KaKa Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Some of the talk is quite unsettling. I must say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Beds being wet aal owa the shop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Beds being wet aal owa the shop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 You can tell we've lost a game. People questioning everything. People questioning Rafa. Wey give owwa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Beds being wet aal owa the shop. Some people don't know they're born/remember that our last three managers were John Carver, Steve McLaren, and Alan Pardew. It's quite alarming how quickly people have taken things for granted. We're owed NOTHING by Rafa, learn to have a bit of faith and humility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Can understand his thought process a lot more now, after hearing his post-match comments. Most interesting takeaway was him saying players were panicking on the ball and playing it long, leading to them picking up the second balls. That would probably explain his lack of Mitro intro (a situation he needs to sort this Jan, IMO) in that he didn't want to encourage us stretching play in that fashion. He's probably looking at it from the European standpoint - to break teams down, you keep a wider general shape and work the ball into the final third and then speed play up. His big problem is still midfield, IMO. Think he misjudged a couple of players and what they're capable of without Shelvey. Diame's contribution from a 10 was especially pathetic. I'm not sold on 4-4-2, either - we were porous with the extra man yesterday, don't think we've got the athleticism in midfield or the individual defensive quality to cope with opening up like that. We've shown we can play really good football in 4-2-3-1, he just needs to find the balance again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiotes Witch Doctor Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Losing 6 games in half a season in the championship isn't particularly impressive and there's some definite concerns about the mentality of the team, the second we went 1-0 down yesterday it was obvious to everyone we weren't going to come back, players are declining and the general play is poor to watch even when we win. Even the best managers have to tweak things and make changes, he has made errors in judgement in my opinion and he should be looking at rectifying them. Its alright saying "in Rafa we trust" and "Do you think you know better than Rafa?" But at the end of the day things do need to pick up a bit, luckily hes such a good manager that I have faith he will get it sorted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Losing 6 games in half a season in the championship isn't particularly impressive and there's some definite concerns about the mentality of the team, the second we went 1-0 down yesterday it was obvious to everyone we weren't going to come back, players are declining and the general play is poor to watch even when we win. Even the best managers have to tweak things and make changes, he has made errors in judgement in my opinion and he should be looking at rectifying them. Its alright saying "in Rafa we trust" and "Do you think you know better than Rafa?" But at the end of the day things do need to pick up a bit, luckily hes such a good manager that I have faith he will get it sorted. Are faith and trust the same thing on this occasion ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Beds being wet aal owa the shop. Some people don't know they're born/remember that our last three managers were John Carver, Steve McLaren, and Alan Pardew. It's quite alarming how quickly people have taken things for granted. We're owed NOTHING by Rafa, learn to have a bit of faith and humility. It's crazy man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 If only we were all as balanced and understated as Kaka Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiotes Witch Doctor Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Beds being wet aal owa the shop. Some people don't know they're born/remember that our last three managers were John Carver, Steve McLaren, and Alan Pardew. It's quite alarming how quickly people have taken things for granted. We're owed NOTHING by Rafa, learn to have a bit of faith and humility. So hes not allowed criticism at all? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Its the hysterical emotive shit that is absolutley appalling. It's childish as fuck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Losing 6 games in half a season in the championship isn't particularly impressive and there's some definite concerns about the mentality of the team, the second we went 1-0 down yesterday it was obvious to everyone we weren't going to come back, players are declining and the general play is poor to watch even when we win. Even the best managers have to tweak things and make changes, he has made errors in judgement in my opinion and he should be looking at rectifying them. Its alright saying "in Rafa we trust" and "Do you think you know better than Rafa?" But at the end of the day things do need to pick up a bit, luckily hes such a good manager that I have faith he will get it sorted. Totally agree with this - I cannot understand why some fans persist in sticking their heads in the sand and pretending everything is OK when it isn't - as you say, TWD, losing 6 games - 4 at home - in half a season in the Championship is NOT impressive esp when other chasing clubs are showing little sign of showing similar lapses in form. As I recall, quite a number of fans used to harangue those who complained about Pardew when it was clear that the guy was a con-man and these same people are now trying to shut down debate about an aspect of the team's performances which is clearly a concern and using the 'In Rafa we trust' mentality to stop others examining the whole thing. NOBODY on here has equated Rafa with the likes of McClaren, Carver and P45Due and nor should they, but it is perfectly reasonable to question why the manager plays a certain way if it shows signs of not working, or why he makes certain decisions during games. I have never personally criticized him at all this season because he clearly has done a great job in a short time but I DID question why it took him so long to bring Mitro on during the Weds game because it was clear that their physical approach was giving Gayle no chance. Many fans took KK to task when he sold Andy Cole to Man U in 1995 but Keegan went out and talked to them and explained his decision..he also said that he knew what the consequences were if he got it wrong, so NO manager is above being questioned. Any honest fan who has seen us play, esp at home this season, will admit that the football has hardly been scintillating but when you need to get results people will accept that. What does make them uneasy is when the results are becoming patchy, especially in home games ; anyone with any sense knows that you cannot lose more than a certain number of games if you want/need to win leagues or gain promotion because the competition is intense. As things stand now, we are roughly where we deserve to be and that is NOT at the top of the league because Brighton have been more consistent especially at home. Had it not been for Darlow, our goal difference advantage would have been eaten away because we could easily have conceded 4 against Weds and Brighton scored 3 without reply last night. Other clubs are also showing consistent performances, Reading and Leeds among them and Derby have also put a good run together although it remains to be seen if that continues under McClaren. This league is FAR from settled and the sooner many fans get it into their heads that we face a battle to avoid the lottery of the Play-offs, the better...because we do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 FWIW, I think a lot of your fears aren't based in reality. Rafa's plan B won him the Champions League, man. He changes things up during matches a lot, it not always working isn't the same as him not changing anything. He did, but he had better players at his disposal then than he has now....some fans have built our squad up to be PL quality...and it is NOT. Players like Colback and Dummett, to name just 2, should not be in a PL squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubaricho Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 FWIW, I think a lot of your fears aren't based in reality. Rafa's plan B won him the Champions League, man. He changes things up during matches a lot, it not always working isn't the same as him not changing anything. He did, but he had better players at his disposal then than he has now....some fans have built our squad up to be PL quality...and it is NOT. Players like Colback and Dummett, to name just 2, should not be in a PL squad. Good thing we're not in the Premier League then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Alot of hyperbole in here following a horrid performance. I'd argue that imo we're about 4 quality signings away from being a solid mid table Premiership side (injuries permitting). An experienced centre back, an attacking left back, a winger, and a proper number 10. The latter two need to be creative to take away the complete reliance the current side has on Shelvey, and a good left back will complement Yedlin on the other flank and ensure 90% of our attacks down the left aren't wasted as they currently are with Dummett, and one good experienced centreback will be more than enough to solidify the defense with Clark/Lascelles/Mbemba/Hanley as partner. In fact, Lascelles and Mbemba already formed a competent Premiership partnership towards the back end of last season. Whilst I understand the doom and gloom nature of some mindsets following a disappointing defeat and worrying performance against a mediocre team who were made to look like world beaters, lets not forget that according to some (many?) in here we were going to struggle to even compete for promotion since we didn't have this core of strong personalities that we had last time round, or that we hadn't signed proper proven quality goalscorers (Gayle was an unknown quantity, Murphy a mediocre Mackem). In fact, the last time we were in the Championship I remember many of us being completely down because of the lack of signings in the summer window post relegation (Lovenkrands the only permanent signing iirc), and even after promotion we were still going to struggle badly given the squad we had without major investment. And of course none of that panned out that way - so the glass half full view isn't always the right perspective. There's a few of things to consider as to maybe why: 1) Mediocre players can be useful, even in the Premiership. It's all about balance, and having enough good players to carry those around them. When we finished 5th under Pardew we had Raylor, Obertan, Saylor, Guthrie, Jonas, Best, Simpson, Perch, etc, in and out of the side. 2) A couple of good signings can transform a team entirely. Think Robert and Bellamy transforming a slow, boring, predictable lower mid table side into an attacking, free flowing top 4 team under Sir Bobby. Or Woodgate making Bramble/O'Brien look solid. Adding the right "something" can completely negate a weakness which impacts the team as a whole, and that something doesn't need to be changing an entire team. 3) A very common trait with fans is completely overlooking, or failing to understand the concept of, players improving with time and experience. Everything has to be here and now. People want someone proven immediately, failing that it's "game over". Sort of like that West Ham fan a couple of decades ago having a go at Harry Redknapp for displaying nepotistic favoritism by playing his 18 year old nephew who wasn't good enough, Frank Lampard. Closer to home Andy Carroll and Tim Krul are the most recent relevant NUFC examples of players declared my many at the time to be not good enough for the Championship, or the Premiership, and it seems to be the case that being proven wrong doesn't soften the lack of faith in players improving. FWIW I'd say Darlow, Yedlin, Clark, Ritchie, Hayden, Gayle, will all be Premiership ready by the end of the season. 4) Rafa Benitez is in complete control of NUFC. This man has won the CL, knows the English, Spanish and Italian leagues inside out because of direct first hand recent experience, and should we get back into the Premiership could well have a significant transfer kitty to work with. So that's a widely recognized world class manager potentially capable of attracting players through reputation alone, having money to spend, in probably the most attractive league in the world to prospective talent, at a relatively well known Premiership club due to having frequently appeared in Europe, and with a large stadium. I'd be surprised if we didn't get at least a couple of genuine top quality players in who'll do well in his system in that scenario. I'm really not worried about next season at all with this squad and Rafa in charge. The only worry is getting back into the Premiership, especially through the automatic promotion slots. But I think if we add a couple of decent Championship calibre attacking players to the team whilst shifting those who want away (Tiote, Mitrovic), similar to what we did with Routledge/Harewood the last time we were here, we shouldn't have any problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Alot of hyperbole in here following a horrid performance. IMO we're about 4 good signings away from being a solid mid table Premiership side You're having a laugh, like. We need 4 defenders alone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemtizz Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 4 signings would be absurd. We need triple that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Its the hysterical emotive s*** that is absolutley appalling. It's childish as f***. But but, aren't we allowed to rip right into him? How long before we're allowed to call him fat, and Spanish? How long before we can comment on a minimum wage job which he may or not have had in the past? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altamullan Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 This is an 'interesting' read today... Really don't agree with/understand the 'Rafa changes things loads' (during matches) and 'he over prepares for the opposition' claims. My sense is he defaults to a 'let them worry about us' strategy. My personal frustration with this, is that this doesn't seem as flexible as I would like to see. And yes this includes wishing to see a more attacking formation from time to time; especially against more aggressive/physical sides who seem to easily snuff (stamp!) out our one striker outball. That said, I had a bit of an epiphany re this yesterday, and feel better than I did about what I was beginning to see as pig headedness. The basis of the 'let them worry about us' approach requires neatly fitting square pegs in square holes. It seems more reliant on players fit for the purpose of their allocated role. I think it needs this more so than a fluid, 'go out there and play' Keegan type approach, where as long as the player has some strengths/is good he can express them. In a Rafa team, they have to have the particular skill set, for that role. Versus Sheffield Wed (in general?) Colback, Gouffran, Diame (to name but three) are round pegs IMO. Perez ... god knows what shape he is, but it doesn't appear to be a neat fit in any hole. Plus others were a little off form/outplayed. Getting players to do what he wants/fit his positional responsibilities is key. So, he will build his squad. He knows what he is doing. Is it going to be frustrating at times: yes. Is it going to look overly safe, at times: yes. But then some knew this. Many never much liked his Liverpool style of play, but it was effective and he knows how to win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 FWIW, I think a lot of your fears aren't based in reality. Rafa's plan B won him the Champions League, man. He changes things up during matches a lot, it not always working isn't the same as him not changing anything. He did, but he had better players at his disposal then than he has now....some fans have built our squad up to be PL quality...and it is NOT. Players like Colback and Dummett, to name just 2, should not be in a PL squad. Good thing we're not in the Premier League then. Er - isn't that where we are trying to get to by any chance...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Heads in the sands we'll be promoted ffs. I don't care if we match or beat or points total or win the league - we'll just get the job done. People are right in the sense that we are a far cry from premier league mainstay quality but the man has made some savvy acquisitions, has the window coming up and the credentials/rationale to back his own decisions. Some of these comments smack of impatience. We were dumped here with good reason and this is very much a rebuild. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shintonsghost Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Interesting thoughts from fans, im trying not to panic. We are on track, like others im only bothered about going up, whichever way that is the end game.i dont agree with folk shooting down others who question Rafa, its like you are an idiot to question stuff. We play Forest on Friday then away to Blackburn, im uncomfortable about both games now, Rafa needs to get them up for Friday and we will be back on track if we win. The pack are closing, it will be just like us to fuck this up in the playoffs, its the way we roll. Im still with Rafa, but please dont castigate those that pull him up, he's not a genius is he? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Heads in the sands we'll be promoted ffs. I don't care if we match or beat or points total or win the league - we'll just get the job done. People are right in the sense that we are a far cry from premier league mainstay quality but the man has made some savvy acquisitions, has the window coming up and the credentials/rationale to back his own decisions. Some of these comments smack of impatience. We were dumped here with good reason and this is very much a rebuild. If we simply repeated what we have already done at this midway part of the season then we would still end up top finish or 2nd at a push.Of course it's nice to win the thing but I just want to get up first time of asking. I'm sort of more comforted that our points dropping at home is more down to our own tactical issues than genuine lack of quality ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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