madras Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 It was funny when Ritchie pressed high and waved for us to press with him, the tactics don't allow it! It's not tactics, are you saying Ritchie was allowed to get forwards but nobody else was? He was screaming at Dummett to get up behind him to defend further up the pitch and he was getting at Colback to start marking people rather than fresh air. He also had a go at Shelvey at one point when he played a ridiculous pass out for a goal kick. It was tactics, Ritchie wasn't supposed to go charging forward like that (although it was the right thing to do imo if the rest had the bottle to follow) . Interesting though as a while back people wrere saying Mbemba got dropped because of not following instructions V Wolves, todays instrustions seemed to balls over the top through the middle for Gayle (re Shelvey pass out for goal kick) which didn't work and there were a lot more of those passes today. It seems like you can tell within 5 mins at home what the plan is, long diagonals or whatever and it's bloody obvious and whats worse is that we just keep on hammering at that tactic. You're right, the long diagonal balls are a tactic, and we play a relatively cautious formation on Rafa's instructions as well. I don't think he trusts these players to get a result playing a more attacking game personally. Even if it was his style - and it's not - I can't say I blame him. We manage to give away soft goals even when we play defensively. Our s*** passing isn't down to his tactics btw, he played a similar formation with Liverpool but they passed it around a lot better. Too many of our players just aren't good enough or lack balls. Load of crap to me. Get at teams when we are at home with what we have in this division. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 It was funny when Ritchie pressed high and waved for us to press with him, the tactics don't allow it! It's not tactics, are you saying Ritchie was allowed to get forwards but nobody else was? He was screaming at Dummett to get up behind him to defend further up the pitch and he was getting at Colback to start marking people rather than fresh air. He also had a go at Shelvey at one point when he played a ridiculous pass out for a goal kick. It was tactics, Ritchie wasn't supposed to go charging forward like that (although it was the right thing to do imo if the rest had the bottle to follow) . Interesting though as a while back people wrere saying Mbemba got dropped because of not following instructions V Wolves, todays instrustions seemed to balls over the top through the middle for Gayle (re Shelvey pass out for goal kick) which didn't work and there were a lot more of those passes today. It seems like you can tell within 5 mins at home what the plan is, long diagonals or whatever and it's bloody obvious and whats worse is that we just keep on hammering at that tactic. You're right, the long diagonal balls are a tactic, and we play a relatively cautious formation on Rafa's instructions as well. I don't think he trusts these players to get a result playing a more attacking game personally. Even if it was his style - and it's not - I can't say I blame him. We manage to give away soft goals even when we play defensively. Our s*** passing isn't down to his tactics btw, he played a similar formation with Liverpool but they passed it around a lot better. Too many of our players just aren't good enough or lack balls. Load of crap to me. Get at teams when we are at home with what we have in this division. Simplistic to say the least. What would be your line up to get at teams in this division? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDonis Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Seems like some of you are determined to berate Rafa regardless. I don't remember anyone jumping on him like this in his first season for us, and we were thirty points off the top. Fair enough. But personally I don't think you'd be in this strong a position if he wasn't your manager personally, regardless of what happened last time you were in the Champo. You had a team almost tailor made for footie at that level then and some leaders and winners. Out of interest, what was he like for you when you played at home? Good. We blew teams away quite often. But we had a team that could do that, especially when Torres arrived. We pressed and squeezed teams high up the pitch and and played him in. Not many could match our intensity. But it meant we were vulnerable to teams who could counter, especially as Carra and Sami Hyppia were hardly pacy CBs. I remember Villa when they had Agbonlahor and a few other pacy guys beating us a few times. Rafa also built a midfield of Alonso, Mascherano and Gerrard (a bit better than Shelvey, Colback and Diame I admit...) which meant we always had control. We dropped points, usually draws, which did cost us at a time when Man Utd seem to win every fucking game in the 93rd minute. Our intensity would drop, or Rafa might rotate with a European game in mind, understandably sometimes, as our squad wasn't as deep as others. But generally I remember the odd insipid away performance being more of a problem than home form. But it cost us. Rafa is not title winning manager (though he won two titles in Spain.) Thing is, Rafa turns everyone into a tactical expert. He sets such a great store by it. And gets it right so often and gets the plaudits. But it means when the tactics go wrong he gets the crap. And tactics only work if players are able to carry them out. And players are fallible. These debates were common when he was at LFC. Just let them off the leash, some would say. But you need a tactical plan, said others. Rafa's always got a plan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDonis Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 p.s Typing that reminded how many leaders we had. I've said this before, but your team is shy of them. You have Ritchie it seems, possibly Shelvey, but Jonjo is so flakey and a big kid. Your only true winner and leader is Rafa and I sometimes feel he's having to micro-manage you to promotion. Or maybe he thinks that, and that's part of the problem. He doesn't trust the players enough. Not that it's much of a problem as you're top of the fucking league! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Interesting insight mate. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 p.s Typing that reminded how many leaders we had. I've said this before, but your team is shy of them. You have Ritchie it seems, possibly Shelvey, but Jonjo is so flakey and a big kid. Your only true winner and leader is Rafa and I sometimes feel he's having to micro-manage you to promotion. Or maybe he thinks that, and that's part of the problem. He doesn't trust the players enough. Not that it's much of a problem as you're top of the fucking league! Spot on mate. Although without genuine leaders in the side I'm glad we've got the points on board that we have, because we might be scraping our way to the rest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 He treats each match like a strategic game of chess...... which is a shame as chess is fucking boring as fuck too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Seems like some of you are determined to berate Rafa regardless. I don't remember anyone jumping on him like this in his first season for us, and we were thirty points off the top. Fair enough. But personally I don't think you'd be in this strong a position if he wasn't your manager personally, regardless of what happened last time you were in the Champo. You had a team almost tailor made for footie at that level then and some leaders and winners. Out of interest, what was he like for you when you played at home? Good. We blew teams away quite often. But we had a team that could do that, especially when Torres arrived. We pressed and squeezed teams high up the pitch and and played him in. Not many could match our intensity. But it meant we were vulnerable to teams who could counter, especially as Carra and Sami Hyppia were hardly pacy CBs. I remember Villa when they had Agbonlahor and a few other pacy guys beating us a few times. Rafa also built a midfield of Alonso, Mascherano and Gerrard (a bit better than Shelvey, Colback and Diame I admit...) which meant we always had control. We dropped points, usually draws, which did cost us at a time when Man Utd seem to win every f***ing game in the 93rd minute. Our intensity would drop, or Rafa might rotate with a European game in mind, understandably sometimes, as our squad wasn't as deep as others. But generally I remember the odd insipid away performance being more of a problem than home form. But it cost us. Rafa is not title winning manager (though he won two titles in Spain.) Thing is, Rafa turns everyone into a tactical expert. He sets such a great store by it. And gets it right so often and gets the plaudits. But it means when the tactics go wrong he gets the crap. And tactics only work if players are able to carry them out. And players are fallible. These debates were common when he was at LFC. Just let them off the leash, some would say. But you need a tactical plan, said others. Rafa's always got a plan. For all the money that was spent, andthis was pre man city and chelsea days, did Liverepool really come close to wining the title under Rafa ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDonis Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Seems like some of you are determined to berate Rafa regardless. I don't remember anyone jumping on him like this in his first season for us, and we were thirty points off the top. Fair enough. But personally I don't think you'd be in this strong a position if he wasn't your manager personally, regardless of what happened last time you were in the Champo. You had a team almost tailor made for footie at that level then and some leaders and winners. Out of interest, what was he like for you when you played at home? Good. We blew teams away quite often. But we had a team that could do that, especially when Torres arrived. We pressed and squeezed teams high up the pitch and and played him in. Not many could match our intensity. But it meant we were vulnerable to teams who could counter, especially as Carra and Sami Hyppia were hardly pacy CBs. I remember Villa when they had Agbonlahor and a few other pacy guys beating us a few times. Rafa also built a midfield of Alonso, Mascherano and Gerrard (a bit better than Shelvey, Colback and Diame I admit...) which meant we always had control. We dropped points, usually draws, which did cost us at a time when Man Utd seem to win every f***ing game in the 93rd minute. Our intensity would drop, or Rafa might rotate with a European game in mind, understandably sometimes, as our squad wasn't as deep as others. But generally I remember the odd insipid away performance being more of a problem than home form. But it cost us. Rafa is not title winning manager (though he won two titles in Spain.) Thing is, Rafa turns everyone into a tactical expert. He sets such a great store by it. And gets it right so often and gets the plaudits. But it means when the tactics go wrong he gets the crap. And tactics only work if players are able to carry them out. And players are fallible. These debates were common when he was at LFC. Just let them off the leash, some would say. But you need a tactical plan, said others. Rafa's always got a plan. For all the money that was spent, andthis was pre man city and chelsea days, did Liverepool really come close to wining the title under Rafa ? Pre Chelsea days? You sure about that? Yes we did. In 2008/09. We got 86 points, which would have won it most seasons. Thought we had it but Howard Webb....another time, another time. This to a backdrop of boardroom fuckery too. But winning Premier league titles is not his strong point in my view. Not that I think that should be a dealbreaker right now for you lads, like.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
magorific Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 It was funny when Ritchie pressed high and waved for us to press with him, the tactics don't allow it! It's not tactics, are you saying Ritchie was allowed to get forwards but nobody else was? He was screaming at Dummett to get up behind him to defend further up the pitch and he was getting at Colback to start marking people rather than fresh air. He also had a go at Shelvey at one point when he played a ridiculous pass out for a goal kick. It was tactics, Ritchie wasn't supposed to go charging forward like that (although it was the right thing to do imo if the rest had the bottle to follow) . Interesting though as a while back people wrere saying Mbemba got dropped because of not following instructions V Wolves, todays instrustions seemed to balls over the top through the middle for Gayle (re Shelvey pass out for goal kick) which didn't work and there were a lot more of those passes today. It seems like you can tell within 5 mins at home what the plan is, long diagonals or whatever and it's bloody obvious and whats worse is that we just keep on hammering at that tactic. You're right, the long diagonal balls are a tactic, and we play a relatively cautious formation on Rafa's instructions as well. I don't think he trusts these players to get a result playing a more attacking game personally. Even if it was his style - and it's not - I can't say I blame him. We manage to give away soft goals even when we play defensively. Our s*** passing isn't down to his tactics btw, he played a similar formation with Liverpool but they passed it around a lot better. Too many of our players just aren't good enough or lack balls. Load of crap to me. Get at teams when we are at home with what we have in this division. Simplistic to say the least. What would be your line up to get at teams in this division? If your only tactic at home is long balls, then start Murphy in a 4-4-2. It's really that simple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Abramovich took over Chelsea before Benitez even joined Liverpool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Abramovich took over Chelsea before Benitez even joined Liverpool. Yep, they also won the league in 2004/5 with a record number of points, which was Rafa's first at Liverpool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 It was funny when Ritchie pressed high and waved for us to press with him, the tactics don't allow it! It's not tactics, are you saying Ritchie was allowed to get forwards but nobody else was? He was screaming at Dummett to get up behind him to defend further up the pitch and he was getting at Colback to start marking people rather than fresh air. He also had a go at Shelvey at one point when he played a ridiculous pass out for a goal kick. It was tactics, Ritchie wasn't supposed to go charging forward like that (although it was the right thing to do imo if the rest had the bottle to follow) . Interesting though as a while back people wrere saying Mbemba got dropped because of not following instructions V Wolves, todays instrustions seemed to balls over the top through the middle for Gayle (re Shelvey pass out for goal kick) which didn't work and there were a lot more of those passes today. It seems like you can tell within 5 mins at home what the plan is, long diagonals or whatever and it's bloody obvious and whats worse is that we just keep on hammering at that tactic. You're right, the long diagonal balls are a tactic, and we play a relatively cautious formation on Rafa's instructions as well. I don't think he trusts these players to get a result playing a more attacking game personally. Even if it was his style - and it's not - I can't say I blame him. We manage to give away soft goals even when we play defensively. Our s*** passing isn't down to his tactics btw, he played a similar formation with Liverpool but they passed it around a lot better. Too many of our players just aren't good enough or lack balls. Load of crap to me. Get at teams when we are at home with what we have in this division. Simplistic to say the least. What would be your line up to get at teams in this division? If your only tactic at home is long balls, then start Murphy in a 4-4-2. It's really that simple. If our only tactic at home was to play long balls then I doubt Darlow would be looking to roll the ball out to defenders to carry the ball forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I thought our tactic was to hit long balls over the top for Gayle because Fulham were squeezing high and had such a high line and we'd try and turn them. We really needed to press their keeper and defence to kick it long, which we didn't do until 75 minutes when we scored our goal. We probably should have had someone follow Cairney around the pitch constantly too. I've also noticed that we nearly always play our first corner short with Shelvey and Ritchie in games and it worked terribly today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Nowt new there. Everyone knows we needed strengthening in a couple of positions in January. That's nowt to do with the negative tactics at home though We've scored 38 goals in 18 league home games, like, and have some of the highest possession & shots. I'd hardly say we're negative. Inefficient & inconsistent, definitely. Stats can hide a multitude of sins. According to the stats we should have got battered at Huddersfield last week. Exactly - they had far more possession than us and if they had had a decent striker we would have lost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Nowt new there. Everyone knows we needed strengthening in a couple of positions in January. That's nowt to do with the negative tactics at home though We've scored 38 goals in 18 league home games, like, and have some of the highest possession & shots. I'd hardly say we're negative. Inefficient & inconsistent, definitely. Stats can hide a multitude of sins. According to the stats we should have got battered at Huddersfield last week. Exactly - they had far more possession than us and if they had had a decent striker we would have lost. That's bollocks, they barely had a shot from inside our penalty area because we didn't let them create anything apart from efforts from miles out. Their striker didn't miss any sitters because we prevented any service to him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Nowt new there. Everyone knows we needed strengthening in a couple of positions in January. That's nowt to do with the negative tactics at home though We've scored 38 goals in 18 league home games, like, and have some of the highest possession & shots. I'd hardly say we're negative. Inefficient & inconsistent, definitely. Stats can hide a multitude of sins. According to the stats we should have got battered at Huddersfield last week. Exactly - they had far more possession than us and if they had had a decent striker we would have lost. They barely had a shot other than from 25 yards plus, so no. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 long balls over the top to gayle may have been effective if we had an in form shelvey launching them, not our inept back 5. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decky Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 I think we need to start Murphy and Gayle in our remaining home games. Wishful thinking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Got it wrong today. Shit happens. Onto the next 7 wins out of 10. #Champions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 We've got 9 left. Hopefully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 We've got 9 left. Hopefully. fair dues. 7 out of 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty__mag Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Cant believe he continues to play Colback. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Banaloona Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 He gets it wrong every home game. we'd be promoted already with a more positive manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubaricho Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 He gets it wrong every home game. we'd be promoted already with a more positive manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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