Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[themanupstairs]

Tbf all I said is they don't have the talent to contend for a title, not top 4. Them finishing top 4 wouldn't surprise me.

 

But that isn't Klopp's fault and I doubt there's a manager alive who could make them title contenders with these players.

 

They have the talent, its just not being utilised correctly. They don't have the actual talent to win the league agreed, but to compete, I believe they do. It is indeed Klopp's fault because he has spent a huge wedge on basically staying still. the football is good though... until they run out of stamina, however.

 

They are kind of like Arsenal, too many samey samey players. Did they really need Oxlaide-Chamberlain? Salah even?

 

They needed to significantly strengthen their backbone. Their keepers, CB's (maybe apart from Matip), and central midfielders apart from Can aren't up to scratch. Jordan Henderson as captain of Liverpool makes me laugh every time.

[themanupstairs]

Tbf all I said is they don't have the talent to contend for a title, not top 4. Them finishing top 4 wouldn't surprise me.

 

But that isn't Klopp's fault and I doubt there's a manager alive who could make them title contenders with these players.

 

They have the talent, its just not being utilised correctly. They don't have the actual talent to win the league agreed, but to compete, I believe they do. It is indeed Klopp's fault because he has spent a huge wedge on basically staying still. the football is good though... until they run out of stamina, however.

 

They are kind of like Arsenal, too many samey samey players. Did they really need Oxlaide-Chamberlain? Salah even?

 

Salah is decent and done well for them, not sure spunking 40m on the Ox was wise. That money could have landed two quality defensive signings would have been better for them.

 

They should have paid 15m more and landed Keita now rather than wait for next season. He's exactly what they need in midfield.

[huss9]

could have had lejeune for less than 10m

[Nobody]

Klopp won back to back Bundesliga titles and tool Dortmund to a CL final. He's improved Liverpool massively since he took over as well compared to how they were post Suarez. Klopp is in the elite managers bracket, Liverpool won't realistically upgrade on him. If they do come in for Rafa, a straight swap will do for me, otherwise they can fuck off.

[Zero]

You have to understand Klopps tactics and the difference between the two leagues.  If Liverpool is playing in Bundesiga they should be champ already.  The style is completely different and there is a reason why Liverpool under klopp always able to beat top teams who play football on the floor but lose to shit teams which give up possession and just hoof the ball forward.

[U2]

You have to understand Klopps tactics and the difference between the two leagues.  If Liverpool is playing in Bundesiga they should be champ already.  The style is completely different and there is a reason why Liverpool under klopp always able to beat top teams who play football on the floor but lose to shit teams which give up possession and just hoof the ball forward.

 

So Klopp can't adapt his approach to different teams.  Klopp isn't a very good manager.

[Zero]

You can say so if your definition of very good manager should have bags of different tactics suitable for different types of players.  Klopp isn't.  In Dortmund he has Hummels and Subotic at their prime to support his ultra aggressive pressing, but now in Liverpool other than Matip all are not good enough to do the job.

 

[mrmojorisin75]

You have to understand Klopps tactics and the difference between the two leagues.  If Liverpool is playing in Bundesiga they should be champ already.  The style is completely different and there is a reason why Liverpool under klopp always able to beat top teams who play football on the floor but lose to shit teams which give up possession and just hoof the ball forward.

 

So Klopp can't adapt his approach to different teams.  Klopp isn't a very good manager.

This is my view. He doesn't have the quality of defender and midfielder he needs to support the attacking game he wants to play right now, the answer is not up keep doing it anyway and shipping loads of goals. The answer is to adjust and protect them better while still retaining an attacking edge.

 

He's a good manager but is currently showing signs of extreme stubbornness and inflexibility.

[Guest reefatoon]

This is one boring Klopp thread.

[Decky]

:smitten:

 

 

:clap:

[Tiresias]

(RE Klopp) I sometimes think that managers basically need a lot going for them beyond their control to win every game near enough to win a title. When managers are slightly off that pace when they are expected to win titles they get criticised as being not that good, but there are so many other factors and the margins so fine. He's a very good manager imo, with a bit of a blind spot for defending, but could Liverpool do better? Possibly, but who knows other manager may not get any more out the squad either? He does have a proven record, much more helpful than sacking him would probably be bringing in a superior defensive coach (and buying a defender) but most managers are such control freaks that they probably hate that.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Taking Liverpool to the title is almost impossible TBH. The only time they came close was when they stumbled on a superhuman player to carry them there.

[Guest neesy111]

Taking Liverpool to the title is almost impossible TBH. The only time they came close was when they stumbled on a superhuman player to carry them there.

 

If Leicester can do it, then Liverpool can with the right investment.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Taking Liverpool to the title is almost impossible TBH. The only time they came close was when they stumbled on a superhuman player to carry them there.

 

If Leicester can do it, then Liverpool can with the right investment.

 

With loads of investment of course, I was thinking with investment that's significantly lower than Chelsea and Man City.

[Nobody]

I really hope people are going to stop using Leicester as proof that "anyone can win it" soon. That was the biggest upset in the history of football, it's not going to be repeated any time soon.

[Mole_Toonfan]

I really hope people are going to stop using Leicester as proof that "anyone can win it" soon. That was the biggest upset in the history of football, it's not going to be repeated any time soon.

 

Not to mention the contenders are better now than they were that season.

 

The two are not comparable in the slightest.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Leicester were the exception that proved the rule. What they pulled off was nothing short of a miracle within a perfect storm. I don't think you can really use it as an example unless you're Mike Ashley.

[Nobody]

Leicester were the exception that proved the rule. What they pulled off was nothing short of a miracle within a perfect storm. I don't think you can really use it as an example unless you're Mike Ashley.

Surely Ashley does the complete opposite though?

[Scoot]

This is one boring Klopp thread.

 

Agree.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Leicester were the exception that proved the rule. What they pulled off was nothing short of a miracle within a perfect storm. I don't think you can really use it as an example unless you're Mike Ashley.

Surely Ashley does the complete opposite though?

 

'Leicester won without hardly spending anything, why can't you do that every year?' is more along the lines of what I was getting at.

[Nobody]

Leicester were the exception that proved the rule. What they pulled off was nothing short of a miracle within a perfect storm. I don't think you can really use it as an example unless you're Mike Ashley.

Surely Ashley does the complete opposite though?

 

'Leicester won without hardly spending anything, why can't you do that every year?' is more along the lines of what I was getting at.

Was thinking more that Ashley doesn't even care about anything and competing with the top.

[Disco]

[joeyt]

Aye just read that, really good stuff:

 

For a man who once described his seven-year Liverpool spell as “lots of ups and downs”, the 2005 Champions League final must have felt like a rollercoaster even for Djimi Traore. The left-back started on that famous evening against AC Milan, and it was his needless concession of a free-kick in the first minute which led to the Italian side’s opening goal. It was akin to heading into an uphill battle wearing a pair of roller skates with a boulder strapped to your back.

 

“The first half was a nightmare. At half-time I felt bad about how I had played,” Traore said ten years later, admitting Rafael Benitez had planned to substitute him. An injury to Steve Finnan was his only reprieve, a “second chance” that the Malian was “determined to take”. The Champions League winner’s medal sitting proudly in an otherwise sparse collection tells the rest of the story.

 

“Everybody brought something to the team that night,” he would add, in a quote that embodies Benitez’s management style more succinctly than any other. The Spaniard’s perennial mission is to create a whole greater than the sum of its parts; guiding Liverpool to European glory with Traore, Harry Kewell and Milan Baros in the starting line-up and Igor Biscan, Antonio Nunez and Josemi on the bench was his crowning glory.

 

Twelve years on, Benitez is aiming for a domestic encore. His Newcastle side are captained by a 23-year-old, have a central midfield pairing aged 21 and 22, and their starting striker was offloaded by Stoke in the summer after scoring four goals in 27 games. Jamaal Lascelles, Mikel Merino, Isaac Hayden and Joselu had made 40 Premier League appearances between them at the start of this season, and yet they form the unlikeliest of spines to the team currently in fourth.

 

In goal is Rob Elliot, who has made 44 league appearances for the club in six years. At right-back, Javier Manquillo crossed the Tyne-Wear divide to become Newcastle’s right-back after Sunderland’s relegation. Ciaran Clark, defensive partner to Lascelles and the only outfielder to play every minute so far, suffered the same fate with Aston Villa a year prior.

 

Newcastle outspent only six clubs this summer. Of the three promoted sides, Brighton and Huddersfield both spent more and signed more players. The Magpies added six to a Championship-level squad; the Seagulls and the Terriers brought in 10 and 13 respectively.

 

Yet this collection of Newcastle misfits currently forms the filling to a Chelsea and Tottenham sandwich. Only Leicester (41%) and West Brom (41.4%) have lower possession on average (41.6%) and no club completes fewer of their passes per game (68.9%), but Benitez is proving the power of coaching and a meticulous game plan over spending.

 

Had the Spaniard got his own way, he would have been able to strike more of a balance between the two. “As soon as the window closed we knew this was the group of players we have,” he said last week. “They know that they have to work hard because we can improve them individually or as a team.”

 

It was a risky public message to send, but three straight victories suggests, as is often the case with Benitez, the tactic was perfectly executed. Former scout Mauro Pederzoli, who worked with him in 2007, once said Benitez “doesn’t want headline-hogging players” but ones with “discipline”. Moussa Sissoko, Georginio Wijnaldum, Andros Townsend, Remy Cabella, Papiss Cisse and Florian Thauvin are all proof of the Spaniard’s exacting standards.

 

The recipe for top-flight survival has been passed down through generations. A club must have a blend of experience and youth in their squad, players with an understanding of the league are essential, and without a proven goalscorer, relegation is an inevitability. Benitez has defied the conventional wisdom, having named four of the seven youngest starting XIs in the Premier League this season. Only two Newcastle outfielders are over 30, and neither Jesus Gamez nor Mohamed Diame have played more than 90 minutes.

 

The season is but five games old, and one could argue that Newcastle’s fixture list has been kind. But the youngest, least established side who complete barely two-thirds of their passes, have just over two-fifths of possession and rely on youth instead of experience have scratched, clawed and fought their way up the table.

 

Benitez has been the key. Like the award-winning artist who is able to create a masterpiece with a pot of broken crayons and a pair of rusty scissors, he has shown his ability to excel in the face of adversity once more. Mike Ashley tried his best to handicap his manager, but it feels like the Spaniard could even make it work with Djimi Traore at left-back.

[themanupstairs]

Taking Liverpool to the title is almost impossible TBH. The only time they came close was when they stumbled on a superhuman player to carry them there.

 

If Leicester can do it, then Liverpool can with the right investment.

 

Leicester had a lot more balance to their main side than Liverpool do currently.

[Guest reefatoon]

shaddap about Liverpool in here man. there is more talk of that than the mighty Rafa. This thread should be about the godly one only.  f***ing Liverpool, Klopp and Leicester man. Take that talk to the nobody gives a fuck thread.  mmmmmm Rafa