loki679 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I don’t think that’s harsh at all. Our play with him in the side was one dimensional with the forwards largely isolated. He picks it up from defense, launches it forward and even if the attacker manages to control the ball the rest of the team are struggling to catch up. With Ki in there the passes were shorter, people were moving and making angles to receive it and we moved up the pitch as a team. If I thought we’d get a replacement I’d bin shelvey with no hesitation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Puppets Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I think people are drastically rewriting history, or at least placing far too much importance on Ki being the turning point. Yes our play could be one dimensional when Shelvey was in the team, but I’m not entirely sure if that’s Shelvey fault. The team was crying out for Shelvey’s vision / passing ability prior to Almiron arriving. Would have perhaps been nice too see him in the team alongside Ki. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I think people are drastically rewriting history, or at least placing far too much importance on Ki being the turning point. we're really not like doesn't necessarily mean that everything is shelvey's fault or whatever just that once ki came in things clicked for the team as a whole largely due to the way he played it out per loki's post...from that point on shelvey was done under rafa imo especially as we had 2 cb's that could play the hollywood balls shelvey was doing anyways we went from have 1 tactic/threat - shelvey direct to the strikers from deep - to still having that option but also being able to play through the middle and move the whole team up, bringing the full backs into play higher up the pitch etc. not sure what you were watching Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinoasprilla Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Shelvey drops back when we have clark, dummett and lascelles at the back players not great on the ball. From memory when shelvey played at the start of last season schar and lejeune weren't in the team plus it was mainly hoselu up front The season before when lejeune came into the team, Shelvey played his best football because he was able to play further forward knowing Lejeune could pass it out from the back Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Spaceman Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I think people are drastically rewriting history, or at least placing far too much importance on Ki being the turning point. Yes our play could be one dimensional when Shelvey was in the team, but I’m not entirely sure if that’s Shelvey fault. The team was crying out for Shelvey’s vision / passing ability prior to Almiron arriving. Would have perhaps been nice too see him in the team alongside Ki. Wrong, Fabian Schar and Florian Lejeune, whilst not as good are good enough alternatives to Shelvey in terms of long range passing. This in turn freed up the rest of the attack that little bit more, as we didn't lose a CM into the quarterback position. The entire team had a much better balance with Ki on the ball in the centre circle, with players coming towards him rather than expecting him to play that 50 yard Hollywood ball every time. We're far too one dimensional in the Prem with Shelvey in the side, it's pathetic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Puppets Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I think people are drastically rewriting history, or at least placing far too much importance on Ki being the turning point. we're really not like doesn't necessarily mean that everything is shelvey's fault or whatever just that once ki came in things clicked for the team as a whole largely due to the way he played it out per loki's post...from that point on shelvey was done under rafa imo especially as we had 2 cb's that could play the hollywood balls shelvey was doing anyways we went from have 1 tactic/threat - shelvey direct to the strikers from deep - to still having that option but also being able to play through the middle and move the whole team up, bringing the full backs into play higher up the pitch etc. not sure what you were watching Not entirely sure how that’s Shelvey’s fault like. Seems more of a tactical fault to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I think people are drastically rewriting history, or at least placing far too much importance on Ki being the turning point. we're really not like doesn't necessarily mean that everything is shelvey's fault or whatever just that once ki came in things clicked for the team as a whole largely due to the way he played it out per loki's post...from that point on shelvey was done under rafa imo especially as we had 2 cb's that could play the hollywood balls shelvey was doing anyways we went from have 1 tactic/threat - shelvey direct to the strikers from deep - to still having that option but also being able to play through the middle and move the whole team up, bringing the full backs into play higher up the pitch etc. not sure what you were watching Not entirely sure how that’s Shelvey’s fault like. Seems more of a tactical fault to me. which is why i said that exact thing the sentence before? it's not his fault but equally he's not capable of playing the ball and moving intelligently like ki does under pressure in the middle which is why he reverts to the long pass so often....the way we played literally changed overnight when ki came in, sorry it just did Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 For all his flaws, I actually quite rate Shelvey and enjoy watching him play. However, I totally take what people are saying on board about him in regards to how we became predictable and one dimensional. What I can't get my head round is Ki being such an important player in our upturn in form? I thought he was one of our worst players last season and didn't really contribute anything. But if it was a subtle change of just someone who plays a bit further forward and is a bit more mobile (he's still slow and weak as fuck). Then maybe I missed it and just wasn't paying attention. I feel like I haven't been paying proper attention to NUFC for 5 years or so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 remember ki's first couple of games at the start of the season? some of the worst shit i've ever seen tbf, diabolically bad was when he came in later on he was really good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 remember ki's first couple of games at the start of the season? some of the worst shit i've ever seen tbf, diabolically bad was when he came in later on he was really good Maybe that's what it is?! He was so shit at the start, I then had a fixed opinion on him and I was overly-critical and never changed my stance when he came back in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 remember ki's first couple of games at the start of the season? some of the worst shit i've ever seen tbf, diabolically bad was when he came in later on he was really good Maybe that's what it is?! He was so shit at the start, I then had a fixed opinion on him and I was overly-critical and never changed my stance when he came back in. chelsea & man city i think were the games, looked so badly off the pace it was terrifying didn't play again for nearly 2 months then was class until he fucked off to the asian cup Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Does Shelvey not know he had a chronic recurring muscle injury all last season which meant he was unavailable for selection? I know Rafa is magic but he can’t just heal a man with a touch of his groin Facts are when he was fully fit over the last 3 years Rafa Benitez picked him for a large percentage of games. Shelvey just seems frustrated he was injured all last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Puppets Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 remember ki's first couple of games at the start of the season? some of the worst shit i've ever seen tbf, diabolically bad was when he came in later on he was really good Maybe that's what it is?! He was so shit at the start, I then had a fixed opinion on him and I was overly-critical and never changed my stance when he came back in. chelsea & man city i think were the games, looked so badly off the pace it was terrifying didn't play again for nearly 2 months then was class until he fucked off to the asian cup What? Our results were largely horrendous in the lead up to him going away (as they were for a few weeks after as well). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 he came back for the draw at southampton then carried on playing and getting better as we won the next 3 games? it was a major turning point in the season, we'd not won before that point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 You don't even have to look at the results, the football we were playing was much better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 You don't even have to look at the results, the football we were playing was much better. one led to the other, imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Poor Jonjo ain’t got shit on Longstaff and Hayden partnership when it was flying. Albeit briefly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Not even the best passer at the club. Top 4 maybe. Maybe a bit harsh. I'd say Ki is up there with him, Schar as well but I'm not sure who else would be in the conversation. Ki is a good passer? He seems like the ultimate 'nothing player' to me. Couldn't even tell you what he is supposed to be decent at? Whatever people's views are on Jonjo's contribution, comments and all round ability. His passing is outrageously good, IMO. ki changed the entire shape of our play when he came in last season, then longstaff came in and did the same thing even better when he f***ed off to the asian cup What did he do exactly, bar run around slightly more than Shelvey? I'm not even sure I'm being sarcastic, anymore I genuinely can't remember Ki doing anything decent, or contributing much. Just seems like another squad player that isn't good enough, to go with the other 10-15 that we already have. Ki is a much better short passer than Shelvey. Always gives an option, gets it and gives it to a Newcastle player and moves somewhere where he can get it back. Both players are suited to different types of games Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsprillasShinPad Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Shelvey has gone so far backwards in the last year. Before the WC, people were suggesting he should have been going to the WC. Now, he's become a bit of a hate figure. I think Scharrrr's arrival in the squad has shown Shelvey to be a bit of a fraud. We are desperate for a midfielder who can split defences, yet Shelvey refuses to get into the positions where he could do so. Instead, he takes a 5 yard pass from a CB, then tries to play a 70 yard pass to no-one, losing possession 95% of the time. It's so frustrating, and since Schar can ping the ball about a bit, a waste of a place in the team too. You think he'd adjust his game and start getting forward, but all he seems to do is amble around in the DM position without actually closing anyone down. Not good enough... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 We are desperate for a midfielder who can split defences, yet Shelvey refuses to get into the positions where he could do so. we've got one now in longstaff, that's exactly what he does well vs. shelvey and even ki Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 I don't know where the groundswell of hate for Shelvey has come from. Normally, within 5 minutes of coming on the pitch from the bench he'll play a forward pass that no one else in the side is capable of playing. Potentially his passing ability combined with Almiron's pace could be absolutely key to our survival this season. I've always liked and rated Shelvey and i think he should be one of the first players on the team sheet. As other people have touched on (and been shouted down) he is one of the best passers in the PL, hence why he was being touted for a World Cup call up not long ago. He often didn't suit Rafa's style of play or tactics but he is clearly an asset and we're pretty short of those right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 He’s inconsistent and disappears in a fair amount of games. Then the peasant thing killed it for me. He can fuck off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Puppets Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 He’s inconsistent and disappears in a fair amount of games. Then the peasant thing killed it for me. He can fuck off The peasant things that he said in retaliation to being verbally abused in the street? As far as I'm concerned he's well within his rights to say something back to someone abusing him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ManDoon Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 The problem with Shelvey is that we aren’t good enough to carry his woeful defensive contribution. In a better side it’s okay to have that but we can’t afford it. As for the peasant thing, I’m as left wing as it gets but I don’t think he’s out of order for that, if someone is giving you stick, all bets are off imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 He’s inconsistent and disappears in a fair amount of games. Then the peasant thing killed it for me. He can fuck off The peasant things that he said in retaliation to being verbally abused in the street? As far as I'm concerned he's well within his rights to say something back to someone abusing him. I mean his peasant comment was shite. But I've seen worse, every Saturday night for 30 years. Only nobody deems the average moron as newsworthy (unless they're promoting far-right populism, of course). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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