Hatem Ben Arfa (still a free agent)

[Guest]

2+2 is always 4 mate.

[Geordie Ahmed]

Is enjoyment a return? Are dreams? What price joy, Footsoldier, what price freedom?

 

I want players who are good consistently, not brilliant one game in 10 if you are lucky.

 

I would've loved him to be a top player but he wasn't. No work ethic unfortunately.

Forgetting other clubs BUT for us he was brilliant far more than just 1 in 10. He had a good goals+assists ratio too so there was an end product, wasn't just lush viewing

[Interpolic]

Yeah, one game in ten is bollocks. When given a run in the side he was consistently one of our best players.

[Ikon]

Yeah, one game in ten is bollocks. When given a run in the side he was consistently one of our best players.

 

[joeyt]

Yeah, one game in ten is bollocks. When given a run in the side he was consistently one of our best players.

Definitely.

[Hanshithispantz]

It's complete revisionism and considering it was only a few years ago it's pretty impressive that your view could be that warped. He was consistently streets ahead of anyone else on the pitch.

 

He would literally have a 'bad' 45 minutes and be dropped.

[Hanshithispantz]

It was always a bit telling that the people who hated Ben Afra were the same people who saw Pardew through to the very end too like (Ian excluded).

[Cronky]

It was always a bit telling that the people who hated Ben Afra were the same people who saw Pardew through to the very end too like (Ian excluded).

 

How many people actually 'hated' him though? Most of his critics, self included, would have loved to have seen him fulfil his talent, and felt very exasperated when it didn't happen.

 

The difference is whether you see the problem as being with Ben Arfa, or with the various managers that he's fallen out with.

 

[joeyt]

It was always a bit telling that the people who hated Ben Afra were the same people who saw Pardew through to the very end too like (Ian excluded).

 

How many people actually 'hated' him though? Most of his critics, self included, would have loved to have seen him fulfil his talent, and felt very exasperated when it didn't happen.

 

The difference is whether you see the problem as being with Ben Arfa, or with the various managers that he's fallen out with.

 

 

Do you think Ben Arfa was more to 'blame' for how his Newcastle career went or Pardew?

[Guest]

Same people who didn't like Ben Arfa are mainly the same people who didn't like Robert because he was lazy I've found.

[madras]

Same people who didn't like Ben Arfa are mainly the same people who didn't like Robert because he was lazy I've found.

Not really. Many don't mind a player not tracking back etc if he's good enough when we have the ball, Robert and Ginola fit this. It's always pissed me off when anyone questioned Ben Arfa's work it's his defensive work that's always brought up, his work rate when WE had the ball was the problem as he just didn't give a shit unless the ball was in his immediate vacinity and too often he'd take on and beat 3 players only to run the ball out or leave too tight an angle to get an effective ball in to get away with it.

 

As a fan I loved watching his skill but I can see why not many managers wanted him and why his career has went as it has.

[Hanshithispantz]

It was always a bit telling that the people who hated Ben Afra were the same people who saw Pardew through to the very end too like (Ian excluded).

 

How many people actually 'hated' him though? Most of his critics, self included, would have loved to have seen him fulfil his talent, and felt very exasperated when it didn't happen.

 

The difference is whether you see the problem as being with Ben Arfa, or with the various managers that he's fallen out with.

 

The problem is obviously with Ben Arfa, which still doesn't excuse Pardew of the ridiculous way he utilised him on a match day. He was easily our best player and when he played regularly he won us games. He was dropped for Ryan Taylor, Shola Ameobi, and Cisse on the wing.

[Hanshithispantz]

Same people who didn't like Ben Arfa are mainly the same people who didn't like Robert because he was lazy I've found.

Not really. Many don't mind a player not tracking back etc if he's good enough when we have the ball, Robert and Ginola fit this. It's always pissed me off when anyone questioned Ben Arfa's work it's his defensive work that's always brought up, his work rate when WE had the ball was the problem as he just didn't give a shit unless the ball was in his immediate vacinity and too often he'd take on and beat 3 players only to run the ball out or leave too tight an angle to get an effective ball in to get away with it.

 

As a fan I loved watching his skill but I can see why not many managers wanted him and why his career has went as it has.

But this was highly effective.

[madras]

Same people who didn't like Ben Arfa are mainly the same people who didn't like Robert because he was lazy I've found.

Not really. Many don't mind a player not tracking back etc if he's good enough when we have the ball, Robert and Ginola fit this. It's always pissed me off when anyone questioned Ben Arfa's work it's his defensive work that's always brought up, his work rate when WE had the ball was the problem as he just didn't give a shit unless the ball was in his immediate vacinity and too often he'd take on and beat 3 players only to run the ball out or leave too tight an angle to get an effective ball in to get away with it.

 

As a fan I loved watching his skill but I can see why not many managers wanted him and why his career has went as it has.

But this was highly effective.

I disagree and would say if it was as effective as you think his career wouldn't have panned out as it has.

[Guest firetotheworks]

The 1 on 10 thing is just a lie that people who didn't like him repeated until they believed it. HBA either scored or assisted in 1 in 3.5 games for us, which 1. was by far the highest rate we had from anyone in our squad when he left, including the likes of Sissoko and Gouffran who played consistently, 2. Was miles ahead of the likes of Ryan Taylor, Obertan, SAmeobi, etc who played ahead of him, and 3. was around equal with Juan Mata at the time, who went on to be sold to Man United for daft money despite being viewed as a defensive liability.

 

I can dig up the stats for anyone who still insists it was 1 in 10, like.

 

[Guest firetotheworks]

Same people who didn't like Ben Arfa are mainly the same people who didn't like Robert because he was lazy I've found.

Not really. Many don't mind a player not tracking back etc if he's good enough when we have the ball, Robert and Ginola fit this. It's always pissed me off when anyone questioned Ben Arfa's work it's his defensive work that's always brought up, his work rate when WE had the ball was the problem as he just didn't give a shit unless the ball was in his immediate vacinity and too often he'd take on and beat 3 players only to run the ball out or leave too tight an angle to get an effective ball in to get away with it.

 

As a fan I loved watching his skill but I can see why not many managers wanted him and why his career has went as it has.

But this was highly effective.

I disagree and would say if it was as effective as you think his career wouldn't have panned out as it has.

You can disagree, but it's still wrong purely because he WAS highly effective. He was by far the most effective player in our squad and the goals, assists, and match winning goals back that up.

[madras]

Same people who didn't like Ben Arfa are mainly the same people who didn't like Robert because he was lazy I've found.

Not really. Many don't mind a player not tracking back etc if he's good enough when we have the ball, Robert and Ginola fit this. It's always pissed me off when anyone questioned Ben Arfa's work it's his defensive work that's always brought up, his work rate when WE had the ball was the problem as he just didn't give a shit unless the ball was in his immediate vacinity and too often he'd take on and beat 3 players only to run the ball out or leave too tight an angle to get an effective ball in to get away with it.

 

As a fan I loved watching his skill but I can see why not many managers wanted him and why his career has went as it has.

But this was highly effective.

I disagree and would say if it was as effective as you think his career wouldn't have panned out as it has.

You can disagree, but it's still wrong purely because he WAS highly effective. He was by far the most effective player in our squad and the goals, assists, and match winning goals back that up.

That good and never got  a sniff at the bigger clubs. Wonder why that was ? Blame Pardew all you want and he does shoulder a fair bit, but Ben Arfa wasn't blameless and his career bares that out.

[huss9]

pardew's scapegoat.

 

hba had a decent run of performances on the right - got switched to the left and had a bad 45 minutes.... and that was it.

 

this was also at a time where he was nowhere near the worst and the least hard-working player on the pitch. this bloke was expected to win games on his own.

[Guest firetotheworks]

 

 

Same people who didn't like Ben Arfa are mainly the same people who didn't like Robert because he was lazy I've found.

Not really. Many don't mind a player not tracking back etc if he's good enough when we have the ball, Robert and Ginola fit this. It's always pissed me off when anyone questioned Ben Arfa's work it's his defensive work that's always brought up, his work rate when WE had the ball was the problem as he just didn't give a shit unless the ball was in his immediate vacinity and too often he'd take on and beat 3 players only to run the ball out or leave too tight an angle to get an effective ball in to get away with it.

 

As a fan I loved watching his skill but I can see why not many managers wanted him and why his career has went as it has.

But this was highly effective.

I disagree and would say if it was as effective as you think his career wouldn't have panned out as it has.

You can disagree, but it's still wrong purely because he WAS highly effective. He was by far the most effective player in our squad and the goals, assists, and match winning goals back that up.

That good and never got  a sniff at the bigger clubs. Wonder why that was ? Blame Pardew all you want and he does shoulder a fair bit, but Ben Arfa wasn't blameless and his career bares that out.

 

That's a completely different point to the one you originally made. And also based on a strawman argument I never made.

[Guest firetotheworks]

It's always the same

 

Ben Arfa wasn't that effective/was a 1 in 10 player.

You're wrong, here's why.

Oh aye, couldn't get a game at (Title winning, Champions League challenging, world's richest club) PSG though could he!? Can't be as good as you say! (i.e. Better than everyone else in our squad) Can't blame Pardew for everything! ( i.e. Playing Ryan Taylor, SAmeobi, Obertan etc ahead of the best player in our squad)

 

Completely ignoring the much more comparable Nice, where he ripped it up.

 

The arguments are just daft. Everyone knows he's a knacker. Him being a knacker at PSG is completely different to him being a knacker at Nice or Newcastle. Therefore yes, Pardew is to blame for choosing far, far worse players ahead of him and effectively hamstringing the team regardless of ability and output.

 

I've said it a million times, but it sums it up that Ben Arfa was MOTM against Stoke - hit the woodwork twice, won a penalty, assisted in a 5-1 demolition and Pardew dropped him for the next match. I'm sure Ben Arfa's partly responsible though. :eyeroll:

 

[xLiaaamx]

I thought he still deserved to play and didn't do much wrong on the pitch, but he didn't appear to look after himself too well off it.

[Alberts Mustache]

This thread is on par with the most annoying sh*t out there. It's like racists debating flat earth-nuts. No room for a middle way on either side.

[Darth Crooks]

We'll never truly know. Same with what what could have been with Andy Carroll. I'll not judge anyone harshly other than the obvious during the last decades shitshow. Cabaye went on strike ffs.

[Guest firetotheworks]

This thread is on par with the most annoying sh*t out there. It's like racists debating flat earth-nuts. No room for a middle way on either side.

I don't see how tbh. Those defending his time here agree that he should have achieved more in his career and that he's obviously a difficult character. The point is that being a difficult character at PSG isn't the same as being one at Newcastle or Nice. Him not getting into the richest club in the world's starting XI doesn't vindicate him often not getting in run-on-a-shoestring Newcastle's.

[Cronky]

It was always a bit telling that the people who hated Ben Afra were the same people who saw Pardew through to the very end too like (Ian excluded).

 

How many people actually 'hated' him though? Most of his critics, self included, would have loved to have seen him fulfil his talent, and felt very exasperated when it didn't happen.

 

The difference is whether you see the problem as being with Ben Arfa, or with the various managers that he's fallen out with.

 

 

Do you think Ben Arfa was more to 'blame' for how his Newcastle career went or Pardew?

 

Ben Arfa has to take responsibility. His talent is obvious and I think Pardew, like a string of other managers, would have loved to have made use of it.

 

Pardew seems to have taken a lot of the blame for demoralising Ben Arfa by dropping him. Whether or not the dropping was justified, surely the reaction of a winner in that situation is to prove the manager wrong? The problem with Ben Arfa is that the minute anything goes against him, he falls into victim mode.