magvicar Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: Even if you want to ignore what he's done elsewhere (presumably because it doesn't help your point, Kenedy's peak was with us under Rafa. It's an incredibly weak argument to be making like. This is what I'm saying. He was a revelation and Rafa decided to play him as wing back and focus on defensive work more as well as attacking. It didn't suit Kenedy and his game suffered because of it. Rafa bought in wingers and basically refused to play them much. He was far too defensive minded for me and the way I saw it was him going out to not lose rather than going out to actually get on the front foot and try to win games. If people saw it differently then that's their opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
magvicar Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: Aye...under Rafa, you're arguing against your own point. My point was Rafa taking away what he was best at and what he'd offered Rafa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ9 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Rafa haters can absolutely fuck off. Know-nowt twats who should have been chased along with Ashley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 I'm 99.9% sure Kenedy never played as a wing back. We didn't have the quality to allow for any passengers in our XI either, they were all extremely hard working and had to be Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRaspberryJam Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, magvicar said: This is what I'm saying. He was a revelation and Rafa decided to play him as wing back and focus on defensive work more as well as attacking. It didn't suit Kenedy and his game suffered because of it. Rafa bought in wingers and basically refused to play them much. He was far too defensive minded for me and the way I saw it was him going out to not lose rather than going out to actually get on the front foot and try to win games. If people saw it differently then that's their opinion. Murphy, Atsu, Almiron, Ritchie and Kenedy the only wingers he brought in? He played them all. Regularly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: I'm 99.9% sure Kenedy never played as a wing back. We didn't have the quality to allow for any passengers in our XI either, they were all extremely hard working and had to be He didn't Only covered at left back on four occasions for us. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/kenedy/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/281404/verein/762 Edited April 10, 2023 by KaKa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRaspberryJam Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Remember Kenedys rotten performance away to Cardiff? 0% pass completion rate and a missed penalty. "Decent". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 1 hour ago, magvicar said: Wasn't Staveley originally lurking around the Liverpool takeover before Newcastle? Staveley tried to buy Liverpool year and years ago, I think it was the late 2000’s. She failed in her attempts and the current owners went in to buy Liverpool. At the time she met and got on with Rafa. It has been rumoured and not dismissed that Rafa actually contacted her about investing in Newcastle, knowing that he would never get enough backing from Ashley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, magvicar said: How did he work wonders? He was offered a new contract but he wanted 6 million a year, unless that's not correct. He then chose to go to a Chinese club with a pretence that it was just the project he needed when it was plain to see it was the silly money on offer. I have zero time for him. This is Simon Jordon levels or rewriting of his time/ending at us. He was out of contract, he had been fucked about under Ashley time and time again and had no faith in him being backed again. As it happens Ashley backed Bruce the summer he left to counter balance how shit Bruce would be and to hope that sheer quality of 2 players which he took backhanders on would counterbalance Bruce’s shitness and lift us above Rafa’s finishes. Even considering that, Bruce only managed to finish as high as he did and not get is relegated because we played 1 and half seasons behind closed doors, and in one of those season most clubs couldn’t have given a fuck and were running the games out. It is no coincidence that as soon as fans were allowed back, Bruce was taking us down. As for not enjoying the football when he was here. I hear that all the time from the those who never liked him, they forget that fact that our previous managers who allegedly played more attacking football fucked us. Pardew after his usual good start had us fighting relegation for 2-3 years. Carver took us from mid table security in January, to a final day relegation showdown with Hull fucking City. McClaren finished the relegation job Carver and Pardew couldn’t finish. Whilst you lot were complaining about Rafa’s inability to be attacking front footed, Conte won Chelsea a title, and Mourinho got one of Man Utd’s shittest ever sides since they were relegated in the 70’s a 2nd place finish playing in a similar way Rafa’s pragmatic approach. Edited April 10, 2023 by Stifler Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlies Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 So much eye aids in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycap Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 I've got no problem with people disliking benitez but don't talk a load of shit to prove your point. I still reckon it's because he's a foreigner, look at keys et Al they hate the huggable little bugger ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 I remember that time Rafa said he hated @AJ9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon_Geordie Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Rafa was great, a tiny glimmer of hope in a giant pot of piss. A little defensive but worked wonders most the time he was here. Cant knock the bloke. But happier with Howe and the way he plays, less politics too. Onwards and upwards! Also cant underestimate the role Rafa had in bringing the new owners to the table, if the tales are true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Away Toon Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 The problem with Rafa is simple in that he wants a project with him being in control of all transfers and being the de facto sporting director. Clubs no longer want to do this as when it all goes to shit there’s nothing left to build on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidAK Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 I watched most of our games under Rafa. The idea that the football was "soul destroying" is complete bullshit. It was pragmatic and well organised and frankly massively fucking refreshing after McClaren. We went into every game looking like we had a plan, it was great. You don't have to be playing free-flowing tiki-taka to be an enjoyable watch, and defensively sound =/= shit. It's revisionist history. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 (edited) Kenedy had some decent games but his performance overall wasn't particularly good. And it definitely felt at the time it was the best he'd performed in any season since he first joined Chelsea. He was hardly some amazing asset that was poorly done by. He was afforded many chances. The fact we're even talking about Kenedy kind of proves the point to me. Some distinctly average loanee with no proven history. We spent what we'd gained in sales, of course we absolutely couldnt dream of spending more, and there was one flop in Muto but what kind of striker would you expect for 9.5m even back then. Rondon was a great loan. The second half of that season we were mint and ripe for kicking on, but of course that was never going to be entertained by Fat cunt. Rafa wasn't asking for much and he was offered even less, any kind of manager worth their salt would have walked away from the situation. Frustrating as fuck too because in 19/20 so many other PL teams were bang average and had we continued on the path we'd ended the previous season we'd have looked really good. But instead we completely under performed with a league position gifted to us. To deny Rafa the praise he rightly deserves for his time here is mental to me and any argument to the counter is completely ignoring vast swathes of context. Edited April 10, 2023 by Super Duper Branko Strupar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleBingo Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, LiquidAK said: I watched most of our games under Rafa. The idea that the football was "soul destroying" is complete bullshit. It was pragmatic and well organised and frankly massively fucking refreshing after McClaren. We went into every game looking like we had a plan, it was great. You don't have to be playing free-flowing tiki-taka to be an enjoyable watch, and defensively sound =/= shit. It's revisionist history. 100% this. People also forget that we were very decent to watch once he was allowed to spend some decent money on Almiron. We were definitely on an upward trajectory under him as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgk_lfc Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Away Toon said: The problem with Rafa is simple in that he wants a project with him being in control of all transfers and being the de facto sporting director. Clubs no longer want to do this as when it all goes to shit there’s nothing left to build on. Love Rafa the manager and respect Rafa the person even more. But this is an important aspect that is going to deny him jobs. Everywhere he goes he demands 100% control. Even if signs the contract to a club with a DOF, within six months it becomes either back him or back me. And more than often, this gets played out in the press, and one of them has to leave. This happens almost everywhere he goes including Everton. I am betting this is an important reason why someone like Marsch is getting more interviews than him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Rafa single-handedly made me properly appreciate and then eventually enjoy watching defending. Something that I thought would be impossible for the previous 20ish years of watching football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubaricho Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 9 minutes ago, rgk_lfc said: Love Rafa the manager and respect Rafa the person even more. But this is an important aspect that is going to deny him jobs. Everywhere he goes he demands 100% control. Even if signs the contract to a club with a DOF, within six months it becomes either back him or back me. And more than often, this gets played out in the press, and one of them has to leave. This happens almost everywhere he goes including Everton. I am betting this is an important reason why someone like Marsch is getting more interviews than him. This is especially pertinent in this day and age too with how clubs are being run. It’s not the 00s anymore. Clubs have moved on from the SAF type of managers of which Rafa is in the same mould. It’s now a full team of highly trained and specialized people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danh1 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 58 minutes ago, cubaricho said: This is especially pertinent in this day and age too with how clubs are being run. It’s not the 00s anymore. Clubs have moved on from the SAF type of managers of which Rafa is in the same mould. It’s now a full team of highly trained and specialized people. Makes me wonder if Rafa is definitely who we would have went for had he been available after the takeover. Ashworth wouldn’t be here if Rafa was you’d think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 4 hours ago, rgk_lfc said: Love Rafa the manager and respect Rafa the person even more. But this is an important aspect that is going to deny him jobs. Everywhere he goes he demands 100% control. Even if signs the contract to a club with a DOF, within six months it becomes either back him or back me. And more than often, this gets played out in the press, and one of them has to leave. This happens almost everywhere he goes including Everton. I am betting this is an important reason why someone like Marsch is getting more interviews than him. Most club owners are clearly complete morons then, IMO. Looking at Rafa's record of not only finding great value in the market, but also managing to get the best out of pretty mediocre players, I don't see why you wouldn't afford him the opportunity to just get on with things. He's one of the few that actually can handle that level of control and do well with it. Just let him bring in his own recruitment people that he wants to work closely with and get out of his way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 10 hours ago, magvicar said: We all have our opinions and I respect yours but I simply did not enjoy his time at Newcastle and I was genuinely happy to see him leave. I'm not too sure about what you mean in him contacting Staveley. Did that happiness increase or decrease once Steve Bruce was appointed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 9 hours ago, magvicar said: Look at the money he spent for the time he was here. It was a decent amount and he could've done much better if he used players better and bought better. Let's look at his final season with us and see what players he had at his disposal. We had some decent players at the time which weren't properly used in my opinion. He had a net spend of minus £11m you absolute weapon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 I get people have opinions and all that but quite frankly any Newcastle fan that has any ill will or negative feelings towards Rafa is quite frankly a doylem What he's done since in terms of jobs is irrelevant, he can get another 5 jobs and do shite in all of them and I would still adore the guy as it doesn't change what he did for us I could write paragraph after paragraph but to keep it short I would describe his time here as he was sent to a sword fight but only given a toothpick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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