England

[Holmesy]

1 hour ago, David Edgar said:

Mental squad. So many daft picks.

It looks a bit of a mess. But, maybe he's using the first squad against a weaker opponent to test a few new options out - can't really criticise him for that. Obviously you can criticise him for Hendo because that's a mingin' decision on all levels but other than that, happy to wait and see.

[KaKa]

2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Jones has played 800 more minutes than Angel Gomes, for a better side in a tougher division.

 

I like Angel Gomes. But he's been benched for a 17-year-old. No issue with him being behind Curtis Jones atm. 

 

I kinda like how Tuchel hasn't chosen kids to fill out the squad. Let the young boys play in the U21 and win. Let good seasoned pros like Dan Burn cheerlead from the sidelines.

 

There's usually about 3-4 players in a squad that have little chance of getting meaningful minutes. Let them be old boys.

 

Angel Gones has likely been benched because he hasn't signed a new contract and is leaving on a free in the summer.

 

Playing 800 more minutes does not make Jones a better or more useful player. You're fawning over him because he's at Liverpool. Once again you're on the hype train.

 

As the Jones fan that you are, you tell me what his stand out qualities are then?

 

Gallagher gives far more work rate, intensity, pressing and ball winning.

 

Gomes gives better composure on the ball, awareness, vision and passing both from deeper and forward areas.

 

Gibbs-White carries the ball better, passes better and hits the ball better from distance.

 

Wharton is far better setting the tempo and progressing the ball from back to front.

 

What is it Curtis Jones does at a high level exactly? That puts him ahead of those?

[Dr.Spaceman]

I'm with you, sort of, but Jones has played 1170 minutes across 24 appearances for the team who are absolutely walking the league. He clearly does something right.

[KaKa]

5 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

I'm with you, sort of, but Jones has played 1170 minutes across 24 appearances for the team who are absolutely walking the league. He clearly does something right.

 

Liverpool's midfield 3 is Gravenberch, MaCallister and Szoboszlai.

 

Jones basically rotates in for any of those three, and so has played a good amount of minutes.

 

As far as I can see he's a fill in player.

 

I really don't see what he adds as a stand out ability.

 

Imagine us looking for a midfielder this summer, out of those 5, and the choice being Curtis Jones.

 

I'd be at a loss for words.

[Dr.Spaceman]

1 minute ago, KaKa said:

 

Liverpool's midfield 3 is Gravenberch, MaCallister and Szoboszlai.

 

Jones basically rotates in for any of those three, and so has played a good amount of minutes.

 

As far as I can see he's a fill in player.

 

I really don't see what he adds as a stand out ability.

 

Imagine us looking for a midfielder this summer, out of those 5, and the choice being Curtis Jones.

 

I'd be at a loss for words.

 

Yep, I know what you mean, there is no way Liverpool sign a Curtis Jones type player from another club. Same way we don't ever sign Sean Longstaff, Shola Ameobi, Paul Dummett etc

 

He's the definition of 'neat and tidy', which every side needs imo. His passing stats are really good, he's a possession recycler and occasional goal contributor. Not sure what's not to like when those types are home grown.

[KaKa]

Just now, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

Yep, I know what you mean, there is no way Liverpool sign a Curtis Jones type player from another club. Same way we don't ever sign Sean Longstaff, Shola Ameobi, Paul Dummett etc

 

He's the definition of 'neat and tidy', which every side needs imo. His passing stats are really good, he's a possession recycler and occasional goal contributor. Not sure what's not to like when those types are home grown.

 

Yeah, I agree, that's all fine.

 

He's a decent squad player for his club.

 

For England though, with some of the other options available ... nah.

 

[The College Dropout]

32 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Angel Gones has likely been benched because he hasn't signed a new contract and is leaving on a free in the summer.

 

Playing 800 more minutes does not make Jones a better or more useful player. You're fawning over him because he's at Liverpool. Once again you're on the hype train.

 

As the Jones fan that you are, you tell me what his stand out qualities are then?

 

Gallagher gives far more work rate, intensity, pressing and ball winning.

 

Gomes gives better composure on the ball, awareness, vision and passing both from deeper and forward areas.

 

Gibbs-White carries the ball better, passes better and hits the ball better from distance.

 

Wharton is far better setting the tempo and progressing the ball from back to front.

 

What is it Curtis Jones does at a high level exactly? That puts him ahead of those?

Declan Rice and Jude Bellingham aside - none of the England options at CM are elite.  I’m excluding MGW I rarely see him  play CM.  

 

The rest are much of a muchness - including Jones. Good players, not elite (yet).  I don’t get why Jones being in there is such a crime, they are all on the same level atm.  
 

Jones is athletic and string. Gets around the pitch and closes down well and gets stuck in. He has quick feet, press resistant and carries the ball very well. Can get in the box and score a goal.  Seems trusted to carry out tactical instructions. Rarely loses the ball. His only weakness imo is that he’s not a progressive passer. Just a good all-round footballer.  
 

It’s all much of a muchness.  At international level being press resistant and keeping the ball is of more value than what Gallagher brings. Need to see more of Wharton to judge. Gomes - maybe - rated him from early - just don’t think he’s proven to be better than Jones.  

[The College Dropout]

Jones is the profile id like to bring in and compete with Joelinton.  Can do a bit of everything.  
 

 

With good scouting you can pick up that kind of player for <30m. 
 

All those options Gomes, Wharton etc.  - great pickups at the right time for the right price.  Not worth megabucks. 
 

I like Gomes on a free. But you can’t have 3 Howe CMs being Bruno, Miley and Gomes. Think you need more athletic Choices.  

[KaKa]

19 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Declan Rice and Jude Bellingham aside - none of the England options at CM are elite.  I’m excluding MGW I rarely see him  play CM.  

 

The rest are much of a muchness - including Jones. Good players, not elite (yet).  I don’t get why Jones being in there is such a crime, they are all on the same level atm.  
 

Jones is athletic and string. Gets around the pitch and closes down well and gets stuck in. He has quick feet, press resistant and carries the ball very well. Can get in the box and score a goal.  Seems trusted to carry out tactical instructions. Rarely loses the ball. His only weakness imo is that he’s not a progressive passer. Just a good all-round footballer.  
 

It’s all much of a muchness.  At international level being press resistant and keeping the ball is of more value than what Gallagher brings. Need to see more of Wharton to judge. Gomes - maybe - rated him from early - just don’t think he’s proven to be better than Jones.  

 

I think Jones is very ordinary. I don't see it.

 

I've just quickly gone on one of the Liverpool forums to see what they're saying with the news today, and there's barely any reaction. The quote below from on there, is exactly what I see from him.

 

"Curtis is just not good enough.....consistently. The ratio being something like one decent game in about five/six. He's one of those players that just wallows around, a pass here and there, but seldom affecting the game. He lacks identity on the pitch...a personality...he's sort of nothing."

 

https://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,50471.1058.html

[The College Dropout]

And Angel Gomes and Connor Gallagher are levels above?

 

Loads on here would’ve had a meltdown if we signed Gallagher for £34m. Or whatever Napoli paid for McTominay. 

[Shush]

1 hour ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

I'm with you, sort of, but Jones has played 1170 minutes across 24 appearances for the team who are absolutely walking the league. He clearly does something right.

 

Yeah I think talking Jones down is harsh this season. Liverpool are weird in midfield, they are more about ticking the game over than controlling it. Having outstanding forward 3, back 4 and keeper means the contributions from the middle don't need to be so dependable, but it's not like he isn't doing something well.

[Shush]

4 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

And Angel Gomes and Connor Gallagher are levels above?

 

Loads on here would’ve had a meltdown if we signed Gallagher for £34m. Or whatever Napoli paid for McTominay. 

 

I think both have proved to be valuable. I'd probably prefer McTominay over Gallagher, as everyone time I see Gallagher I see a yellow card waiting to happen most of all.

 

Angel Gomes I don't really know what's to say - other than he looks tiny  - I should watch his highlights more. To be that small and getting a call up must mean he has something decent about him. Think he's been tidy when I've seen him play.

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, Shush said:

 

Yeah I think talking Jones down is harsh this season. Liverpool are weird in midfield, they are more about ticking the game over than controlling it. Having outstanding forward 3, back 4 and keeper means the contributions from the middle don't need to be so dependable, but it's not like he isn't doing something well.

Agree. None of the Liverpool CMs are elite but neither were the CMs the last time they won the league and CL (Fabinho aside maybe).  
 

But good all rounders. The PSG midfielders showed another level of baller. 

[The College Dropout]

7 minutes ago, Shush said:

 

I think both have proved to be valuable. I'd probably prefer McTominay over Gallagher, as everyone time I see Gallagher I see a yellow card waiting to happen most of all.

 

Angel Gomes I don't really know what's to say - other than he looks tiny  - I should watch his highlights more. To be that small and getting a call up must mean he has something decent about him. Think he's been tidy when I've seen him play.

Yeh they are all good players.  None are elite. I would have them all competing with Joelinton. I’m not convinced any are CLEAR of Joelinton though. 
 

 

Don’t think any of them are Bruno or Tonali level.  Perhaps they could talk to a prime Cabaye. 

 

 

Edited Friday at 17:12 by The College Dropout

[Shush]

10 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Yeh they are all good players.  None are elite. I would have them all competing with Joelinton. I’m not convinced any are CLEAR of Joelinton though. 
 

 

Don’t think any of them are Bruno or Tonali level.  Perhaps they could talk to a prime Cabaye. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah I'd agree with that. Better than Longstaff though which is becoming essential to have, sadly.

[The College Dropout]

8 minutes ago, Shush said:

 

Yeah I'd agree with that. Better than Longstaff though which is becoming essential to have, sadly.

To have a top team, you need your immediate backup CM close to the level of the starters. When Szob or MacAllister have been injured I didn’t notice a crazy dip.  When 1 of our 3 are not playing the gap to Willock or Longstaff is too severe. We need another player better or levels with Joelinton.  Miley isn’t ready to be the immediate backup imo.  
 

Similar at CB and the forward line.  Dan Burn has been that. Botman is our best CB this season but the drop to Burn hasn’t been crazy. Schar’s drop in level is a much bigger problem. If playing 2 CBs Burn probably deserves to start over Schar.  
 

So many CL games.  You need to be able to lose 2 starters and not miss a step.  

 

 

Edited Friday at 17:32 by The College Dropout

[gjohnson]

Has Dan Burn seriously been called up to England? Maybe Tuchel has some vision beyond London and North West...now that does impress me

[WilliamPS]

Devils advocate on Henderson is the squad looked miserable at the euros so maybe he’s basically there as a senior pro. Theres always a few players in the squad who never play or only get 5 mins at the end.
 

Big question for me is what is he going to do with Foden, Bellingham, Kane and Palmer. I think you struggle to fit any two of them together, never mind 4. And if he’s going for Kane then he needs to put pace in behind - Gordon one side and someone else RW, and that only leaves midfield slots for the others. Is he going to make the big calls that Southgate ducked 

 

 

 

 

[Sibierski]

Jones is a very good player. We down play the English talent pool so much, it’s actually daft the depth in level of quality that Jones is sneered at, but people will go wild over players like Zubimendi.

 

Szob starts both games against PSG, nothing. Jones starts in Real Madrid / Leverkusen, some of their better performances.

 

I’d be delighted if we had Jones in our midfield collection. 

[TheBrownBottle]

45 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

Has Dan Burn seriously been called up to England? Maybe Tuchel has some vision beyond London and North West...now that does impress me

Southgate picked Pope, Wilson, Gordon, Trippier.  Carsley capped Hall and Livramento.

 

The bias was always more around top teams (which we are now) having their players picked even if they were completely out of form rather than geographical. 

[El Prontonise]

Tuchel will be a horses for courses manager imo, so he'll pick players if they will do a job for him in certain games.

[Mazzy]

16 hours ago, Shearergol said:

 

In the U21's. So is Wharton.

 

An absolutely insane squad that U21s right now btw.

[gjohnson]

16 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Southgate picked Pope, Wilson, Gordon, Trippier.  Carsley capped Hall and Livramento.

 

The bias was always more around top teams (which we are now) having their players picked even if they were completely out of form rather than geographical. 

Southgate was no different to his predecessors...he picked name players from teams doing well or with reputation....

 

Tuchels call up of Burn suggests one of three things to me...1  He sees something in Burn which goes with how he wants to play.

 

2 he wants a big bugger as backup if under the cosh

 

3 he hasn't watched Burn at all and has gone off a stats database

 

I'm no Burn fan but he's one of us so will back him regardless but he's probably the last from our squad I'd have ever called up....

 

So genius or idiocracy? If he plays we might find out

[Tiresias]

From the conference he seems to be highly rating character, talked a lot about having to have a bond between players. Makes the Burn call up high, probably internally makes sense with Henderson, but wonder if that could backfire considering how he went from respected to national joke in no time at all. The real issue is that for some reason Lewis Cook is completely ignored despite being brilliant for Bournemouth in one of Englands problem positions. Were I him i'd be livid. 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 13:14 by Tiresias

[andycap]

We have always through the years been lacking in certain positions in the squad. 

But centre mid and defence are the deficiencies nowadays we've always had tonnes of good centre mids over the years that would walk into this team now.