TRon Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 At least 3 of those should have arrived 5 months earlier though which isn't Pardew's fault. His overall record since Villa which is when they came into the team properly is : P 32 W 15, D 5, L 12 Pts 50 (averages out to just over 59pts over a season). That suggests to me if we'd given him the squad he got in January, last summer when Ashley/Llambias should have done this, we'd have been more than comfortable. how does any of that change what i've said? i agree he's fine when he's got the minimum he feels he needs to work with, when he doesn't have that he'll struggle (last season) - this is all i'm saying really...if we get crippled over xmas with 7 injuries and suspensions he'll not be able to muster up some amazing performances from the meager tools at his disposal, that's just not his thing this season he's had plenty of options and has done well there's no controversy here The main thing he's got right is that he's allowing us to play the sort of football that suits the type of players we are recruiting. It's took a while, but we look a million times better for it. Whether he'll be able to build on it and hold firm when we get a few setbacks is the key. I'm still not convinced he'll be able to adjust to other managers changes during games but at least the players look like they are enjoying the chance to show off their passing skills. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 At least 3 of those should have arrived 5 months earlier though which isn't Pardew's fault. His overall record since Villa which is when they came into the team properly is : P 32 W 15, D 5, L 12 Pts 50 (averages out to just over 59pts over a season). That suggests to me if we'd given him the squad he got in January, last summer when Ashley/Llambias should have done this, we'd have been more than comfortable. how does any of that change what i've said? i agree he's fine when he's got the minimum he feels he needs to work with, when he doesn't have that he'll struggle (last season) - this is all i'm saying really...if we get crippled over xmas with 7 injuries and suspensions he'll not be able to muster up some amazing performances from the meager tools at his disposal, that's just not his thing this season he's had plenty of options and has done well there's no controversy here The main thing he's got right is that he's allowing us to play the sort of football that suits the type of players we are recruiting. It's took a while, but we look a million times better for it. Whether he'll be able to build on it and hold firm when we get a few setbacks is the key. I'm still not convinced he'll be able to adjust to other managers changes during games but at least the players look like they are enjoying the chance to show off their passing skills. Yep. He needs to stick with it though, he abandoned it at home to Southampton which just didn't make sense. So far he's seemed reluctant to let us play our football in the games he's really scared to lose, it's just counter productive and the sign of a scared manager (which is ludicrous considering he wasn't sacked last season, his job is one of the safest around). He's been mentioning the style of play in interviews a lot, so hopefully the penny has dropped for good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Let's face it, if Pardew had been replaced in the summer and a new manager had had exactly the same season we've had so far, everyone would have been singing his praises for weeks already. You're probably right but a new manager would have come in and would have had to learn the strengths and weaknesses of the players before finding a way to control a game. Pardew knew what he had and it still took him 15 games to do that and he abandoned it for game 16 only to bring it back, thankfully, for game 17. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Agree with TRon and Venkman, be a massive challenge for him to try to stick to the style and gameplan when he's stripped of a number of key players. To date he's always reverted to shitball when this has happened. Which is more or less what I started saying in the first place, desperate apparently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Assuming that's what he meant, and I don't think it is, what does it have to do with pardew not being able to perform when he's hit by them? Nothing, it looks like an attempt to change history. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Let's face it, if Pardew had been replaced in the summer and a new manager had had exactly the same season we've had so far, everyone would have been singing his praises for weeks already. You're probably right but a new manager would have come in and would have had to learn the strengths and weaknesses of the players before finding a way to control a game. Pardew knew what he had and it still took him 15 games to do that and he abandoned it for game 16 only to bring it back, thankfully, for game 17. But that's not assessing the strengths and weaknesses of the players. It's not as simple as saying, 'we should play this style all the time', because that doesn't necessarily suit our personnel when taking into account the opposition and their style, strengths and weaknesses. We've shown we can play possession football to frustrate teams away from home but we've not shown that it's something we can do when we need play through teams that look to shut space down, especially when they come to our place. I don't think we've got enough specialists in tight areas to really make it our proper philosophy. We've seen lots of teams come here over the last few years and look to give us the ball, frustrate and catch us on the break and we've often looked a bit clueless in terms of breaking those barriers down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Pardew is just hyper cautious, he won't set us up well if he's frightened of losing, and when we were in relegation trouble he was too frightened to get us to attack properly. However now relegation fears are largely gone (it'd be pretty crazy for us to go down with 30 points now) he really shouldn't be scared of losing too much. There was no expectation of european footy at start of season and now we might as well just go for it, our huge late season run 2 seasons ago started when we hit 40 points, and also because we were playing like we were having fun we also had a habit of some awful loses which will happen again. If we aren't so scared and keep up attacking and playing proper footy we will finish with a very good points total, and hopefully (lol probably not) Pardew will begin to have faith that that is how we should always play, and as long as we do that we won't go down again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 But that's not assessing the strengths and weaknesses of the players. It's not as simple as saying, 'we should play this style all the time', because that doesn't necessarily suit our personnel when taking into account the opposition and their style, strengths and weaknesses. We've shown we can play possession football to frustrate teams away from home but we've not shown that it's something we can do when we need play through teams that look to shut space down, especially when they come to our place. I don't think we've got enough specialists in tight areas to really make it our proper philosophy. We've seen lots of teams come here over the last few years and look to give us the ball, frustrate and catch us on the break and we've often looked a bit clueless in terms of breaking those barriers down. We spend so much time worrying about the opposition that we don't have a style of play that we can call our own. The main reason we've often looked clueless is because we don't have a well known way of playing which the players know well enough and that's part of why we had a season like last. We tried to work on the weaknesses of the opposition instead of our own strengths. Our players are suited to playing the type of game we played against Man U and Palace and that's why it worked for us. The better teams have a style of play that they know and that suits the players they have, we need the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 At least 3 of those should have arrived 5 months earlier though which isn't Pardew's fault. His overall record since Villa which is when they came into the team properly is : P 32 W 15, D 5, L 12 Pts 50 (averages out to just over 59pts over a season). That suggests to me if we'd given him the squad he got in January, last summer when Ashley/Llambias should have done this, we'd have been more than comfortable. That run of form between drawing at Anfield and beating Villa with the new signings was wretched. That's not to defend him because he was woeful for the most part last season and was very lucky to keep his job imo. He should have still done better with what he had. Last season he said we were challenging for the CL, he either believed that or he shouldn't have said it because he ended up looking like a tool. He can't win though can he? Mentions champions league and he is a tool, plays it down a bit and he is licking Ashley's arse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 He can't win though can he? Mentions champions league and he is a tool, plays it down a bit and he is licking Ashley's arse. He can't win because he doesn't know when or how to keep his mouth shut. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 He can't win though can he? Mentions champions league and he is a tool, plays it down a bit and he is licking Ashley's arse. He can't win because he doesn't know when or how to keep his mouth shut. Mick won't give an inch will he Sort of don't blame Mick but is being a tad harsh there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 ManU - Cabaye scores a deflected goal where the bounce from the deflection beats the keeper. Southampton - Gouffran scored a goal after a ridiculously sliced clearance from the centreback gives him an easy finish. Crystal Palace - another deflected goal from Cabaye, pretty much the same as against ManU, and then an own goal to finish the opposition off (no chance they were coming back from 2-0). A few weeks ago prior to the ManU game there was a discussion on here how in some of our eyes Pardew is arguably the luckiest manager in the league. Given the responses from some of those who disagreed at the time on the basis that luck involves things like deflections, surely this latest run of games pretty much should have changed a few minds at least? FWIW we deserved the win as we were the vastly superior team and were unlucky to not score more, and I liked his positive substitutions. However it still feels like we're in a purple patch at the moment and that we're getting the rub of the green (maybe not so much against Palace as we should have scored more anyway), hence why I'm hesitant to wax lyrical about our recent form under Pardew. Furthermore, I still don't think the way we're playing at the moment is getting the best out of our players, even if the results suggest otherwise at this point in time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 He can't win though can he? Mentions champions league and he is a tool, plays it down a bit and he is licking Ashley's arse. He can't win because he doesn't know when or how to keep his mouth shut. Mick won't give an inch will he Sort of don't blame Mick but is being a tad harsh there I have criticised Pardew a lot for his cowardice but he really can't win with some. If he can't win saying we would make champions league but is also criticised claiming we can't compete with 'sovereign states' how specific does he have to be for some to be happy with him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Mick won't give an inch will he Sort of don't blame Mick but is being a tad harsh there I'm more than happy with what he's had us doing in our last 2 away games when we've been excellent and I hope that we carry on playing the way that I think we can. He's actually doing what the "haters" wanted him to do and it's paying off, long may it continue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I have criticised Pardew a lot for his cowardice but he really can't win with some. If he can't win saying we would make champions league but is also criticised claiming we can't compete with 'sovereign states' how specific does he have to be for some to be happy with him? You've just mentioned two claims from him that are polar opposites, he can't win with some because he talks shit and you've just proven that yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I have criticised Pardew a lot for his cowardice but he really can't win with some. If he can't win saying we would make champions league but is also criticised claiming we can't compete with 'sovereign states' how specific does he have to be for some to be happy with him? You've just mentioned two claims from him that are polar opposites, he can't win with some because he talks shit and you've just proven that yourself. I have said before I will ignore his bullshit because it is exactly that, people like you will slate him no matter which end of the positive/negative spectrum his comments fall. Why not do the same rather than getting yourself riled up every time he speaks? You just seem so desperate to slag him (and every other manager off) you are predisposed to getting angry every chance you get. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I have criticised Pardew a lot for his cowardice but he really can't win with some. If he can't win saying we would make champions league but is also criticised claiming we can't compete with 'sovereign states' how specific does he have to be for some to be happy with him? You've just mentioned two claims from him that are polar opposites, he can't win with some because he talks s*** and you've just proven that yourself. I have said before I will ignore his bullshit because it is exactly that, people like you will slate him no matter which end of the positive/negative spectrum his comments fall. Why not do the same rather than getting yourself riled up every time he speaks? You just seem so desperate to slag him (and every other manager off) you are predisposed to getting angry every chance you get. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 He is perpetually full of shit but I find it hard to get angry with that considering the torrent of questions asked him all the time in press. It's when he's either sucking up to ashley or when he's trying to sell our best players is when he does get me wound up. Getting into europe or not? Bleh load of nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I have said before I will ignore his bullshit because it is exactly that, people like you will slate him no matter which end of the positive/negative spectrum his comments fall. Why not do the same rather than getting yourself riled up every time he speaks? You just seem so desperate to slag him (and every other manager off) you are predisposed to getting angry every chance you get. The arrogance of that post. You act a certain way so others should do the same. You know how others feel by reading a post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I have said before I will ignore his bullshit because it is exactly that, people like you will slate him no matter which end of the positive/negative spectrum his comments fall. Why not do the same rather than getting yourself riled up every time he speaks? You just seem so desperate to slag him (and every other manager off) you are predisposed to getting angry every chance you get. The arrogance of that post. You act a certain way so others should do the same. You know how others feel by reading a post. You'd probably enjoy it more if you weren't so desperate to be angry, just saying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 ManU - Cabaye scores a deflected goal where the bounce from the deflection beats the keeper. Southampton - Gouffran scored a goal after a ridiculously sliced clearance from the centreback gives him an easy finish. Crystal Palace - another deflected goal from Cabaye, pretty much the same as against ManU, and then an own goal to finish the opposition off (no chance they were coming back from 2-0). A few weeks ago prior to the ManU game there was a discussion on here how in some of our eyes Pardew is arguably the luckiest manager in the league. Given the responses from some of those who disagreed at the time on the basis that luck involves things like deflections, surely this latest run of games pretty much should have changed a few minds at least? FWIW we deserved the win as we were the vastly superior team and were unlucky to not score more, and I liked his positive substitutions. However it still feels like we're in a purple patch at the moment and that we're getting the rub of the green (maybe not so much against Palace as we should have scored more anyway), hence why I'm hesitant to wax lyrical about our recent form under Pardew. Furthermore, I still don't think the way we're playing at the moment is getting the best out of our players, even if the results suggest otherwise at this point in time. That's what I noticed as well, and why I mentioned a couple of times yesterday that while our general passing is great, we don't really seem to have much threat up front as a result of it. Part of that is down to having two right footed players on the left, so we rarely get a worthwhile cross in, and we are still missing a central striker who will get on the end of the crosses which do come in. I'm not sure there's much Pardew can do about the striker though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 You'd probably enjoy it more if you weren't so desperate to be angry, just saying. Where have I said that I was angry? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 ManU - Cabaye scores a deflected goal where the bounce from the deflection beats the keeper. Southampton - Gouffran scored a goal after a ridiculously sliced clearance from the centreback gives him an easy finish. Crystal Palace - another deflected goal from Cabaye, pretty much the same as against ManU, and then an own goal to finish the opposition off (no chance they were coming back from 2-0). A few weeks ago prior to the ManU game there was a discussion on here how in some of our eyes Pardew is arguably the luckiest manager in the league. Given the responses from some of those who disagreed at the time on the basis that luck involves things like deflections, surely this latest run of games pretty much should have changed a few minds at least? FWIW we deserved the win as we were the vastly superior team and were unlucky to not score more, and I liked his positive substitutions. However it still feels like we're in a purple patch at the moment and that we're getting the rub of the green (maybe not so much against Palace as we should have scored more anyway), hence why I'm hesitant to wax lyrical about our recent form under Pardew. Furthermore, I still don't think the way we're playing at the moment is getting the best out of our players, even if the results suggest otherwise at this point in time. Probably this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Bailey Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Still a cunt, but fair play to the shit. Merry Christmas Alan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Flukiest fucker in football, marra. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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