Manchester United

[Tsunami]

It’s terrible PR but I’m staggered if Bryan Robson and Denis Irwin are in need of charity or what a portion of 40k would do for their particular plight.

[midds]

I can understand the need to minimise waste and if there's savings that can be made then he's somewhat justified in doing it. Problem is where you look to save the money and is the negative PR it attracts worth the (relatively) small amount you save. 

 

It's like trying to lose weight by chopping your leg off

[Cronky]

I think he just likes to throw his weight around.

[lovejoy]

39 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

It’s terrible PR but I’m staggered if Bryan Robson and Denis Irwin are in need of charity or what a portion of 40k would do for their particular plight.

 

 

They'll be involved in the fundraising element, rather then being beneficiaries. 

[Joelinton7]

 

[Froggy]

56 minutes ago, Cronky said:

 

It's not just the manager though, it's the situation in which he finds himself. Whether it's all salvagable I doubt, but if so, I think three things need to happen.

 

1) His body language and his public statements need to be a lot more positive, whatever he's feeling inside. Stuff like 'one of the worst situations in the club's history' will not help to inspire the players. Or himself for that matter.

 

2) I think his project of bringing in a new system has to be parked until the summer, when he'll have more opportunity to change the squad around. If his current time is as restricted as he says, it makes no sense to institute major changes. Harry Maguire has talked about concentrating on the basics, and that sounds sensible to me. At the moment, it looks like a classic case of a new manager trying to change too much too soon.

 

3) He needs to get rid of Rashford. That won't be easy, because no club in their right mind is going to shell out a £50m transfer fee and 300 grand a week in wages. He will need the support of those above him, who won't like taking the hit. There also seem to be journos out there who are happy to keep this pot boiling by taking Rashford's side. However, you have a senior player who is not pulling his weight and who has reacted to being dropped by saying he wants to move. It's a team game and he has to go.

 

Good luck (after Monday).

 

He just seems like a very honest manager. I don't hate that he's answering questions with the truth. 

 

You're only seeing clips of what he's saying as well, as the media will snip the negative bits for headlines. There is plenty of positivity coming from him. 

 

I disagree with changing his ideas temporarily as well. He's addressed this a lot. It's better to implement this system now and suffer short term instead of bluffing our way into Europe playing hero ball with Fernandes and Rashford. We'll just be back to square one at the start of next season. 

 

Fully agree on your points about Rashford though. His sale benefits us in every way possible. The team, the negativity in the media, the money aspect etc. He has to go. Even when he's not playing it's a dark cloud over every game and the first question Amorim is asked is usually about Rashford. 

[Froggy]

53 minutes ago, midds said:

I can understand the need to minimise waste and if there's savings that can be made then he's somewhat justified in doing it. Problem is where you look to save the money and is the negative PR it attracts worth the (relatively) small amount you save. 

 

It's like trying to lose weight by chopping your leg off

 

I didn't hate the staff cuts, or getting rid of the retainers on Fergie/Gill etc. I think given the financial state of the club they were necessary cuts. 

 

It's went a bit too far though with the Christmas bonuses for stewards etc. being taken away. Way too much negative PR for such minimal savings, as you've already said. 

[Big River]

here @Froggy

 

you’re shite

[Abacus]

11 hours ago, Froggy said:

 

Too many games. Can't risk burnout or injuries by having a ton of training sessions in between two games every week can you? 

 

That's the joys of playing in Europe. 

 

It's something your manager has said - too many games to be able to change things, no time to train between games to get players up to speed or play a new system. No argument there with Europe an active disadvantage, not that I wouldn't love to be in it.

 

He's also come in with no pre-season and a squad he didn't buy or train, plus a DOF who has been sacked so no support in a new league to him, in probably the most pressured football role in the world.

 

Think Amorim needs a break from criticism really. Don't like watching him looking lost even though he's telling the truth, but he does come across as being beaten.

 

But then as you say I do also think those quotes are being used with malice in the press to create headlines / a narrative. Headline in the paper a couple of days ago was saying his aim was survival - I don't think he meant in the league, I think he was talking game by game, but the article left that hanging.

 

Yet far more importantly, what has the 'takeover' actually changed for Man U? 

 

I'd chortle harder if we hadn't seen it at our club. Don't know how the owner situation has improved things for Man U and I think that has an effect right through a club.

[Sibierski]

17 hours ago, KaKa said:

If the team keeps losing games, will they just keep him in there regardless?

No, he’ll be sacked. Man Utd fans will want to believe their narrative that this is open heart surgery, going to painful before it gets better, going to take time.

 

But I can sure as hell guarantee, Ratcliffe has not bought Man Utd for big money just to improve processes etc. he’ll be wanting to be at the top table, winning the top competitions and if that’s not coming, people will be losing their jobs. Whether that’s Wilcox / Brailsford etc or Amorim, time will tell, but it’s often the manager that goes. 
 

Ashworth has already been discarded by Ratcliffe for seemingly not doing what was expected. So what’s there to believe if Amorim finishes 10th he keeps his job? Europa may save him, but then what happened with ETH may go against Amorim, as in “Don’t let a cup win influence the decision if league form has been shit”.

[Ben]

2 hours ago, Froggy said:

 

No. We need to sell to buy. 

 

Oh dear might be in a bit of bother there then 

[Froggy]

Just now, Abacus said:

Think Amorim needs a break from criticism really. Don't like watching him looking lost even though he's telling the truth, but he does come across as being beaten.

 

Nobody is actually being critical of Amorim though. As I've said a few times lately, football fans are just fickle. 

 

Our fans and opposition fans have been critical of our style of play or lack of over the last couple of seasons. Now we've got a manager with a crystal clear style of play and people are already suggesting he abandon his way of playing for a more pragmatic style. 

 

Ten Hag was slaughtered for doing that. I don't know why people can't be patient. It's December. Amorim signed in November.

[PRL]

6 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

He just seems like a very honest manager. I don't hate that he's answering questions with the truth. 

 

You're only seeing clips of what he's saying as well, as the media will snip the negative bits for headlines. There is plenty of positivity coming from him. 

 

I disagree with changing his ideas temporarily as well. He's addressed this a lot. It's better to implement this system now and suffer short term instead of bluffing our way into Europe playing hero ball with Fernandes and Rashford. We'll just be back to square one at the start of next season. 

 

Fully agree on your points about Rashford though. His sale benefits us in every way possible. The team, the negativity in the media, the money aspect etc. He has to go. Even when he's not playing it's a dark cloud over every game and the first question Amorim is asked is usually about Rashford. 

Completely see what you’re saying here, but I do think in these circumstances there is such a thing as being too honest. Either the press officer or him needs to just refer back to prior answers to the same question or stonewall it. Right from saying he didn’t really want to come in during mid season but was given no option I think he’s said a bit too much. I admire that in him and think it shows he’s a good bloke, but too often in football, particularly when a club has some toxicity around it, honesty is mistaken for weakness and prayed upon. 
 

Similarly, completely understand the desire to move to a new formation asap and not suggesting waiting until pre-season, but as he’s acknowledged he’s had 4 training sessions in a month and Maguire says that he is asking players to do completely the opposite to what ETH asked them to do. Wouldn’t it be sensible to phase the change over, to be pragmatic if only for a matter of weeks, until he can get the players on the training pitch and properly instil his ideas and philosophies? Trying to do this with no capacity to properly train does not seem to be working. Maybe the 5 days he has had between games now will show a marked difference, but with the suspensions and injuries you have it will be makeshift regardless. I think he’s painted himself into a corner on this and has no option but to continue down the path he is on, but I think this was a mistake and one he’ll regret being so adamant about. After all, if he was willing to bend on being available mid season rather than end of season to get the job, maybe he should relent slightly on the formation to keep it. 

[Froggy]

4 minutes ago, Sibierski said:

No, he’ll be sacked. Man Utd fans will want to believe their narrative that this is open heart surgery, going to painful before it gets better, going to take time.

 

But I can sure as hell guarantee, Ratcliffe has not bought Man Utd for big money just to improve processes etc. he’ll be wanting to be at the top table, winning the top competitions and if that’s not coming, people will be losing their jobs. Whether that’s Wilcox / Brailsford etc or Amorim, time will tell, but it’s often the manager that goes. 
 

Ashworth has already been discarded by Ratcliffe for seemingly not doing what was expected. So what’s there to believe if Amorim finishes 10th he keeps his job? Europa may save him, but then what happened with ETH may go against Amorim, as in “Don’t let a cup win influence the decision if league form has been shit”.

 

There is absolutely no chance Amorim gets sacked. The only situation where that's a realistic possibility is if we're in the Championship next season. 

 

The negotiations with him were long. Everyone knew the situation he was taking over. 

[NE27]

Just now, Froggy said:

 

The negotiations with him were long. Everyone knew the situation he was taking over. 

 

As long as the Dan ashworth talks?

[BlazeT44]

Just now, NE27 said:

 

As long as the Dan ashworth talks?

 

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, PRL said:

Completely see what you’re saying here, but I do think in these circumstances there is such a thing as being too honest. Either the press officer or him needs to just refer back to prior answers to the same question or stonewall it. Right from saying he didn’t really want to come in during mid season but was given no option I think he’s said a bit too much. I admire that in him and think it shows he’s a good bloke, but too often in football, particularly when a club has some toxicity around it, honesty is mistaken for weakness and prayed upon. 
 

Similarly, completely understand the desire to move to a new formation asap and not suggesting waiting until pre-season, but as he’s acknowledged he’s had 4 training sessions in a month and Maguire says that he is asking players to do completely the opposite to what ETH asked them to do. Wouldn’t it be sensible to phase the change over, to be pragmatic if only for a matter of weeks, until he can get the players on the training pitch and properly instil his ideas and philosophies? Trying to do this with no capacity to properly train does not seem to be working. Maybe the 5 days he has had between games now will show a marked difference, but with the suspensions and injuries you have it will be makeshift regardless. I think he’s painted himself into a corner on this and has no option but to continue down the path he is on, but I think this was a mistake and one he’ll regret being so adamant about. After all, if he was willing to bend on being available mid season rather than end of season to get the job, maybe he should relent slightly on the formation to keep it. 

 

I would agree that he maybe shouldn't have said he was given an ultimatum of coming mid season or not at all. That's the only thing so far where I've thought, "he maybe shouldn't have said that."

 

But honestly it's just refreshing to have a manager with some charisma combined with a backbone that allows him to stand up to plays like Rashford and Garnacho and punish them for being pricks. 

 

I am 100% with him on the formation though. I'd hate if he changed it. If he decides to play a 4-4-2 counter attacking formation just to try and get points on the board I would feel like he's already failed and his time is limited. 

[Abacus]

1 minute ago, Froggy said:

 

Nobody is actually being critical of Amorim though. As I've said a few times lately, football fans are just fickle. 

 

Our fans and opposition fans have been critical of our style of play or lack of over the last couple of seasons. Now we've got a manager with a crystal clear style of play and people are already suggesting he abandon his way of playing for a more pragmatic style. 

 

Ten Hag was slaughtered for doing that. I don't know why people can't be patient. It's December. Amorim signed in November.

And I agree with this. But I also think he has been parachuted in at the wrong time to do something he doesn't have the resources or time to do, given expectations. The ten Hag dithering and taking Ashworth without seemingly knowing what he does suggests a club that isn't sure what to do.

 

None of that's on Amorim, which I guess your real fans understand also.

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, NE27 said:

As long as the Dan ashworth talks?

 

I mean, Ashworth was wanking himself off silly at the thought of coming to us. He was an instant yes. 

 

The negotiations were with the club over his exit fee, not with Ashworth himself. 

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, Abacus said:

And I agree with this. But I also think he has been parachuted in at the wrong time to do something he doesn't have the resources or time to do, given expectations. The ten Hag dithering and taking Ashworth without seemingly knowing what he does suggests a club that isn't sure what to do.

 

None of that's on Amorim, which I guess your real fans understand also.

 

But what are his expectations? This is what we don't know. I know supporters expectations are low. We expect Arsenal to knock us out of the cup, and we know we won't be anywhere near the top 4 in the league. Most of us are hoping for an uptick in form and a reasonable challenge made in the Europa League. 

 

Every man and his dog knows that the culture is absolutely fucked at the club as well. A proper deep rot. We need to allow a manager to change it at some point. A manager with unwavering ideas is what we need I think. Anyone who isn't up to it, see you later. 

 

I said to mates previously, I'd happily take 14th for a season or two if it meant we cleared out the trash(ford) and reset the wage structure etc. There's £1.5m or so a week in wages being paid for players who either don't play or can't stay fit. It's going to take some time for Amorim to sort that out. 

 

Honestly if Ratcliffe sacked Amorim as as quick as he sacked Ashworth, I might just support Newcastle. As Eddie Howe is the kind of manager I've always wanted since Fergie left, and I believe Amorim and Howe are similar in many ways. I'd be beyond gutted.

[Sibierski]

9 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

There is absolutely no chance Amorim gets sacked. The only situation where that's a realistic possibility is if we're in the Championship next season. 

 

The negotiations with him were long. Everyone knew the situation he was taking over. 

There’s a difference to knowing the situation and the results that come afterwards.

 

Like I said, I think it’s very much head in sands if Man Utd fans think Ratcliffe will be happy to write off a season and there’s no consequences. 
 

Amorim is likely a good coach, don’t have the success over many domestic seasons as he’s had and not be. But that doesn’t always automatically translate to other sides / domestic leagues, and Ratcliffe will only be caring about the Ws on a sheet, in same way he only cares about the numbers on a spreadsheet when it comes to all these cost cutting measures.

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, Sibierski said:

There’s a difference to knowing the situation and the results that come afterwards.

 

Like I said, I think it’s very much head in sands if Man Utd fans think Ratcliffe will be happy to write off a season and there’s no consequences. 
 

Amorim is likely a good coach, don’t have the success over many domestic seasons as he’s had and not be. But that doesn’t always automatically translate to other sides / domestic leagues, and Ratcliffe will only be caring about the Ws on a sheet, in same way he only cares about the numbers on a spreadsheet when it comes to all these cost cutting measures.

 

I think Ratcliffe would have a fairly big revolt on his hands if this is route he goes down. 

 

With the rise in ticket prices, I think you'd see Old Trafford start to empty. This is a coach we've really, really taken to. 

[Erikse]

28 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

There is absolutely no chance Amorim gets sacked. The only situation where that's a realistic possibility is if we're in the Championship next season. 

 

The negotiations with him were long. Everyone knew the situation he was taking over. 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2024 by Erikse

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

18 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Honestly if Ratcliffe sacked Amorim as as quick as he sacked Ashworth, I might just support Newcastle. As Eddie Howe is the kind of manager I've always wanted since Fergie left, and I believe Amorim and Howe are similar in many ways. I'd be beyond gutted.

[Erikse]

Judging by froggys quores here, it's safe to say that Amorim gets an early sacking and that Ugarte turns out to be a flop.