Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[Jonas]

3 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

At least there was a tactic.

 

We nearly got a result in that game n'all. Given we had Elliot, Dummett, Manquillo, Aarons and Joselu in the side, maybe we should've been more gung ho.

Beat them and drew with them (unlucky not to win) in the other games at home to Man City. With that team.

 

 

Edited April 1 by Jonas

[nemtizz]

Watching football with your eyes seems to be a lost art.

 

Either that or it's Alex in disguise.

[Theregulars]

10 hours ago, BUJ said:

Statistically I'm correct in my analysis. 

 

Bot turned out turgid dogshit football. Rafa v City when e threw in the towel at the first whistle was the most disgusting tactic I've ever seen. 

You are of course right, these tactics against the same opposition were far better: 

 

Statistically you have dildos for hands 

[andycap]

I liked our football under benitez we never looked disorganised our defenders could actually defend and I never worried when we used to see out games. 

Still our best tactician if you ask me out of all the managers we've had. 

Soon as we started adding a bit of quality too the side you could see the improvement. Just wish he got the 100m to spend not the pigeon lady. 

[TRon]

5 minutes ago, andycap said:

I liked our football under benitez we never looked disorganised our defenders could actually defend and I never worried when we used to see out games. 

Still our best tactician if you ask me out of all the managers we've had. 

Soon as we started adding a bit of quality too the side you could see the improvement. Just wish he got the 100m to spend not the pigeon lady. 

 

Was going to argue about the best tactician part, but there's a good argument for it tbf. His methods are best suited to cup KO competitions, too many draws likely for a league format, but he did know how to set his side out perfectly for what he was trying to do. If he had quality across the pitch to work with it would look pretty formidable.

[Kid Icarus]

Rafa Benitez net spend: ~£3.65m

Steve Bruce net spend: ~£125m

 

I'm not a mathematician so can someone please help me work out who did better with the resources they had?

 

 

Edited April 2 by Kid Icarus

[Theregulars]

58 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Rafa Benitez net spend: ~£3.65m

Steve Bruce net spend: ~£125m

 

I'm not a mathematician so can someone please help me work out who did better with the resources they had?

 

 

 

But is your analysis correct statistically

[mondonewc]

Maybe I'm wrong but don't think @BUJintention is to be a wind-up merchant, so think it's a bit over the top for 20+ people to be so heavy handed in their response. Regards the statistic point I assume he was referring to this stat for their respective first 50 PL games each:
 

Steve Bruce – 16 wins, 13 draws and 21 losses
Rafa Benitez – 15 wins, 13 draws and 22 losses

You can add caveats to negate this, but his point about comparing their stats is true, and people manipulate stats to make their own point every minute of every day, so he's factually correct regards that.

 

The other point he made, for me, is a completely wild take, but to be honest, for me it's not as wild as Yorkie's post saying he has more affection for Benitez than Howe, I think that's nuts, but didn't see any reason to comment on it, it's his opinion, and whilst it's mindblowing to me, he's obviously entitled to have a completely different opinion to me. 

 

Regards Benitez, I never had anywhere near as much love for him as most other fans did, for one the style of play was awful, but mostly I felt he was a master with the media and manipulating fans by saying the right things at the right times to keep them onside, something Bruce was abysmal at, but I never felt Benitez was 100% genuine in his love for us and the club. I could be way off the mark there, feel free to berate me if you wish, but preferrably just two or three of yous, not twenty please 

[Robster]

BUJ thinks they are being zany and funny. Internet/Forum trolling is not zany and is not funny in the slightest. It's pitiful.

[Tiresias]

I love a good stat as much as the next man, but i still fucking trust my eyes. Forgetting the getting us up from the championship first attempt (by no means guaranteed, plenty clubs have sunk), but once he worked out his team that 3-4-3 with lejeune, lascelles schar at the back we were playing good stuff. After a tough first half of the season second half things had begun to click. I'm not going to engage overly with the troll, but the Rafa years were so much better than what was to follow, pull as many stats as you want, I watched those games and i watched us under bruce, I can tell the fucking difference.

[Optimistic Nut]

1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said:

Rafa Benitez net spend: ~£3.65m

Steve Bruce net spend: ~£125m

 

I'm not a mathematician so can someone please help me work out who did better with the resources they had?

 

 

 

 

The first one inherited a Championship bound team and turned it into a mid-table PL team on a shoestring. 

 

The other took over a comfortable mid-table PL team, spent a fair bit, and was taking us back into a Championship bound team. 

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

16 minutes ago, mondonewc said:

I never felt Benitez was 100% genuine in his love for us and the club. I could be way off the mark there, feel free to berate me if you wish, but preferrably just two or three of yous, not twenty please 

Even when he stayed post relegation? Just cannot agree. 

[mondonewc]

53 minutes ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

Even when he stayed post relegation? Just cannot agree. 

My memory is pretty hazy but if I remember rightly there was a prolonged uncertainty on whether he would stay or not and I also don't remember him turning down any great offers to stay, maybe I'm wrong though?

 

Another reason for my doubt was his relationship with Liverpool and how much he loved them, but yeah I'm biased negatively for sure as just didn't see it the same way as others did with him. I also didn't like the narrative of how much of a favour he was doing us and how lucky we were to have him as our manager, even if there was some truth to that given our status at the time.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I loved Rafa but, like anything in that era, it was just a sticking plaster over a fatal wound and Mike Ashley would always mess it up eventually. 

[Theregulars]

It’s pretty simple. Without Rafa, we aren’t what we are now. He almost single-handedly demonstrated what had been forgotten under the parasite Ashley: Newcastle can move quickly and successfully when the city and fans are united and believe in what they see.

The Bruce shit is irksome AF because it’s a regurgitation of a xenophobic media line, and ignores the quite salient fact that the “statistically similar” season was achieved with Benitez’s players + some better players than Benitez ever would have received under Ashley. Joselu or Wilson? Pre-Howe Murphy or ASM? 

 

[Yorkie]

1 hour ago, mondonewc said:

The other point he made, for me, is a completely wild take, but to be honest, for me it's not as wild as Yorkie's post saying he has more affection for Benitez than Howe, I think that's nuts, but didn't see any reason to comment on it, it's his opinion, and whilst it's mindblowing to me, he's obviously entitled to have a completely different opinion to me. 

 

The difference there is I'm comparing how I feel about two people. Howe is obviously more successful than Rafa, to suggest otherwise would be lunacy. The poster has been 'piled on' because they're comparing the actual impact of two people and suggesting it was identical which, to any sane observer, is nonsense.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

51 minutes ago, mondonewc said:

My memory is pretty hazy but if I remember rightly there was a prolonged uncertainty on whether he would stay or not and I also don't remember him turning down any great offers to stay, maybe I'm wrong though?

 

Another reason for my doubt was his relationship with Liverpool and how much he loved them, but yeah I'm biased negatively for sure as just didn't see it the same way as others did with him. I also didn't like the narrative of how much of a favour he was doing us and how lucky we were to have him as our manager, even if there was some truth to that given our status at the time.

I don’t recall any significant delay but not sure on my recall. He hadn’t managed in the second tier since the year 2000 and had most recently been at Real Madrid before ourselves. I think it’s harsh to say some truth, it seems to be plenty of truth that we were lucky to have him. 

 

Keep in mind as well he would have been negotiating with Ashley and doubtless he wanted to wrest as much power as he could away from the clubs hierarchy. 
 

By the end of the championship season he had the players highly organised. The structures put in place were an excellent foundation for whoever came in after him and it took a while for the defensive solidity to wear off.

 

Then there’s the stuff to do with being responsible in part for bringing the Saudi’s/Staveley in. I have no doubt that if the takeover had gone through sooner he would have remained in post. 

 

 

Edited April 2 by Shays Given Tim Flowers

[Yorkie]

He signed a three-year contract ten days after that Spurs game. 

[Ronaldo]

1 hour ago, mondonewc said:

Maybe I'm wrong but don't think @BUJintention is to be a wind-up merchant, so think it's a bit over the top for 20+ people to be so heavy handed in their response. Regards the statistic point I assume he was referring to this stat for their respective first 50 PL games each:
 

Steve Bruce – 16 wins, 13 draws and 21 losses
Rafa Benitez – 15 wins, 13 draws and 22 losses

You can add caveats to negate this, but his point about comparing their stats is true, and people manipulate stats to make their own point every minute of every day, so he's factually correct regards that.

 

The other point he made, for me, is a completely wild take, but to be honest, for me it's not as wild as Yorkie's post saying he has more affection for Benitez than Howe, I think that's nuts, but didn't see any reason to comment on it, it's his opinion, and whilst it's mindblowing to me, he's obviously entitled to have a completely different opinion to me. 

 

Regards Benitez, I never had anywhere near as much love for him as most other fans did, for one the style of play was awful, but mostly I felt he was a master with the media and manipulating fans by saying the right things at the right times to keep them onside, something Bruce was abysmal at, but I never felt Benitez was 100% genuine in his love for us and the club. I could be way off the mark there, feel free to berate me if you wish, but preferrably just two or three of yous, not twenty please 

I’m really not sure how putting pressure on the owner via the media to invest in the club is manipulating the fans, mind. It’s what any ambitious, hugely successful manager would do. 

[Superior Acuña]

Also look at his lovely face 

 

[mondonewc]

28 minutes ago, Ronaldo said:

I’m really not sure how putting pressure on the owner via the media to invest in the club is manipulating the fans, mind. It’s what any ambitious, hugely successful manager would do. 

Your putting words in my mouth there to be fair since I didn't make any specific reference to that, and for sure I could find examples to illustrate my point but don't really have any desire to do so.

[mondonewc]

38 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

The difference there is I'm comparing how I feel about two people. Howe is obviously more successful than Rafa, to suggest otherwise would be lunacy. The poster has been 'piled on' because they're comparing the actual impact of two people and suggesting it was identical which, to any sane observer, is nonsense.

Yeah that's fair enough and obviously the difference is clear between both your comments, I was just making a point, and as I said I'm not a fan of pilling on someone for an opinion they hold unless its warranted in extreme circumstances and has a purpose rather than just jumping on, not liking Benitez certainly doesnt fit that for me.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

I think Rafa is totally genuine in that he allows himself to be immersed in a region and a fan base. He absolutely plays the game with the media and with owners but that's professional and not personal.

 

[Kanj]

Rafa's final season, the style was starting to come together with that strong 3-man CB trio of Lejeune, Schar and Lascelles. Wing-backs providing defensive cover, width etc. 2 CMs who were box to box. And a dynamic front 3 where we had Rondon as the focal point, Ayoze as a wide forward and the LW was a hybrid 10/winger.  It was looking exciting with Almiron as that LW too. 

[andycap]

I thought he was waiting on a contract extension that Ashley had no intention of giving him. 

He wanted us to buy rondon but Ashley thought differently so was at a standstill where he wanted to stay but wanted assurances of funding. 

Ashley couldn't care less so benitez left. 

Then all you get is the he went for money brigade 😂