C*CK P*SS P*RDEW

[Hanshithispantz]

I'm not sure what evidence you're expecting him to have.

I expected him to have no evidence, that’s the point, he’d heard rumours. So what do you do if you hear your mate is a nonce? In the real world, not in the world where you’re some kind of moral prophet?

 

I like to think I'd do the right thing. And I'd like to think I'd be raked over the coals if I didn't.

And you might do the right thing, you shouldn't be raked over the coals for not though, its a perfectly natural reaction to not know how to react in a situation like that.

[Greg]

It's not about running to the police as you put it. I'd like to think most of us in that situation at the very least discreetly report such allegations up the management chain to the correct level.

[Hanshithispantz]

He'd heard rumours that his mate was bumming the Newcastle youth man, it'd have been a total mindfuck.

[LionOfGosforth]

I'm not sure what evidence you're expecting him to have.

I expected him to have no evidence, that’s the point, he’d heard rumours. So what do you do if you hear your mate is a nonce? In the real world, not in the world where you’re some kind of moral prophet?

 

I like to think I'd do the right thing. And I'd like to think I'd be raked over the coals if I didn't.

And you might do the right thing, you shouldn't be raked over the coals for not though, <b> its a perfectly natural reaction to not know how to react in a situation like that.</b>

 

Totally true, i'd be a basket case if it were someone I knew. I'd still do something, report it to the club, at least begin an internal investigation. You just have to, even if it's only an allegation at that point, the ramifications of doing nothing if it turned out to be true are too damaging.

[Hanshithispantz]

I'm not sure what evidence you're expecting him to have.

I expected him to have no evidence, that’s the point, he’d heard rumours. So what do you do if you hear your mate is a nonce? In the real world, not in the world where you’re some kind of moral prophet?

 

I like to think I'd do the right thing. And I'd like to think I'd be raked over the coals if I didn't.

And you might do the right thing, you shouldn't be raked over the coals for not though, <b> its a perfectly natural reaction to not know how to react in a situation like that.</b>

 

Totally true, i'd be a basket case if it were someone I knew. I'd still do something, report it to the club, at least begin an internal investigation. You just have to, even if it's only an allegation at that point, the ramifications of doing nothing if it turned out to be true are too damaging.

Aye I'm not saying you wouldn't like, just that I can completely see the reasons Carver might not have done the right thing at the time and I think it's canny unfair to essentially insinuate he helped harbour a nonce at the club without knowing more.

 

I doubt I would personally, but I don't know. I just imagine I'd be too shocked to the point I'd be in denial - that seems to happen often in these cases (yewtree/weinstein etc). I'd absolutely hate anything like that to come out about a close friend (obviously )

[Guest ElCid]

Carver and Ormand were at the same Montagu Boys Club for a few years when Carver was a youngster and Ormand was a coach.

[stlouismag]

I'm not expected him to have no evidence, that’s the point, he’d heard rumours. So what do you do if you hear your mate is a nonce? In the real world, not in the world where you’re some kind of moral prophet?

 

One of the few things the U.S. does right on this issue is creating mandated reporters - people in positions of likely trust with kids - doctors, nurses, teachers, social workers, coaches - who are required by law to report allegations of child abuse, including sexual abuse, to the governmental agencies that are (theoretically) trained to investigate those situations. Obviously, the system is far from perfect, but it's a step in the right direction because it removes the "do I report or not" option - be found to have failed to report, and lose your professional license.

 

My wife and I (both of us are mandated reporters due to our jobs) were in the awkward situation of having to hotline our son's girlfriend's family a couple of years ago after she came to us with allegations of physical and mental abuse by her parents.

[Altamullan]

Every employer in the UK, who works with or may come into to contact with children or vulnerable adults, have safeguarding procedures. Whilst the content may vary, they will all have at their core a fundamental rule that you communicate the concerns. Doing nothing isn’t an option. I don’t know whether the club would have had safeguarding procedures, and mandated staff training, at that time. They, and all other football clubs, do now.

[SEMTEX]

So hans is a nonce-apologist as well now? I wish I could say I was surprised. Might report him to my boss.

[mrmojorisin75]

 

If you hear allegations that someone is a nonce you’re not going to immediately run to the police without evidence.

 

What are abuse victims supposed to do? They rarely have any kind of evidence.

 

You'd think he'd at least have not let the dude be around kids until it was resolved. But he didn't do anything about it.

 

one thing i'm sure we can all agree on is that carver should never have been put in a position to deal with something of that nature in the first place, he's not got the intelligence or training for it, and everything we know about carver tells us that he's dealt with it exactly as i would have expected him to, i.e. badly/not at all

[Darth Crooks]

Title only says he failed to act and he did.

[Beren]

I know it’s not a laughing matter, but you really couldn’t look like any more of a pedophile if you tried:

 

 

FFS

[Guest firetotheworks]

I know it’s not a laughing matter, but you really couldn’t look like any more of a pedophile if you tried:

 

There's only one possible addition.

 

 

 

 

Wanted a shoe for running:

 

width=600http://img.wolverineworldwide.com/is/image/WolverineWorldWide/MRL-W06525-052113?op_usm=0.5,1&wid=1012&hei=554&qlt=70&fmt=jpg&extend=0,0,0,0[/img]

 

...away from Dark Justice?

 

 

 

[Guest firetotheworks]

As an aside, I've never known anything like it for some posters on here using these situations as a vehicle for proper falling over themselves to show off about being bog-standard, basically decent human beings like.

 

[TheHoob]

I know it’s not a laughing matter, but you really couldn’t look like any more of a pedophile if you tried:

 

 

he's still no backpack nonce mind.

[Guest neesy111]

Zero excuse for Carver to not even follow it up with further lines of enquiry to start with.

[Big Geordie]

If someone came to me in my job (as a support worker) and made allegations against someone I knew or worked with, it’s your personal duty to report and escalate it up the chain of command. If it transpired that I knew and said nout - I’d be sacked. Carver is a prick.

[Jimburst]

Aye, no excuses tbh. It's probably more about the culture and the lack of awareness people had about stuff like this back then, especially someone like John Carver, but these days I would hope most of us wouldn't hesitate.

 

Even if he was your mate, you'd bring it up with him and smack him or something ffs. He's sexually abusing kids.

[Hanshithispantz]

Title only says he failed to act and he did.

Even the Guardian goes with "did not take action on abuse claims right away" instead of "failed to act" man. Although "gives evidence in nonce trial" also works. He's also talking about things that happened 20 year ago, I doubt even he has a decent memory of how it went down.

 

It's not even the title really anyway tbh, I think Carver is a total cunt but I think it needed pointing out that this is actually probably not heinous behaviour and that there's evidence this kind of reaction is pretty common. I think it's canny harsh to demonised him over it.

[LFEE]

Carver and Ormand were at the same Montagu Boys Club for a few years when Carver was a youngster and Ormand was a coach.

 

Carver used to wear a Wolves top at the time as they were the team he supported as a boy.

[Hanshithispantz]

If someone came to me in my job (as a support worker) and made allegations against someone I knew or worked with, it’s your personal duty to report and escalate it up the chain of command. If it transpired that I knew and said nout - I’d be sacked. Carver is a prick.

You've probably received better 'training' like. I might not be giving the 90s enough credit but I would hope the entire system around youth players is different now.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

It’s inexcusable, but we have to remember the era and times where this thing wasn’t something talked about, back then it was a culture of mates and lads at a football club so while again it inexcusable from Carver because if it was me I’d have went to the club or whatever and said something, but he shouldn’t be condemned now all these years later. I can’t stand the bloke, but by all accounts he’s a canny enough fella when he’s not licking windows, offering fans on and masterminding defeat after defeat.

[Guest ElCid]

Carver and Ormand were at the same Montagu Boys Club for a few years when Carver was a youngster and Ormand was a coach.

 

Carver used to wear a Wolves top at the time as they were the team he supported as a boy.

 

Your right I know

[Darth Crooks]

Title only says he failed to act and he did.

Even the Guardian goes with "did not take action on abuse claims right away" instead of "failed to act" man. Although "gives evidence in nonce trial" also works. He's also talking about things that happened 20 year ago, I doubt even he has a decent memory of how it went down.

 

It's not even the title really anyway tbh, I think Carver is a total cunt but I think it needed pointing out that this is actually probably not heinous behaviour and that there's evidence this kind of reaction is pretty common. I think it's canny harsh to demonised him over it.

 

Well I understand where you're coming from but it just seems to underline further to me he's just useless and lacks professionalism or adequate common sense. I think most people will stop short of accusing him of some kind of support for Ormand's actions.

[mrmojorisin75]

If someone came to me in my job (as a support worker) and made allegations against someone I knew or worked with, it’s your personal duty to report and escalate it up the chain of command. If it transpired that I knew and said nout - I’d be sacked. Carver is a prick.

You've probably received better 'training' like. I might not be giving the 90s enough credit but I would hope the entire system around youth players is different now.

 

for once i'm in agreement with hans like, i simply wouldn't have expected anything else of the likes of carver...doesn't make his inaction right or whatever but it's 100% the reaction i'd have expected