At board level, old school spivs like Louis Edwards, Ken Bates, Ron Noades, Doug Ellis and Peter Swales have been replaced by global franchise gangsters for whom each club is merely an entry in a portfolio. Yet football has never belonged to the fans, footballers and managers have always been expendable and chairmen and administrators have always been incompetent and corrupt. Gazprom United will no doubt rule world football soon but is this necessarily a bad thing?

 

A: One thing that struck me, again and again, researching and writing Red or Dead was, as you say, that football has never belonged to the supporters, the players or the managers. The clubs have always been owned by the men with the brass. But what also struck me was the way in which men like Shankly, Stein and Busby – coming from backgrounds that were much harder and poorer than most of us (not all of us) will ever know – through their sheer bloody-mindedness and hard work, their sacrifices and struggles, taking on the owners and the directors, created clubs in their own and the supporters’ image. And even in times as dark as these, I still do find that inspirational.

 

 

When you think of a manager like that at our club you would think of Robson or Keegan - they weren't just good managers, they were brilliant representatives of the club and the region, and as Peace said 'they shaped the club in their own image'.

 

"Great managers" (Robson, Clough, Revie, Paisley, Shankley) first emerged in large numbers after the abolition of the maximum wage. They were able to scour the country searching for talent, and then assembling it at clubs in the big cities, who would have a financial advantage over those outside the cities (although the inequality was nowhere near as vast as it is today). They would often find the players themselves, and they would run the club from top to bottom. They were the club, and if successful they would be worshipped, and in this country that is what a great manager is still defined as.

 

I think it's pretty obvious, even to a Pardew fan like me, that Alan Pardew is definitely not going to be that man for Newcastle United.

 

However, it is also obvious to me that as long as Ashley is in charge we aren't going to have a manager like that. No one is going to be allowed that level of control. Pardew is consistently undermined in transfer windows, and it is obvious that unfortunately, for as long as Mike Ashley is here, the club will project Mike Ashley's image.

 

But there is something to be said for the system that is put in place. I don't think it is as easy for a manager to build a dynasty on his own as it was in the 70s / 80s. There is only one manager in the league who has built his club from top to bottom. It is a global game now - you cannot have a manager and his sidekick driving round the country for players like Clough and Taylor at Forest.

 

But the current accepted thinking in this country hasn't changed. We gave £50m to Souness, he rang up his mates like Boersma and Saunders and gave them jobs, then he rang his old club and other mates and the likes of Boumsong arrived. Then we had to spend more to sack him. Absolute insanity but common enough in football.

 

Down at Sunderland, Short has been instructed in conventional thinking by everyone in football's best mate Niall Quinn - and has poured millions down the drain while Quinn, Bruce, and ONeill walk away with millions.

 

Its an outdated method and clubs in this country are seeking an alternative. There is an argument that the days of truly iconic managers may soon be gone. Ashley is a loathsome individual and projects a terrible image for our club. But he has a system in place that does not rely on one man and there is something to be said for that.

 

Pardew is never going to bestride this club like a collosus, but no one is while Ashley is here.

Pardew is always going to tow the party line in interviews and his attitude to the cups, but so will any manager while Ashely is here.

Pardew's style reflects the fact that we will not spend large amounts on forwards - any manager here will have to contend with this.

 

He is though, the most important cog in the machine Ashley has put in place. He has done a good job for Newcastle United in that role, and he deserves praise for it.

 

Important stuff bolded.

 

Whilst I found Red or Dead a little hagiographic & at times cringe worthy I though it was a good portrayal of Shankly on a whole & a decent read. Peace seems to write football brilliantly which I previously thought was impossible.

 

 

 

I had a look at Red or Dead but didn't think I'd be able to get away with the style unfortunately. Its a shame because after reading The Damned United, I'd have been really interested to see his portrayal of Shankly . The interview with Peace is here if you're interested: http://yerknowthedance.wordpress.com/2013/09/02/peace-in-our-time/

 

Regarding your bold bits.

 

No-one other than Ferguson has been a colossus at their clubs.

 

Ferguson even being a colossus towed the party line.

 

Define "large amounts" if you mean £40+ million you're right. We paid a canny wedge for Cisse.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

At the end of the day with Pardew, we're probably not going down but we don't appear to be going anywhere either.

 

Will be miserable as fuck when the next round of the Cup is played.

[Optimistic Nut]

I just don't get his approach to the cup here. Maybe Gerrard scarred him for life when he robbed them of the FA Cup with that screamer and it's a phobia. West Ham's squad was worse yet he took it seriously there.

[Wullie]

There was an article in the Independent at the weekend before the game making the case that we were the only Premier League team that could afford to throw our full weight at the FA Cup, and that we should do exactly that.

 

So glad we didn't, will make for such an exciting run in. Will be it 8th? Will it be 9th? Be still my beating heart.

[TRon]

Does anyone think if we replaced Pardew with Carver or Willie Donaghie from the coaching staff we'd be much worse off? Chris Hughton was just a coach before Ashley decided he had enough of spending money on proper managers and he did ok. Ashley brings in quality players on the cheap and even without much coaching they'll get some good results and some bad. Pardew really has a hard time trying to figure out how to get 5ft 10 players to jump higher.

[BrettNUFC]

People act like Pardew done an Allardyce and fielded an under 21 side like he wasn't arsed. When in fact it was a very strong side that should have been capable of beating Cardiff and when you're 1 up with 20 minutes to go and Cardiff haven't really threatened much, i certainly thought we were in the next round and the players probably did too. Match got turned on it's head by poor keeping and a set piece, let's not go overboard here. We didn't batter Cardiff, they didn't batter us, was a poor standard of a game which we threw away when in control. To say Pardew deliberately got us knocked out on advice from Ashley or just because he wasn't arsed himself about the cup is mental.

[dilligaf]

To say Pardew deliberately got us knocked out on advice from Ashley or just because he wasn't arsed himself about the cup is mental.

I don't think he got us knocked out because of orders from above but I do think he got us knocked out by piss poor team selection and tactics.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I just don't get his approach to the cup here. Maybe Gerrard scarred him for life when he robbed them of the FA Cup with that screamer and it's a phobia. West Ham's squad was worse yet he took it seriously there.

 

He actually put out a half decent team though no? Not the first XI but better than most people expected. I agree we should go all-out for the cup though.

[nufc4eva]

People act like Pardew done an Allardyce and fielded an under 21 side like he wasn't arsed. When in fact it was a very strong side that should have been capable of beating Cardiff and when you're 1 up with 20 minutes to go and Cardiff haven't really threatened much, i certainly thought we were in the next round and the players probably did too. Match got turned on it's head by poor keeping and a set piece, let's not go overboard here. We didn't batter Cardiff, they didn't batter us, was a poor standard of a game which we threw away when in control. To say Pardew deliberately got us knocked out on advice from Ashley or just because he wasn't arsed himself about the cup is mental.

 

I think the team looked strong enough, however it's his tactics time and time again. We need to attack teams more at home and be more ruthless, we constantly look negative and fall apart in opposition half. He manages and coaches that team and should be able to get a performance out of them. He is so fucking negative about everything and shit scared about what the other team will do no matter their level, just look at his comments about how we contained them, contained them fucking hell man, they made a number of changes to, are recently promoted and don't have the level of players we have. We should be doing more than containing them, we should be fucking battering them.

[BrettNUFC]

To say Pardew deliberately got us knocked out on advice from Ashley or just because he wasn't arsed himself about the cup is mental.

I don't think he got us knocked out because of orders from above but I do think he got us knocked out by p*ss poor team selection and tactics.

 

Well fair enough if that's your opinion, can accept that if he's made a mistake with his team selection or tactics or both but that's more reasonable to say he threw the match necause he didn't want to be in the cup. That could have been a league match for me and that outcome might have still happened. I thought his team selection was good, i was happy with the team but then i thought tactically we were just giving Cardiff too much time on the ball and we weren't closing them down quick enough.

 

I've never liked Ben Arfa in that 10 role and thought Sissoko should have moved in the middle and Ben Arfa out wide to stretch them. Some people love Ben Arfa in the 10 role though. We got the goal though and from then i thought the game was over and we were through but two poor goals and we are out. Tried in vain putting two strikers on to get the goal back but Cardiff were strong enough at the back to cope with our feeble pressure.

 

[nufc4eva]

I just don't get his approach to the cup here. Maybe Gerrard scarred him for life when he robbed them of the FA Cup with that screamer and it's a phobia. West Ham's squad was worse yet he took it seriously there.

 

He actually put out a half decent team though no? Not the first XI but better than most people expected. I agree we should go all-out for the cup though.

 

The team looked like a team that should beat these, we just play too negative and don't attack with enough purpose, he takes the blame for that. He get's credit for getting impressive wins against Spurs, Man U and Chelsea but fucking hell some of the performances against teams well below us have been shocking.

 

Gouffran and Sissoko work hard and are designed to support the full back when defending rather than taking the opposition apart and is plain negative. He no longer need Jonas because he now has 2 perfect defensive wingers. It works when trying to keep tight and organised against the bigger and more ruthless teams but you need a bit of class and attacking ability against the smaller teams and he fails to see it, thinking containment and grinding out results will get us somewhere.

[JH]

Pardew's record in the cup speaks for itself. And the club have made their position clear on cup competitions in the recent past. If you don't believe that this had an effect on the mentality of the players then you just don't understand people.

 

If my boss came out and said "I don't really care about that project" then I wouldn't be motivated to do well in it - what's the point? They don't care and I get paid anyway. You could see some of the players felt the same way - Cardiff wanted to win it more and in the end they did.

[nufc4eva]

Pardew's record in the cup speaks for itself. And the club have made their position clear on cup competitions in the recent past. If you don't believe that this had an effect on the mentality of the players then you just don't understand people.

 

If my boss came out and said "I don't really care about that project" then I wouldn't be motivated to do well in it - what's the point? They don't care and I get paid anyway. You could see some of the players felt the same way - Cardiff wanted to win it more and in the end they did.

 

Agree with this, negativity rubs off on staff etc, similar situation if my boss does not see a project as a priority it goes right down my queue and I stop caring about it.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I just don't get his approach to the cup here. Maybe Gerrard scarred him for life when he robbed them of the FA Cup with that screamer and it's a phobia. West Ham's squad was worse yet he took it seriously there.

 

He actually put out a half decent team though no? Not the first XI but better than most people expected. I agree we should go all-out for the cup though.

 

The team looked like a team that should beat these, we just play too negative and don't attack with enough purpose, he takes the blame for that. He get's credit for getting impressive wins against Spurs, Man U and Chelsea but fucking hell some of the performances against teams well below us have been shocking.

 

Gouffran and Sissoko work hard and are designed to support the full back when defending rather than taking the opposition apart and is plain negative. He no longer need Jonas because he now has 2 perfect defensive wingers. It works when trying to keep tight and organised against the bigger and more ruthless teams but you need a bit of class and attacking ability against the smaller teams and he fails to see it, thinking containment and grinding out results will get us somewhere.

 

True, I agree he's generally too conservative.

[Wullie]

Pardew's record in the cup speaks for itself. And the club have made their position clear on cup competitions in the recent past. If you don't believe that this had an effect on the mentality of the players then you just don't understand people.

 

If my boss came out and said "I don't really care about that project" then I wouldn't be motivated to do well in it - what's the point? They don't care and I get paid anyway. You could see some of the players felt the same way - Cardiff wanted to win it more and in the end they did.

 

Astonishing that this even needs explaining but then it appears even the most basic human psychology is beyond some people's understanding.

 

Lambert, Allardyce and Pardew were all in the press last week with tears in their eyes about having to play in the FA Cup, all three subsequently got binned out after pathetic performances with no heart (four in a row for Pards). Funny that.

[TRon]

To say Pardew deliberately got us knocked out on advice from Ashley or just because he wasn't arsed himself about the cup is mental.

I don't think he got us knocked out because of orders from above but I do think he got us knocked out by p*ss poor team selection and tactics.

 

Well fair enough if that's your opinion, can accept that if he's made a mistake with his team selection or tactics or both but that's more reasonable to say he threw the match necause he didn't want to be in the cup. That could have been a league match for me and that outcome might have still happened. I thought his team selection was good, i was happy with the team but then i thought tactically we were just giving Cardiff too much time on the ball and we weren't closing them down quick enough.

 

I've never liked Ben Arfa in that 10 role and thought Sissoko should have moved in the middle and Ben Arfa out wide to stretch them. Some people love Ben Arfa in the 10 role though. We got the goal though and from then i thought the game was over and we were through but two poor goals and we are out. Tried in vain putting two strikers on to get the goal back but Cardiff were strong enough at the back to cope with our feeble pressure.

 

 

Ben Arfa has his faults but he has all the tools to be a very dangerous no 10. If he played against us as a no 10 I reckon he'd destroy us. When he plays as a no 10 for us though, we usually have very few players attacking the opposition so he ends up trying to beat everyone and score a wonder goal. That's partly down to his mentality, and partly down to Pardew keeping players behind the ball so there's not usually much option anyway.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Sissoko is basically a CM, he's able to do alright out wide because of his physical attributes, but it's not his position.