Teasy Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 He's not out of his depths at all. pardew? Of course he's not. i guess there will be no concurrence on this matter then, 'cause he's out of his depths imho top tier championship manager in charge of international footballers and our position and performances reflect this fairly accurately tbh Remit - League : Finish Top 10 FA Cup : Not Applicable League Cup : Not Applicable To say he's out of his depth is utterly laughable. People also have a habit of massively over rating our squad. We could probably this year 7th at best and if we had a really bad season 13th-14th. You know when people talk about ridiculous expectations - they're talking about you. The irony is the expectation is a product of Pardew's own high performance but that's no doubt lost on you. Oh do fuck off man Its not like people are having a go at Pardew because we aren't currently top 5. The thing people have a problem with most is the way he sets his side up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 He's not out of his depths at all. pardew? Of course he's not. i guess there will be no concurrence on this matter then, 'cause he's out of his depths imho top tier championship manager in charge of international footballers and our position and performances reflect this fairly accurately tbh Remit - League : Finish Top 10 FA Cup : Not Applicable League Cup : Not Applicable To say he's out of his depth is utterly laughable. People also have a habit of massively over rating our squad. We could probably this year 7th at best and if we had a really bad season 13th-14th. You know when people talk about ridiculous expectations - they're talking about you. The irony is the expectation is a product of Pardew's own high performance but that's no doubt lost on you. Ridiculous expectations is expecting the 7th or 8th best squad in the league to present a challenge to the top 6 and maybe not go out of every cup at the first or second hurdle every year. If you want to point fingers, then people like you are why those running NUFC have been able to get away with taking the p*ss out of fans for so long. Our squad isn't as good as you think - but we are challenging the top 6 - obviously. You're just helping me make my point. Oh and that highlighted section ;D ;D ;D Challenging the top 6, yeah. If you're the 7th or 8th best squad in the country then you don't aim for 7th or 8th, you aim for higher. So - is he out of his depth or isn't he? Yes, in the sense he'll never build a sustainable attacking philosophy with a squad that is clearly capable of it. That wasn't the question - nor was it part of the debate. However - how many Newcastle managers in the last 50 years met the above requirements? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 And the highlighted section's correct, Liverpool fans wouldn't stand for it and as a result they have largely been a club that is at least always trying to make itself better. I don't think Liverpool is a fair comparison to most clubs in the country, let alone ours. Both clubs had won the same about of trophies in the 70s. Dat Ambition! So, would you say our brief stab at competing was a blip & now normality has been restored? I'm not sure what you're point is. Liverpool we're basically one of the best teams in Europe with more money than most clubs in England and a succession of the best managers promoted from within. There is really no comparison. The two clubs in the early 70s were level trophy wise. Obviously Liverpool had much bigger ambitions and wanted to become something bigger. While we have been coneinuely ran by muppets where football seems to come second. Not sure whats hard to grasp like. So why is it fair to compare the expectations of modern day Liverpool (FSG) to the expectations of Newcastle fans? It's not. Cheers for backing that up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 And the highlighted section's correct, Liverpool fans wouldn't stand for it and as a result they have largely been a club that is at least always trying to make itself better. I don't think Liverpool is a fair comparison to most clubs in the country, let alone ours. Both clubs had won the same about of trophies in the 70s. Dat Ambition! Exactly. There isn't a club our size in Europe that has been waiting this long for a trophy and the divided nature of our support in terms of not demanding more certainly doesn't help, it hinders and people like Ashley take advantage. Do I need to dig up my list of shit clubs that have won trophies since 1969 again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 And the highlighted section's correct, Liverpool fans wouldn't stand for it and as a result they have largely been a club that is at least always trying to make itself better. I don't think Liverpool is a fair comparison to most clubs in the country, let alone ours. Both clubs had won the same about of trophies in the 70s. Dat Ambition! So, would you say our brief stab at competing was a blip & now normality has been restored? I'm not sure what you're point is. Liverpool we're basically one of the best teams in Europe with more money than most clubs in England and a succession of the best managers promoted from within. There is really no comparison. The two clubs in the early 70s were level trophy wise. Obviously Liverpool had much bigger ambitions and wanted to become something bigger. While we have been coneinuely ran by muppets where football seems to come second. Not sure whats hard to grasp like. So why is it fair to compare the expectations of modern day Liverpool (FSG) to the expectations of Newcastle fans? It's not. Cheers for backing that up. I was just pointing it out, for the sake of the discussion and how two clubs similar size in the 70s have take two very different paths. Funny how we still flounder about. And...stoping being an angry arse. I was just pointing it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 "Remit" like that's all there is to it was he out of his depth last year then Haris, he had the same remit then no? said it before but i've never seen a manager more out of his depth last year than him, maybe that fella that took over at wolves and looked like a rabbit in the headlights the entire time Last year - of course - but there were obvious variables. If you've never seen a manager more ''out of his depth'' than a manager clearly not out of his depth you can't have watched much football at all. right then, so he's only not out of his depth when he has an adequate number of players fit and doesn't have too many games to play? i think you'll find that's part of the definition of a manager who is out of his depth we've done ok to date so far as injuries and games have been in his favour, we hit the festive period and things start to go against him and he's f***ed again...lost 3, possibly 4 to come and the stoke win was a f***ing gift He wasn't the only person to blame last year - he just took all of it. Teams have good form and bad form - this is again - obvious. If we kept up 7 wins in 10 we'd probably win the league. The players took plenty of the blame last year, to the extent that a few on here were saying they were overrated and no better than a lower bottom half team. History's been re-written again since then mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 He's not out of his depths at all. pardew? Of course he's not. i guess there will be no concurrence on this matter then, 'cause he's out of his depths imho top tier championship manager in charge of international footballers and our position and performances reflect this fairly accurately tbh Remit - League : Finish Top 10 FA Cup : Not Applicable League Cup : Not Applicable To say he's out of his depth is utterly laughable. People also have a habit of massively over rating our squad. We could probably this year 7th at best and if we had a really bad season 13th-14th. You know when people talk about ridiculous expectations - they're talking about you. The irony is the expectation is a product of Pardew's own high performance but that's no doubt lost on you. Ridiculous expectations is expecting the 7th or 8th best squad in the league to present a challenge to the top 6 and maybe not go out of every cup at the first or second hurdle every year. If you want to point fingers, then people like you are why those running NUFC have been able to get away with taking the p*ss out of fans for so long. Our squad isn't as good as you think - but we are challenging the top 6 - obviously. You're just helping me make my point. Oh and that highlighted section ;D ;D ;D Challenging the top 6, yeah. If you're the 7th or 8th best squad in the country then you don't aim for 7th or 8th, you aim for higher. So - is he out of his depth or isn't he? Yes, in the sense he'll never build a sustainable attacking philosophy with a squad that is clearly capable of it. That wasn't the question - nor was it part of the debate. However - how many Newcastle managers in the last 50 years met the above requirements? I answered your question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 He's not out of his depths at all. pardew? Of course he's not. i guess there will be no concurrence on this matter then, 'cause he's out of his depths imho top tier championship manager in charge of international footballers and our position and performances reflect this fairly accurately tbh Remit - League : Finish Top 10 FA Cup : Not Applicable League Cup : Not Applicable To say he's out of his depth is utterly laughable. People also have a habit of massively over rating our squad. We could probably this year 7th at best and if we had a really bad season 13th-14th. You know when people talk about ridiculous expectations - they're talking about you. The irony is the expectation is a product of Pardew's own high performance but that's no doubt lost on you. Ridiculous expectations is expecting the 7th or 8th best squad in the league to present a challenge to the top 6 and maybe not go out of every cup at the first or second hurdle every year. If you want to point fingers, then people like you are why those running NUFC have been able to get away with taking the p*ss out of fans for so long. Our squad isn't as good as you think - but we are challenging the top 6 - obviously. You're just helping me make my point. Oh and that highlighted section ;D ;D ;D Challenging the top 6, yeah. If you're the 7th or 8th best squad in the country then you don't aim for 7th or 8th, you aim for higher. So - is he out of his depth or isn't he? Yes, in the sense he'll never build a sustainable attacking philosophy with a squad that is clearly capable of it. That wasn't the question - nor was it part of the debate. However - how many Newcastle managers in the last 50 years met the above requirements? I answered your question. No - you changed the question to meet an agenda - the debate was nothing to do with style or philosophy it was to do with whether Pardew was out of his depth given the aforementioned remit. i.e Does Alan Pardew have the knowledge & skill to take the current team to a top ten finish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Just my two penneths worth, but how can you say he's not out of his depth when she's shitting it before a game and talking up how we were able to "contain" the mighty Cardiff after?!? He has a lot of good to excellent players that he has no idea (a) how to incorporate into the team and (b) where they should be positionally! He has one way of playing, if that doesn't work it's hoof it to Shola time. His subs are reactive, not proactive. Need I go on? If that's not the mark of a limited manager way out of his depth then you've lost me!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 No - you changed the question to meet an agenda - the debate was nothing to do with style or philosophy it was to do with whether Pardew was out of his depth given the aforementioned remit. i.e Does Alan Pardew have the knowledge & skill to take the current team to a top ten finish. Out of his depth doesn't have to mean "can he achieve the minimum the owner requires" though. If you have a good enough squad and low enough expectations then even a manager who's generally out of his depth in a certain league can achieve what's required of him. He's out of his depth in that he's far below the quality required to bring out the potential of our squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 he started the season ok, then had his great run of 7/10 after a miserable, miserable showing against the mackems and now he's started to undermine himself with stupid fucking changes and fearful tactics so we've now fallen back a little bit in the league and gone out of the cup this is because he can't manage change in any way shape or form how is that not out of your depth? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 He's not out of his depths at all. pardew? Of course he's not. i guess there will be no concurrence on this matter then, 'cause he's out of his depths imho top tier championship manager in charge of international footballers and our position and performances reflect this fairly accurately tbh Remit - League : Finish Top 10 FA Cup : Not Applicable League Cup : Not Applicable To say he's out of his depth is utterly laughable. People also have a habit of massively over rating our squad. We could probably this year 7th at best and if we had a really bad season 13th-14th. You know when people talk about ridiculous expectations - they're talking about you. The irony is the expectation is a product of Pardew's own high performance but that's no doubt lost on you. Ridiculous expectations is expecting the 7th or 8th best squad in the league to present a challenge to the top 6 and maybe not go out of every cup at the first or second hurdle every year. If you want to point fingers, then people like you are why those running NUFC have been able to get away with taking the p*ss out of fans for so long. Our squad isn't as good as you think - but we are challenging the top 6 - obviously. You're just helping me make my point. Oh and that highlighted section ;D ;D ;D Challenging the top 6, yeah. If you're the 7th or 8th best squad in the country then you don't aim for 7th or 8th, you aim for higher. So - is he out of his depth or isn't he? Yes, in the sense he'll never build a sustainable attacking philosophy with a squad that is clearly capable of it. That wasn't the question - nor was it part of the debate. However - how many Newcastle managers in the last 50 years met the above requirements? I answered your question. No - you changed the question to meet an agenda - the debate was nothing to do with style or philosophy it was to do with whether Pardew was out of his depth given the aforementioned remit. i.e Does Alan Pardew have the knowledge & skill to take the current team to a top ten finish. He's out of his depth as far as I'm concerned because his approach is built on sand and is boring to watch. He's not out of his depth in terms of the unambitious targets set by Mike Ashley but I'm not sure why you wanted me to answer from that perspective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRD Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Am I supposed to be impressed by any manager who leads us to a top 10 finish? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 He's not out of his depths at all. pardew? Of course he's not. i guess there will be no concurrence on this matter then, 'cause he's out of his depths imho top tier championship manager in charge of international footballers and our position and performances reflect this fairly accurately tbh Remit - League : Finish Top 10 FA Cup : Not Applicable League Cup : Not Applicable To say he's out of his depth is utterly laughable. People also have a habit of massively over rating our squad. We could probably this year 7th at best and if we had a really bad season 13th-14th. You know when people talk about ridiculous expectations - they're talking about you. The irony is the expectation is a product of Pardew's own high performance but that's no doubt lost on you. Ridiculous expectations is expecting the 7th or 8th best squad in the league to present a challenge to the top 6 and maybe not go out of every cup at the first or second hurdle every year. If you want to point fingers, then people like you are why those running NUFC have been able to get away with taking the p*ss out of fans for so long. Our squad isn't as good as you think - but we are challenging the top 6 - obviously. You're just helping me make my point. Oh and that highlighted section ;D ;D ;D Challenging the top 6, yeah. If you're the 7th or 8th best squad in the country then you don't aim for 7th or 8th, you aim for higher. So - is he out of his depth or isn't he? Yes, in the sense he'll never build a sustainable attacking philosophy with a squad that is clearly capable of it. That wasn't the question - nor was it part of the debate. However - how many Newcastle managers in the last 50 years met the above requirements? I answered your question. No - you changed the question to meet an agenda - the debate was nothing to do with style or philosophy it was to do with whether Pardew was out of his depth given the aforementioned remit. i.e Does Alan Pardew have the knowledge & skill to take the current team to a top ten finish. actually it wasn't, you brought the "remit" into it and that's how you're judging him - it's not the only way to judge him, the "remit" provided by the fucking arsehole who owns the club and has repeatedly shown he knows nothing about football so in fact you changed things by introducing what you consider to be an acceptable remit, many of us don't think that's all there is to it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 That's the problem though isn't it? He's a confidence manager and one or two losses has him scratching his head and thinking its all gone to shit so he has to change it, then it's a case of damage limitation in every game. We saw it all last season and it's creeped into his game again after a few losses on the bounce. It honestly makes me fearful for the rest of the season now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 FA Cup : Not Applicable League Cup : Not Applicable also, can you imagine pardiola being interviewed for his next job, what would it say about the integrity of him as a football manager if they ask him about the cups? "mike said he didn't care about them, so i let down 50,000 paying customers on a regular basis" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 There's also the possibility that the 'remit' is one created with a limited manager out of his depth? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 That's the problem though isn't it? He's a confidence manager and one or two losses has him scratching his head and thinking its all gone to shit so he has to change it, then it's a case of damage limitation in every game. We saw it all last season and it's creeped into his game again after a few losses on the bounce. It honestly makes me fearful for the rest of the season now. tentatively agree, if he doesn't turn it quickly with a result he'll be back to howard hughes territory probably Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 He's not out of his depths at all. pardew? Of course he's not. i guess there will be no concurrence on this matter then, 'cause he's out of his depths imho top tier championship manager in charge of international footballers and our position and performances reflect this fairly accurately tbh Remit - League : Finish Top 10 FA Cup : Not Applicable League Cup : Not Applicable To say he's out of his depth is utterly laughable. People also have a habit of massively over rating our squad. We could probably this year 7th at best and if we had a really bad season 13th-14th. You know when people talk about ridiculous expectations - they're talking about you. The irony is the expectation is a product of Pardew's own high performance but that's no doubt lost on you. Ridiculous expectations is expecting the 7th or 8th best squad in the league to present a challenge to the top 6 and maybe not go out of every cup at the first or second hurdle every year. If you want to point fingers, then people like you are why those running NUFC have been able to get away with taking the p*ss out of fans for so long. Our squad isn't as good as you think - but we are challenging the top 6 - obviously. You're just helping me make my point. Oh and that highlighted section ;D ;D ;D Challenging the top 6, yeah. If you're the 7th or 8th best squad in the country then you don't aim for 7th or 8th, you aim for higher. So - is he out of his depth or isn't he? Yes, in the sense he'll never build a sustainable attacking philosophy with a squad that is clearly capable of it. That wasn't the question - nor was it part of the debate. However - how many Newcastle managers in the last 50 years met the above requirements? I answered your question. No - you changed the question to meet an agenda - the debate was nothing to do with style or philosophy it was to do with whether Pardew was out of his depth given the aforementioned remit. i.e Does Alan Pardew have the knowledge & skill to take the current team to a top ten finish. That team would most likely finish in the top 10 if Joe Kinnear was in charge. Would that mean he's not out of his depth either? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 There's also the possibility that the 'remit' is one created with a limited manager out of his depth? Yep, who is easy to control. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 He's not out of his depths at all. pardew? Of course he's not. i guess there will be no concurrence on this matter then, 'cause he's out of his depths imho top tier championship manager in charge of international footballers and our position and performances reflect this fairly accurately tbh Remit - League : Finish Top 10 FA Cup : Not Applicable League Cup : Not Applicable To say he's out of his depth is utterly laughable. People also have a habit of massively over rating our squad. We could probably this year 7th at best and if we had a really bad season 13th-14th. You know when people talk about ridiculous expectations - they're talking about you. The irony is the expectation is a product of Pardew's own high performance but that's no doubt lost on you. Ridiculous expectations is expecting the 7th or 8th best squad in the league to present a challenge to the top 6 and maybe not go out of every cup at the first or second hurdle every year. If you want to point fingers, then people like you are why those running NUFC have been able to get away with taking the p*ss out of fans for so long. Our squad isn't as good as you think - but we are challenging the top 6 - obviously. You're just helping me make my point. Oh and that highlighted section ;D ;D ;D I'd say the squad is better than many give it credit for. Plenty of experienced internationals (Colo, Debuchy, Santon, Cabaye, Tiote, Jonas, HBA, Remy, Cisse, Sissoko, Anita, Yanga-Mbiwa) and some solid, experienced pro's too (Willo, Saylor, Raylor etc). If you think what a positive manager could do with them it's gutting. SBR or KK would have us battling the top 4 every year with this squad purely by going after teams and putting them on the back foot. AP worries too much about others and overlooks our own strengths. We've got the same issues now as we had two years ago. No fluidity, no attacking mentality and no cohesion in the approach to the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 The silly thing about it is Pardew himself is the one showing the players are capable of more. The entire reason people get on his case, is because he has had all the things we criticise him for working well enough at some point for comparison. People are always going to berate 2nd halves when they contrast so strongly to how he has us playing in the 1st. Same with Ben Arfa a couple seasons ago, same with us beating top sides & then holding on against the weaker ones. He creates the negative contrast himself, his mentality holds back what he himself has shown is possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chizzletooth Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 He's not out of his depths at all. pardew? Of course he's not. i guess there will be no concurrence on this matter then, 'cause he's out of his depths imho top tier championship manager in charge of international footballers and our position and performances reflect this fairly accurately tbh Remit - League : Finish Top 10 FA Cup : Not Applicable League Cup : Not Applicable To say he's out of his depth is utterly laughable. People also have a habit of massively over rating our squad. We could probably this year 7th at best and if we had a really bad season 13th-14th. You know when people talk about ridiculous expectations - they're talking about you. The irony is the expectation is a product of Pardew's own high performance but that's no doubt lost on you. Ridiculous expectations is expecting the 7th or 8th best squad in the league to present a challenge to the top 6 and maybe not go out of every cup at the first or second hurdle every year. If you want to point fingers, then people like you are why those running NUFC have been able to get away with taking the p*ss out of fans for so long. Our squad isn't as good as you think - but we are challenging the top 6 - obviously. You're just helping me make my point. Oh and that highlighted section ;D ;D ;D I'd say the squad is better than many give it credit for. Plenty of experienced internationals (Colo, Debuchy, Santon, Cabaye, Tiote, Jonas, HBA, Remy, Cisse, Sissoko, Anita, Yanga-Mbiwa) and some solid, experienced pro's too (Willo, Saylor, Raylor etc). If you think what a positive manager could do with them it's gutting. SBR or KK would have us battling the top 4 every year with this squad purely by going after teams and putting them on the back foot. AP worries too much about others and overlooks our own strengths. We've got the same issues now as we had two years ago. No fluidity, no attacking mentality and no cohesion in the approach to the game. That's a very bold assertion to make. I couldn't see any manager challenging the top four with this squad personally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Think you have to doubt Williamson would be getting classed as "Experienced pro" under many managers. You cant take all credit from Pardew, he has previously raised performances from weaker players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 He's not out of his depths at all. pardew? Of course he's not. i guess there will be no concurrence on this matter then, 'cause he's out of his depths imho top tier championship manager in charge of international footballers and our position and performances reflect this fairly accurately tbh Remit - League : Finish Top 10 FA Cup : Not Applicable League Cup : Not Applicable To say he's out of his depth is utterly laughable. People also have a habit of massively over rating our squad. We could probably this year 7th at best and if we had a really bad season 13th-14th. You know when people talk about ridiculous expectations - they're talking about you. The irony is the expectation is a product of Pardew's own high performance but that's no doubt lost on you. Ridiculous expectations is expecting the 7th or 8th best squad in the league to present a challenge to the top 6 and maybe not go out of every cup at the first or second hurdle every year. If you want to point fingers, then people like you are why those running NUFC have been able to get away with taking the p*ss out of fans for so long. Our squad isn't as good as you think - but we are challenging the top 6 - obviously. You're just helping me make my point. Oh and that highlighted section ;D ;D ;D I'd say the squad is better than many give it credit for. Plenty of experienced internationals (Colo, Debuchy, Santon, Cabaye, Tiote, Jonas, HBA, Remy, Cisse, Sissoko, Anita, Yanga-Mbiwa) and some solid, experienced pro's too (Willo, Saylor, Raylor etc). If you think what a positive manager could do with them it's gutting. SBR or KK would have us battling the top 4 every year with this squad purely by going after teams and putting them on the back foot. AP worries too much about others and overlooks our own strengths. We've got the same issues now as we had two years ago. No fluidity, no attacking mentality and no cohesion in the approach to the game. That's a very bold assertion to make. I couldn't see any manager challenging the top four with this squad personally. We were battling the top 4 two seasons ago with a worse squad, so I can see where he's coming from. Battling doesn't mean getting into the top 4 btw, just making them look over their shoulder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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