joeyt Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 He rarely got chance to prove the manager wrong because he was regularly dropped to the bench, even after playing well in previous games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 It's always the same Ben Arfa wasn't that effective/was a 1 in 10 player. You're wrong, here's why. Oh aye, couldn't get a game at (Title winning, Champions League challenging, world's richest club) PSG though could he!? Can't be as good as you say! (i.e. Better than everyone else in our squad) Can't blame Pardew for everything! ( i.e. Playing Ryan Taylor, SAmeobi, Obertan etc ahead of the best player in our squad) Completely ignoring the much more comparable Nice, where he ripped it up. The arguments are just daft. Everyone knows he's a knacker. Him being a knacker at PSG is completely different to him being a knacker at Nice or Newcastle. Therefore yes, Pardew is to blame for choosing far, far worse players ahead of him and effectively hamstringing the team regardless of ability and output. I've said it a million times, but it sums it up that Ben Arfa was MOTM against Stoke - hit the woodwork twice, won a penalty, assisted in a 5-1 demolition and Pardew dropped him for the next match. I'm sure Ben Arfa's partly responsible though. :eyeroll: When he was first mentioned coming here I was practically wanking over it, telling all my mates how good he was, a frigging genius, which he could be. He started off that way aswell but as time went on, in the ground, I found myself screaming at him more and more, quite often for basics, standing still 30yds out unmarked while we attack down the other side (scored twice I think, Bolton and Villa away from actually moving, could have had a dozen more). Yes he should have played before Raylor et al (check the predicted team threads from around that time, I even lost a pint to Mick over being sure he'd play, which I still owe him actually), but fucking hell, look at how many games Joselu got and theres a fair possibility that his not starting then had as much to do with dressing room stuff. It could be quite telling that we are desperate for a no10, Ben Arfa wouldn't be expensive and Benitez won't touch him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 It was always a bit telling that the people who hated Ben Afra were the same people who saw Pardew through to the very end too like (Ian excluded). How many people actually 'hated' him though? Most of his critics, self included, would have loved to have seen him fulfil his talent, and felt very exasperated when it didn't happen. The difference is whether you see the problem as being with Ben Arfa, or with the various managers that he's fallen out with. Do you think Ben Arfa was more to 'blame' for how his Newcastle career went or Pardew? Ben Arfa has to take responsibility. His talent is obvious and I think Pardew, like a string of other managers, would have loved to have made use of it. Pardew seems to have taken a lot of the blame for demoralising Ben Arfa by dropping him. Whether or not the dropping was justified, surely the reaction of a winner in that situation is to prove the manager wrong? The problem with Ben Arfa is that the minute anything goes against him, he falls into victim mode. to be honest, there was little of that victim mentality from hatem when pardew dropped him - just sheer anger and increduilty from both him and the fans. his passion for the team was never in doubt. he would then get brought on late in games and be expected to turn it round single handedly. ben arfa would then be left to look like a dick trying allsorts to get a goal back but failing miserably - then getting blamed - and then continuing to not be named in a starting line up and never being brought on early enough in a game to try and affect it. it was a bit like pardew saying - "see i brought him but he did fuck all." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nattfare Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 One game that stood out to me, can't remember who we were playing, where Ben Arfa was in our half pretty much the entire first half to defend. On the left side Gouffran had already gifted them two goals. Second half, Ben Arfa subbed and Gouffran played for 90 minutes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nattfare Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 to be honest, there was little of that victim mentality from hatem when pardew dropped him - just sheer anger and increduilty from both him and the fans. his passion for the team was never in doubt. he would then get brought on late in games and be expected to turn it round single handedly. ben arfa would then be left to look like a dick trying allsorts to get a goal back but failing miserably - then getting blamed - and then continuing to not be named in a starting line up and never being brought on early enough in a game to try and affect it. it was a bit like pardew saying - "see i brought him but he did fuck all." This as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 It was always a bit telling that the people who hated Ben Afra were the same people who saw Pardew through to the very end too like (Ian excluded). How many people actually 'hated' him though? Most of his critics, self included, would have loved to have seen him fulfil his talent, and felt very exasperated when it didn't happen. The difference is whether you see the problem as being with Ben Arfa, or with the various managers that he's fallen out with. Do you think Ben Arfa was more to 'blame' for how his Newcastle career went or Pardew? Ben Arfa has to take responsibility. His talent is obvious and I think Pardew, like a string of other managers, would have loved to have made use of it. Pardew seems to have taken a lot of the blame for demoralising Ben Arfa by dropping him. Whether or not the dropping was justified, surely the reaction of a winner in that situation is to prove the manager wrong? The problem with Ben Arfa is that the minute anything goes against him, he falls into victim mode. to be honest, there was little of that victim mentality from hatem when pardew dropped him - just sheer anger and increduilty from both him and the fans. his passion for the team was never in doubt. he would then get brought on late in games and be expected to turn it round single handedly. ben arfa would then be left to look like a dick trying allsorts to get a goal back but failing miserably - then getting blamed - and then continuing to not be named in a starting line up and never being brought on early enough in a game to try and affect it. it was a bit like pardew saying - "see i brought him but he did fuck all." Not to mention that our front foot fret meant he was generally picking the ball up 25 yards inside our own half and he still managed to make things happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveItIfWeBeatU Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Where he ends up and how long a contract that club give him will be a great indicator of how he's thought of in the world of football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Was that the same when he was signed by PSG? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 All I'm saying is this. The opportunity to sign Ben Arfa and get him match fit enough to start him vs West Brom with Benny pulling a Bolton goal and sending Pardew down at SJP is on the table. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 This thread never ceases to sadden me greatly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveItIfWeBeatU Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Was that the same when he was signed by PSG? He'd had a good season at Nice. He should have stayed there obviously. He's been frozen out at PSG. Let's see who the next club are willing to gamble on him. I'm sure there will be one but I doubt they'll risk giving him a multi year mega money contract. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Cannot believe this thread me like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 It was always a bit telling that the people who hated Ben Afra were the same people who saw Pardew through to the very end too like (Ian excluded). How many people actually 'hated' him though? Most of his critics, self included, would have loved to have seen him fulfil his talent, and felt very exasperated when it didn't happen. The difference is whether you see the problem as being with Ben Arfa, or with the various managers that he's fallen out with. Do you think Ben Arfa was more to 'blame' for how his Newcastle career went or Pardew? Ben Arfa has to take responsibility. His talent is obvious and I think Pardew, like a string of other managers, would have loved to have made use of it. Pardew seems to have taken a lot of the blame for demoralising Ben Arfa by dropping him. Whether or not the dropping was justified, surely the reaction of a winner in that situation is to prove the manager wrong? The problem with Ben Arfa is that the minute anything goes against him, he falls into victim mode. Pardew has the managerial ability of a condom. Once scorned you've no way back from that clueless narcissist. Doesn't excuse him elsewhere. Bad mix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinport53 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Was that the same when he was signed by PSG? He'd had a good season at Nice. He should have stayed there obviously. He's been frozen out at PSG. Let's see who the next club are willing to gamble on him. I'm sure there will be one but I doubt they'll risk giving him a multi year mega money contract. That'll be due to his age not his ability, no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 It was always a bit telling that the people who hated Ben Afra were the same people who saw Pardew through to the very end too like (Ian excluded). How many people actually 'hated' him though? Most of his critics, self included, would have loved to have seen him fulfil his talent, and felt very exasperated when it didn't happen. The difference is whether you see the problem as being with Ben Arfa, or with the various managers that he's fallen out with. Do you think Ben Arfa was more to 'blame' for how his Newcastle career went or Pardew? Ben Arfa has to take responsibility. His talent is obvious and I think Pardew, like a string of other managers, would have loved to have made use of it. Pardew seems to have taken a lot of the blame for demoralising Ben Arfa by dropping him. Whether or not the dropping was justified, surely the reaction of a winner in that situation is to prove the manager wrong? The problem with Ben Arfa is that the minute anything goes against him, he falls into victim mode. Pardew has the managerial ability of a condom. Once scorned you've no way back from that clueless narcissist. Doesn't excuse him elsewhere. Bad mix. Bad analogy. At least a condom can keep you safe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 He should've proven Pardew wrong. When did he have the chance? The same Pardew whose ego didn't utilise Javier Mascherano and Carlos Tevez when they were chucked in his lap. Who even this season has been lambasted by his own team's fans and his own team's players for his shit team selections. I don't care what did or didn't happen at other clubs. Hatem Ben Arfa never went to the press at NUFC and I don't recall any particular explosive behind the scenes stories other than snide, shitty little murmurs about how he was unpopular but no actual explanations as to why. He was also one of, if not our most productive player as explained by enough others in this thread, despite whatever bullshit people want to spout about him not being productive enough. Even still, if there were problems, it'd be the sort of problems that a team like us should've worked with. Because we won't get a player like him for a long time. Imagine him being jettisoned by Keegan or Sir Bobby because he was a bit more effort from a man management perspective. Fuck off. They'd have built their team around getting the most from a player like that. And that's why it's all Pardew's fault as far as I'm concerned. Because the egotistical prick would rather a power play for his own kicks than make the most of one of the most talented players he'll ever have had the fortune of working with in his disgusting, spunk encrusted excuse of a career. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveItIfWeBeatU Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Was that the same when he was signed by PSG? He'd had a good season at Nice. He should have stayed there obviously. He's been frozen out at PSG. Let's see who the next club are willing to gamble on him. I'm sure there will be one but I doubt they'll risk giving him a multi year mega money contract. That'll be due to his age not his ability, no? He hasn't played week in week out like a lot of players so the stresses on his body will have been less than for other 31 year old players. He's had long spells of not playing. Also, do you not accept that the fact that he usually leaves his clubs under a cloud won't have some influence on a club employing him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footsoldier Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Maybe 1 in 10 was an exaggeration. I'll cut it back to 1 in 5 but I think I am being generous. Perhaps that will stop all of you rabid ben arfa fans from getting your knickers in such a twist. My point is he disappeared in many more games than he was brilliant. And as I've said, on his day he could be brilliant but they were few and far between. On an off day he was rank. Rose tinted glasses and all that have kicked in. Who is to blame? Plenty to be shared for sure but the player has to bear the brunt of it even though he had a manager that was not the give us a cuddle and it will be alright next time type. Neither it seems were any of the others then apart from puel. We'll see what happens there. Unlike many on here it seems, I want a team of players who are consistently good. On their day very good and can compete with anybody. Bar Man City maybe . Do I appreciate skillful players who can mesmerize you? Of course but only if we have a team that can support their off days and win consistently over the season. And provided the player contributes more than he detracts when others have to carry him.. It is not a coincidence that ben arfa's career has been so underwhelming as he is a talented player but clearly not a player seen as a final piece of the jigsaw by most managers. Mostly down to a poor attitude and laziness I'd venture or he could've been so, so much better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinport53 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Maybe 1 in 10 was an exaggeration. I'll cut it back to 1 in 5 but I think I am being generous. Perhaps that will stop all of you rabid ben arfa fans from getting your knickers in such a twist. My point is he disappeared in many more games than he was brilliant. And as I've said, on his day he could be brilliant but they were few and far between. On an off day he was rank. Rose tinted glasses and all that have kicked in. Who is to blame? Plenty to be shared for sure but the player has to bear the brunt of it even though he had a manager that was not the give us a cuddle and it will be alright next time type. Neither it seems were any of the others then apart from puel. We'll see what happens there. Unlike many on here it seems, I want a team of players who are consistently good. On their day very good and can compete with anybody. Bar Man City maybe . Do I appreciate skillful players who can mesmerize you? Of course but only if we have a team that can support their off days and win consistently over the season. And provided the player contributes more than he detracts when others have to carry him.. It is not a coincidence that ben arfa's career has been so underwhelming as he is a talented player but clearly not a player seen as a final piece of the jigsaw by most managers. Mostly down to a poor attitude and laziness I'd venture or he could've been so, so much better. I'm sure stats show he got either a goal or assist every 3 games for us. So maybe cut it back again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Maybe 1 in 10 was an exaggeration. I'll cut it back to 1 in 5 but I think I am being generous. Perhaps that will stop all of you rabid ben arfa fans from getting your knickers in such a twist. My point is he disappeared in many more games than he was brilliant. And as I've said, on his day he could be brilliant but they were few and far between. On an off day he was rank. Rose tinted glasses and all that have kicked in. Who is to blame? Plenty to be shared for sure but the player has to bear the brunt of it even though he had a manager that was not the give us a cuddle and it will be alright next time type. Neither it seems were any of the others then apart from puel. We'll see what happens there. Unlike many on here it seems, I want a team of players who are consistently good. On their day very good and can compete with anybody. Bar Man City maybe . Do I appreciate skillful players who can mesmerize you? Of course but only if we have a team that can support their off days and win consistently over the season. And provided the player contributes more than he detracts when others have to carry him.. It is not a coincidence that ben arfa's career has been so underwhelming as he is a talented player but clearly not a player seen as a final piece of the jigsaw by most managers. Mostly down to a poor attitude and laziness I'd venture or he could've been so, so much better. I'm sure stats show he got either a goal or assist every 3 games for us. So maybe cut it back again. Was about to quote KI's post. Stopped reading as soon as he 'scaled it back' to something that is still complete bullshit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Let's also not forget that half the time he got the ball, the rest of our team just stood there waiting for 'magic' to happen, because John Carver worked on our attack twice a week. But yeah, totally his fault if he didn't have a good game. Which wasn't nine times in ten, or two in fucking eight, as has so generously been offered as an olive branch to as rabid Ben Arfa fans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footsoldier Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Not a problem to disagree. Its all about opinions. Or we'd all be sheep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinport53 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Not a problem to disagree. Its all about opinions. Or we'd all be sheep. Facts aren't subjective you lunatic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Speaking of opinions...I'm of the opinion both this and the Pardew thread should be locked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Ah. The 'bullshit facts are actually now just an opinion' trick. So all okay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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