England

[TRon]

18 minutes ago, huss9 said:

its all about opinions.

for me its was SBR.

edged out of two world cups by the eventual chamipons. thought we were unlucky. if lineker had equalised i reckon we would have beaten Argentina, and just milliemetres from gazza getting the win in the semi againts germany.

after the first couple of games in each tournament he tweaked the personell and system and we played much better  - i know wilkins red, and robsons shoulder played a part in 86 but that wasnt the whole story.  some player pressure in 90 about changing formation but robson was open to it and not stubborn.

 

 

again, just imho.

 

I always thought the best football I've ever seen England play was under SBR. Maybe it was just the players, two of our own, Gazza and Waddle gave us some real flair, and they weren't stifled by Bobby either.

[madras]

Just now, TRon said:

 

I always thought the best football I've ever seen England play was under SBR. Maybe it was just the players, two of our own, Gazza and Waddle gave us some real flair, and they weren't stifled by Bobby either.

Probably, there were flashes under El Tel as well.

[TRon]

2 minutes ago, madras said:

Probably, there were flashes under El Tel as well.

 

Yep. Those are the two best England managers I've seen in my time.

[Cf]

6 minutes ago, Wullie said:

 

What in particular was garbage about the 2022 World Cup? 

 

We scored 12 goals in the first 4 games and then ultimately a missed penalty cost us a quarter final in which we were the better side.

 

Garbage is probably a bit too strong in that instance I guess. But was another where I think we achieved at the lower ends of what we'd have expected to. Games until France were Iran, USA, Wales, Senegal. On paper all games England should (and to our credit mostly did) win comfortably. 

[enthusiast]

And the teams we didn't play? Zero wins. Disgrace.

[Shearergol]

15 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Yep. Those are the two best England managers I've seen in my time.

 

I thought Hoddle had us playing some great stuff.

[Kid Icarus]

Give it 5 years and it'll have always been everyone's opinion that Southgate was the best England manager in most of our lifetimes.

[Mike]

Listen, you've been headed this way for a whle, so I think it's best to do it and get it over with:

 

[toontownman]

Exciting times. Couple of months too late but a big opportunity for this talent pool to get someone in that can utilize them.

 

Throw everything at Klopp imo. Even if that means an interim for a couple of months until he has had a long enough break from the game to come back. 

 

I think he would take it tbh. He has done everything at club level.

[Holmesy]

What no one seems to be talking about at the moment is that Southgate has managed in an era where most of the big international football teams are worse than they have been for decades, arguably except us:

France - worst French side player-for-player for probably 25 years 

Germany - probably the worst they have been for 20 years

Italy - bang average

Netherlands - bang average

Belgium - golden generation aging - missed their opportunity

Portugal - decent side to be fair but pandering to Ronaldo. Still nowhere near the Figo era 

Spain - despite winning it, probably the worst Spain side for 20 years

Croatia - worst team for 20 years

Etc.

 

Look at the players each of these teams had at their disposal when Sir Bobby, Capello, Venables, Ericsson etc managed. Different kettle of fish.

 

Obviously you can only beat what's in front of you, and it would be overly harsh to suggest Southgate is totally shite, but the media hardly tell the full story.

Southgate's overall win ratio is 59%. His win ratio against top 10 FIFA ranked teams is 30%, in an era where they are all the weakest they have been for a long time.

 

[Eveready]

Don't understand why Emery isn't top of the list for all international teams.  You'd think a tournament specialist is exactly what they'd be after.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

18 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Exciting times. Couple of months too late but a big opportunity for this talent pool to get someone in that can utilize them.

 

Throw everything at Klopp imo. Even if that means an interim for a couple of months until he has had a long enough break from the game to come back. 

 

I think he would take it tbh. He has done everything at club level.

You think he should’ve quit just before the euros? 

[Aiston]

 

 

Arguably the best bunch of attacking players in the tournament as well. Southgate was shit.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Don’t think even he would claim his plan was to maximise the attacking numbers. His plan was to grind and hope someone would win us the trophy. 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 13:50 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Jonas]

I just feel things are skwered with Venables. By two games at Euro 96 and whatever ratio he has bare in mind he had unprecedentedly almost exclusively (95%+) home matches and played one good team in all those friendlies (Brazil - well beaten by).

Any other manager would have been scolded for unimpressive one goal wins over Nigerira, Japan, Hong Kong, Bulgaria and 0-0 draws with Uruguay, Croatia, Colombia and three times Norway.

They played well against and thrashed Greece before USA 94 (where they were probably the weakest team) and beat Switzerland (not replicated when it mattered) quite comfortably but that's it.

SBR and Hoddle's football was better to watch, had more competitive games and tougher opponents.

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 13:56 by Jonas

[Theregulars]

I think it’s really important to remember despite all the flowery eulogies - we didn’t deserve to win. We had as much fortune as you can realistically get in 2 Euros as well and still never looked convinced / convincing.

[Jaqen]

Kane, Bellingham and Foden as a trio just didn't work and it was painful we persisted with it the whole tournament.

 

Even if Kane wasn't looking like a 40 year old league 2 player you need pacy runners around him not two players who are trying to play in the exact spaces as him. 

 

[Skeletor]

Speaks volumes that if he hadn't resigned he'd still be here. FA have no balls to sack an anti-football failure.

[timeEd32]

36 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

What no one seems to be talking about at the moment is that Southgate has managed in an era where most of the big international football teams are worse than they have been for decades, arguably except us:

France - worst French side player-for-player for probably 25 years 

Germany - probably the worst they have been for 20 years

Italy - bang average

Netherlands - bang average

Belgium - golden generation aging - missed their opportunity

Portugal - decent side to be fair but pandering to Ronaldo. Still nowhere near the Figo era 

Spain - despite winning it, probably the worst Spain side for 20 years

Croatia - worst team for 20 years

Etc.

 

Look at the players each of these teams had at their disposal when Sir Bobby, Capello, Venables, Ericsson etc managed. Different kettle of fish.

 

Obviously you can only beat what's in front of you, and it would be overly harsh to suggest Southgate is totally shite, but the media hardly tell the full story.

Southgate's overall win ratio is 59%. His win ratio against top 10 FIFA ranked teams is 30%, in an era where they are all the weakest they have been for a long time.

 

 

Not sure that's fair / true about France, but point taken on the rest.

[Optimistic Nut]

2 hours ago, TRon said:

 

Well it's not really far off the truth tbh.

 

There's been England managers down the years who've played "better" football, had easy draws and had quality players and not scratched what Southgate has achieved like. 

[Holmesy]

24 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

Not sure that's fair / true about France, but point taken on the rest.

Zidane, Henry, Trezeguet, Pires, Galas, Evra, Vieira, Makelele, Ribery, Abidal, Thuram, Djorkaeff, Karembeau, Petit, Benzema, Giroud, and you could name another 20-30.

None of the current France team would get in any France side from probably 96 onwards, with the possible exception of Kante, and i especially include specialist sprinter, Mbappe in that.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 14:27 by Holmesy

[TRon]

33 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

There's been England managers down the years who've played "better" football, had easy draws and had quality players and not scratched what Southgate has achieved like. 

 

Well they were called shit as well ultimately.

 

I understand Southgate's tactics to a point, basically keep it tight and then rely on a bit of magic to win the game, it's tried and tested in cup competitions. I just think he showed no imagination and never looked capable of changing it up.

[TRon]

1 hour ago, Shearergol said:

 

I thought Hoddle had us playing some great stuff.

 

I purposely left him out because I have a pathological dislike for the smarmy twat. But beyond the preening self importance, he was quite tactically savvy.

[Jaqen]

34 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Zidane, Henry, Trezeguet, Pires, Galas, Evra, Vieira, Makelele, Ribery, Abidal, Thuram, Djorkaeff, Karembeau, Petit, Benzema, Giroud, and you could name another 20-30.

None of the current France team would get in any France side from probably 96 onwards, with the possible exception of Kante, and i especially include specialist sprinter, Mbappe in that.

 

 

 

 

Mbappe has 12 world cup goals already including a hat trick in a final so specialist sprinter isn't really fair mind 

[gbandit]

Mbappe is the best player in the world now, let’s give him some respect