Minhosa Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 I'll admit that if Dalian Atkinson carved 3 people up, I am fine with their utilization of the taser. America has changed you. He was a fucking unit Atkinson. If he was running through those coppers like he did the Man Utd defence that time, they'd have needed to Taser the fuck out of him just to slow him down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relámpago blanco Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Police officers now seem to go for the taser in situations like this more and more whereas in the past pepper spray would have been used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Coppers have been charged with murder and assault respectively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxst Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Coppers have been charged with murder and assault respectively. Disgusting decision. This country has gone to the dogs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Was underrated in his day, I think he’d be a top striker today. Very tragic story all-round. Not read the actual verdict documents so cant really comment, other than I don’t think using tasers is a good thing and I’m surprised there hasn’t been more similar outcomes. RIP Dalian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Coppers have been charged with murder and assault respectively. Disgusting decision. This country has gone to the dogs. I'm baffled by it. The Police are issued with tasers to protect themselves and members of the public. Unless it can be demonstrated that no-one was in any danger at all, I can't see how they can be accused of murder. It gives a very strange message to the Police who are currently expected to use them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Coppers have been charged with murder and assault respectively. Disgusting decision. This country has gone to the dogs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Coppers have been charged with murder and assault respectively. Disgusting decision. This country has gone to the dogs. I'm baffled by it. The Police are issued with tasers to protect themselves and members of the public. Unless it can be demonstrated that no-one was in any danger at all, I can't see how they can be accused of murder. It gives a very strange message to the Police who are currently expected to use them. The public don't know any of the details really, so it's impossible to draw any conclusions either way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 (edited) Just now, Disco said: Nice guys the police, so I'm told... Edited May 4, 2021 by neesy111 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timinperu Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, neesy111 said: Nice guys the police, so I'm told... Disgusting, the country has gone to the dogs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Appalling way to die. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 That makes grim reading, like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED209 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 What are the other facts of the case though? In isolation that sounds horrendous on behalf of the police however there is no context as to what kind of threat Atkinson posed. Kicking someone in the head and tasering someone repeatedly could be reasonable and lawful force in some circumstances of course on the other hand it might not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/live-updates-dalian-atkinson-murder-20519228 Quite a detailed account of the Prosecution opening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, ED209 said: What are the other facts of the case though? In isolation that sounds horrendous on behalf of the police however there is no context as to what kind of threat Atkinson posed. Kicking someone in the head and tasering someone repeatedly could be reasonable and lawful force in some circumstances of course on the other hand it might not. There's surely only a very, very limited number of situations where kicking someone in the head is a display of reasonable force? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 He was out cold and they beat him to death. Seems lawful to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED209 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, NEEJ said: There's surely only a very, very limited number of situations where kicking someone in the head is a display of reasonable force? The list of possible situations is endless however the threat towards the officers or the public or maybe even Atkinson would have to be high to justify it. Thing is on the basis of those tweets we don’t know what the threat was so we can’t judge. The police may be guilty or their actions may be justified we don’t know. My guess and only a guess is that Atkinson was probably is a state of what is known as excited delirium. People in this state are incredibly difficult to control and often display superhuman levels of strength. It can take many people or high levels of force to get them restrained and taser can be ineffective. Excited delirium can also result in people excepting themselves so much their heart simply gives up on them I am Sure the truth, whatever that is will come out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 13 minutes ago, ED209 said: What are the other facts of the case though? In isolation that sounds horrendous on behalf of the police however there is no context as to what kind of threat Atkinson posed. Kicking someone in the head and tasering someone repeatedly could be reasonable and lawful force in some circumstances of course on the other hand it might not. I get what you’re saying but there is no situation where kicking someone in the head is deemed lawful force. The taser, yeah, but there’s no approved techniques for kicking people in the head. I assume their defence will be his thrashing around caused contact with boots, which will be a poor/weak defence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 The whole thing seems unreal. Remember seeing this lad on the telly and what a sad and frankly disgusting way to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED209 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, Dokko said: He was out cold and they beat him to death. Seems lawful to me. How do you know this? Did you witness events? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED209 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Just now, Fantail Breeze said: I get what you’re saying but there is no situation where kicking someone in the head is deemed lawful force. The taser, yeah, but there’s no approved techniques for kicking people in the head. I assume their defence will be his thrashing around caused contact with boots, which will be a poor/weak defence. Absolutely any use of force can be lawful if it is reasonable in the circumstances at the time. what none of us know are the full circumstances Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, ED209 said: How do you know this? Did you witness events? You sound like a bent copper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Fantail Breeze said: I get what you’re saying but there is no situation where kicking someone in the head is deemed lawful force. The taser, yeah, but there’s no approved techniques for kicking people in the head. I assume their defence will be his thrashing around caused contact with boots, which will be a poor/weak defence. That is wrong, self defence is always a value judgment for a jury, it will depend on necessity and whether the force was reasonable and proportionate. It does not have to be an approved technique to be lawful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Just now, Shays Given Tim Flowers said: That is wrong, self defence is always a value judgment for a jury, it will depend on necessity and whether the force was reasonable and proportionate. It does not have to be an approved technique to be lawful. I can tell you now, there isn’t a jury in the world that we see the act of kicking someone in the head as reasonable nor proportionate in the act of a police officer. In order to kick someone in the head, they would either be on the floor or close to it. Therefore it’s unlikely they would be posing a significant threat to life at the point. Police are also unable to use their baton on someone’s head, for good reason, which is why a kick to the head will be seen in a similar way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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