Twinport53 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 He literally isn't already going to ground already He's off balance as he's just been shouldered/pushed fairly by Tarkowski, but he doesn't do any sort of diving motion until he gets stood on He takes a touch with his left foot before punting it out of play with his right and then gets stepped on. Do we lose context of the situation and give a foul despite the fact he was never catching that ball then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 The ref still gets to make most of the calls and if he gets a major decision right the game should in theory just continue. It should be seen as a plus for VAR that it was able to give a penalty which was a penalty even if the players hadn't spotted it, not seen as a negative Yeah, but that means VAR will be giving 6 pens a game for shirt grabbing in the box then? Fair point really, probably not, but it just seems to be a football wide acceptance that shirt pulling is allowed, video reffing or not Is part of football not based on luck and subjectivity? Different people have different opinions on what is a bad tackle or foul. The fact people can argue both for and against Italy getting a pen shows it simply isn't as easy as "VAR says it's a pen". Would Italy have felt hard done by for not getting a pen? Probably not. I don't understand those opinions though. Its clearly a penalty going by the rules of the game. VAR has generally been shambolic when trialled in the FA cup so far but I don't understand the outrage when it actually does its job the way it should Well, it’s not. Even more laughable that a few posts up you explain how shirt pulling is seen as acceptable in football - what?! By your rules of “contact causing someone to fall over is a foul” we should have about 30 penalties a game. If a ref sees the foul for a penalty, he gives a penalty. If a ref sees shirt pulling, he probably doesn't give a penalty. I don't agree with it, but that's just the way it is. I never said the bit in bold. I said if your legs or foot connect with another players legs or foot while not touching the ball and that contact is enough to impede the player or stop him from continuing his run, then its a foul, and it clearly is But the contact in the Italy game didn’t impede the player in any way? What did it impede him from doing? He’d lost the ball and was already going to ground. He wasn’t running, he was falling. “basically anything that involves your legs impeding the other player's legs without getting the ball is a foul and rightly so” How many ‘tangles of legs’ do we see in football where both players just clip each other unintentionally? Who gets a foul then? How many times does a goalkeeper catch a player after a shot has been taken? Nothing is given, why? Because contact is inevitable and it’s ridiculous to penalise ever single touch. He had just been pushed/shouldered fairly by Tarkowski so was off balance, there's no way of knowing if he would have fell, then Tarkowski steps on his foot stopping him from running forward, which is a foul. It doesn't matter if you unintentionally bring down the player by a tangle of legs, its a foul. The one with the ball who is impeded gets the free kick. If a player is running up the wing, and a guy behind clips him accidentally, causing him to fall over, its a foul. This doesn't seem to be getting through to you as you keep making this point with the goalkeepers, so I'll say it again. Contact between upper body's of players is inevitable and fine as long as it isn't a clear push in the back or something. I'm talking about the contact between legs I was talking about legs too - a player tries to chip the keeper, misses, the momentum of the player and keeper running towards each other causes the player to go over. It happens in virtually every one on one situation. It’s not a foul because the ball (and any chance) has gone long before any accidental contact is made - exactly likethe Italy situation. You said “the one with the ball gets the freekick” well, the Italy player had lost the ball. It was an accidental coming together and absolutely nothing more than that. Nah, its not a foul because the goalkeeper can't get out of the way in that scenario, and that's not a tangle between legs anyway, its the attacking player falling over the body of the keeper generally. I wasn't talking about the Chiesa challenge when I said "the one with the ball gets the free kick", I was just responding to your scenario. The Chiesa challenge is the exact same as a late challenge on a player. Lets say a midfielder hits a bad pass in the direction of an opposition player but while that's just happened someone comes in with a late tackle intended to block the ball. The player is no longer in control of the ball but its still his free kick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 He literally isn't already going to ground already He's off balance as he's just been shouldered/pushed fairly by Tarkowski, but he doesn't do any sort of diving motion until he gets stood on He takes a touch with his left foot before punting it out of play with his right and then gets stepped on. Do we lose context of the situation and give a foul despite the fact he was never catching that ball then? I'll refer you to the final paragraph of my last post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figures 1-0 Football Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 He literally isn't already going to ground already He's off balance as he's just been shouldered/pushed fairly by Tarkowski, but he doesn't do any sort of diving motion until he gets stood on He takes a touch with his left foot before punting it out of play with his right and then gets stepped on. Do we lose context of the situation and give a foul despite the fact he was never catching that ball then? I'll refer you to the final paragraph of my last post There’s a clear difference which is what you don’t seem to grasp. Your scenario is a late challenge, the actual incident was an accidental collision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinport53 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 He literally isn't already going to ground already He's off balance as he's just been shouldered/pushed fairly by Tarkowski, but he doesn't do any sort of diving motion until he gets stood on He takes a touch with his left foot before punting it out of play with his right and then gets stepped on. Do we lose context of the situation and give a foul despite the fact he was never catching that ball then? I'll refer you to the final paragraph of my last post Appreciated. I get what you are saying but similar to your "acceptable shirt pulling", fouls in the box are also different to those outside. As he was never reaching that ball whether he was stepped on or not, So your point about late fouls doesn't work. Likewise Triggs, you do realise this entire conversation proves VAR is wrong The fact it was so clear and obvious people are debating it surely makes the decision null and void? It never needed to go to VAR in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 He literally isn't already going to ground already He's off balance as he's just been shouldered/pushed fairly by Tarkowski, but he doesn't do any sort of diving motion until he gets stood on He takes a touch with his left foot before punting it out of play with his right and then gets stepped on. Do we lose context of the situation and give a foul despite the fact he was never catching that ball then? I'll refer you to the final paragraph of my last post There’s a clear difference which is what you don’t seem to grasp. Your scenario is a late challenge, the actual incident was an accidental collision. A late tackle attempting to block the ball I said Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figures 1-0 Football Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 He literally isn't already going to ground already He's off balance as he's just been shouldered/pushed fairly by Tarkowski, but he doesn't do any sort of diving motion until he gets stood on He takes a touch with his left foot before punting it out of play with his right and then gets stepped on. Do we lose context of the situation and give a foul despite the fact he was never catching that ball then? I'll refer you to the final paragraph of my last post There’s a clear difference which is what you don’t seem to grasp. Your scenario is a late challenge, the actual incident was an accidental collision. A late tackle attempting to block the ball I said It’s still an attempted tackle/challenge, which is entirely different to a player accidentally putting his foot on the same blade of grass as another whilst not challenging for the ball which was nowhere near the action at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Italy are shit VAR is shit England are shit International friendlies are shit Sorted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebellious Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Halsey on the radio today said it was never a Pen giving the same reasons as most who are against on here but explained why it was not in a ref type of way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 He literally isn't already going to ground already He's off balance as he's just been shouldered/pushed fairly by Tarkowski, but he doesn't do any sort of diving motion until he gets stood on He takes a touch with his left foot before punting it out of play with his right and then gets stepped on. Do we lose context of the situation and give a foul despite the fact he was never catching that ball then? I'll refer you to the final paragraph of my last post Appreciated. I get what you are saying but similar to your "acceptable shirt pulling", fouls in the box are also different to those outside. As he was never reaching that ball whether he was stepped on or not, So your point about late fouls doesn't work. Likewise Triggs, you do realise this entire conversation proves VAR is wrong The fact it was so clear and obvious people are debating it surely makes the decision null and void? It never needed to go to VAR in the first place. Aye but I'll never accept that that incident isn't a clear penalty I don't even really like VAR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 He literally isn't already going to ground already He's off balance as he's just been shouldered/pushed fairly by Tarkowski, but he doesn't do any sort of diving motion until he gets stood on He takes a touch with his left foot before punting it out of play with his right and then gets stepped on. Do we lose context of the situation and give a foul despite the fact he was never catching that ball then? I'll refer you to the final paragraph of my last post There’s a clear difference which is what you don’t seem to grasp. Your scenario is a late challenge, the actual incident was an accidental collision. A late tackle attempting to block the ball I said It’s still an attempted tackle/challenge, which is entirely different to a player accidentally putting his foot on the same blade of grass as another whilst not challenging for the ball which was nowhere near the action at the time. Doesn't really matter though, penalties are given for clumsy stuff like people accidentally standing on another player's foot all the time. Anyway I won't be back on for a few hours so I'll leave it at that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 The ref still gets to make most of the calls and if he gets a major decision right the game should in theory just continue. It should be seen as a plus for VAR that it was able to give a penalty which was a penalty even if the players hadn't spotted it, not seen as a negative Yeah, but that means VAR will be giving 6 pens a game for shirt grabbing in the box then? Fair point really, probably not, but it just seems to be a football wide acceptance that shirt pulling is allowed, video reffing or not Is part of football not based on luck and subjectivity? Different people have different opinions on what is a bad tackle or foul. The fact people can argue both for and against Italy getting a pen shows it simply isn't as easy as "VAR says it's a pen". Would Italy have felt hard done by for not getting a pen? Probably not. I don't understand those opinions though. Its clearly a penalty going by the rules of the game. VAR has generally been shambolic when trialled in the FA cup so far but I don't understand the outrage when it actually does its job the way it should It shouldn't have been a penalty because the referee and the linesman either didn't see it or didn't think it was a penalty, whether they were right or wrong. Football has always been the rule of the ref, not some cunts sitting in a room watching a load of teles. Whether they get the decisions correct or not I just don't want VAR to have a major part in the game. EDIT: That's without even touching on how much of a cluster fuck the entire thing is too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figures 1-0 Football Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 He literally isn't already going to ground already He's off balance as he's just been shouldered/pushed fairly by Tarkowski, but he doesn't do any sort of diving motion until he gets stood on He takes a touch with his left foot before punting it out of play with his right and then gets stepped on. Do we lose context of the situation and give a foul despite the fact he was never catching that ball then? I'll refer you to the final paragraph of my last post There’s a clear difference which is what you don’t seem to grasp. Your scenario is a late challenge, the actual incident was an accidental collision. A late tackle attempting to block the ball I said It’s still an attempted tackle/challenge, which is entirely different to a player accidentally putting his foot on the same blade of grass as another whilst not challenging for the ball which was nowhere near the action at the time. Doesn't really matter though, penalties are given for clumsy stuff like people accidentally standing on another player's foot all the time. Anyway I won't be back on for a few hours so I'll leave it at that Correct - but those penalties are given because the player who is fouled has the ball at the time and it impedes them from continuing to play with it, or they are making a run whilst the ball is with their team etc. This incident was totally different to that because he or any of Italy’s team didn’t have the ball (or any chance of getting it). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinport53 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Triggs, there was a point when Kenedy got a slight clip in the box today. Going by your view and VAR it was a pen. Yet the ref and commentator said "it wasn't enough". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Triggs, there was a point when Kenedy got a slight clip in the box today. Going by your view and VAR it was a pen. Yet the ref and commentator said "it wasn't enough". Don't remember it so not much I can really say Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinport53 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Triggs, there was a point when Kenedy got a slight clip in the box today. Going by your view and VAR it was a pen. Yet the ref and commentator said "it wasn't enough". Don't remember it so not much I can really say That's my point, but with VAR everybody would remember it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 England will host Switzerland and the United States in two autumn internationals to complement their Nations League fixtures. Gareth Southgate's team will face the Swiss on 11 September at a venue to be decided, with the game against the US taking place on 15 November at Wembley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 I thought the whole bloody point of the Nations League bollocks was to get rid of pointless friendless? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Ffs man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 England will host Switzerland and the United States in two autumn internationals to complement their Nations League fixtures. Gareth Southgate's team will face the Swiss on 11 September at a venue to be decided, with the game against the US taking place on 15 November at Wembley. Wonder if that means it's gonna be somewhere around the UK or at a neutral venue abroad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 England will host Switzerland and the United States in two autumn internationals to complement their Nations League fixtures. Gareth Southgate's team will face the Swiss on 11 September at a venue to be decided, with the game against the US taking place on 15 November at Wembley. Wonder if that means it's gonna be somewhere around the UK or at a neutral venue abroad. World Trade Centre potentially. Top respect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakey jake Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 talking about who should play in defence for England coming up on SSN, bet lascelles won't even get a mention Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 talking about who should play in defence for England coming up on SSN, bet lascelles won't even get a mention Just looked at their squad selector thingymajig, he isn't even an option. Dunk, Mee, Mawson, and Keane are on there though. http://www.skysports.com/football/news/12016/11327183/choose-your-england-world-cup-squad-for-russia-2018 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakey jake Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 talking about who should play in defence for England coming up on SSN, bet lascelles won't even get a mention Just looked at their squad selector thingymajig, he isn't even an option. Dunk, Mee, Mawson, and Keane are on there though. http://www.skysports.com/football/news/12016/11327183/choose-your-england-world-cup-squad-for-russia-2018 Those are your options? Holy fuck England has a worse pool of players to choose from than I thought Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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