Wullie Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 It can't be fixed. Football is too fluid for it to ever work satisfactorily. And frankly even if it worked perfectly 100% of the time, it would still make the game worse. Checking every goal after it's been scored and after the crowd have reacted to it is rapidly changing the very nature of the experience that is the most popular sport in the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonArmy1892 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 The conspiracy theorist in me is saying they are deliberately making it s*** so they can f*** it off (oh well we tried it). How can they ignore blatant shirt pulls? Why hasn't one referee gone to the camera at the side of the pitch? It's all weird as f***. VAR isn't bad, it's needed, but they seem to be making it look s*** on purpose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbnufc Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Exclusive: Premier League to debate radical changes to VAR including giving managers the right to appeal Premier League clubs will discuss whether managers should be allowed to appeal a refereeing decision during a game in a potentially radical change to how the video assistant referees are used. At a meeting of the 20 clubs next week, the idea of allowing managers a set number of appeals – as takes place in other sports, such as cricket – will be put forward. One chairman told Telegraph Sport that he would be in favour of each team being given up to three appeals over contentious incidents during a game. However, the Premier League will strongly argue against it – claiming it will lead to time-wasting and tactical appeals by managers to break up play and run down the clock. Nevertheless, clubs say there will be a “robust” discussion on the failings of VAR. Although there is an implied threat that some might even call for the suspension of the system, it appears the majority want to give it more time to be improved before moving towards that dramatic course of action. They are, however, demanding answers with a rising sense of frustration at the way VAR is being used and the potential damage and embarrassment it is causing the Premier League. Some have already written to the Premier League with their concerns. Telegraph Sport has canvassed the opinion of several chairmen and one even suggested it should be suspended immediately, until it could be perfected, for all decisions barring offside. “It is working for offside. I’m not sure it is working for anything else,” he said. Another chairman said there would be a “robust” discussion, with questions being asked of Mike Riley, the general manager of the Professional Game Match Officials Limited, who will deliver a presentation. A third chairman said that he would be asking whether the Premier League was employing enough competent personnel to use VAR. “We want to know why it is being implemented better in other leagues. Is it a personnel issue?” he said. The Premier League is not against a change in its approach and will be guided by the clubs, although there is not expected to be a vote on suspending VAR. Instead, there is due to be a change in the guidelines with, for example, pitchside monitors finally being used. The guidance, which the Premier League points out was agreed with the clubs at the beginning of the season, was for the monitors to be used “sparingly” to try to minimise delays. Specifically, this meant in two kinds of incidents – an unseen one, such as a player elbowing an opponent off the ball, and where the video official and the referee disagree as to what has happened. In 110 matches, the pitchside monitors have not been used, but the Premier League accepts that if the clubs want a change it will happen, and not least from a public relations point of view to appease angry fans. At the meeting, the Premier League will canvas opinion on what other changes are wanted, such as replaying incidents referred to VAR on screens for fans to see. The Premier League will also hold a meeting in Manchester on Thursday for the northern-based managers to discuss VAR. There was a meeting last week at Stockley Park, where the VARs are based, for the southern-based managers. Ten managers attended. Dean Smith, the Aston Villa manager, attended the meeting last Thursday and said: “[After the meetings] the CEOs and the Premier League will get together and decide where they’re taking it. You can’t scrap it now, there’s 28 countries using it. We all wanted it to find the right decisions, but there was always going to be teething problems and we’ve found them.” One of the managers invited to attend in Manchester is Liverpool’s Jurgen Klopp. “I think you all expect a proper improvement from VAR and that is possible,” he said. “You expect a couple of problems in the beginning. It was difficult as well in Germany and it got better. They do things differently. There were some moments – clear offside, handball and that stuff – and that is what we wanted it for. Now I think we discuss referees decisions more. We have to improve that. A lot of meetings will happen. As long as we can help we will try.” Chelsea’s Frank Lampard was among those who attended the meeting last week and he was asked whether he would be in favour of getting rid of VAR. “I would work with it at the moment and see where we can improve,” he said. “It needs to be a really open conversation, referees, managers fans, whatever. “I know there are so many opinions; it’s not easy. The clinical decisions are an improvement … the clinical nature of offside and goal-line technology is positive. It’s the subjective ones that we really need to decide where we are coming from with this idea of ‘clear and obvious’ because at the weekend there were a lot of non-clear and obvious and some were overturned and others weren’t.” On pitchside monitors, Lampard added: “The reading at the beginning was that it was going to be used sparingly, I think. And it hasn’t been used sparingly. It’s been used not at all. I do think that’s probably one thing we could look at.” https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/11/04/premier-league-debate-radical-changes-var-including-giving-managers/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Manager appeals would make it even worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 So Firmino's armpit was offside? Seems a strange explanation given that the chest is generally further forward than the armpit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 VAR becoming more of a joke by the day Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 VAR becoming more of a joke by the day That one had nothing to do with VAR though, did it? Other than the fact they should actually have used it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Surely VAR should have overruled it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Surely VAR should have overruled it? Well, yes, in that sense I can see how it’s culpable. Although Clattenburg did an interview with Craig Hope in the Mail insisting it was the correct decision according to the rules. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Edgar Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 I thought it was VAR that gave the red card, overruling the referee who had initially given a yellow? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Looked like that initially, turned out Atkinson just changed his mind having seen the injury. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribesman Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 The biggest problem I have with VAR is that nobody knows why a decision has been made. In rugby and yes I know people are tired of the comparisons with rugby, but at least the players, managers and fans in the stadium or watching on tv know why the officials have come to their decision. Referees in football are protected too much in football and need to be held to account for their decisions. That said I would get rid of VAR now. It was meant to fix clear and obvious errors yet its failing badly at this job. I'm all for more technology to improve the game, but VAR is not taking the game forward. I don't buy the notion that things were fine before VAR was involved, the officials need help we just need to find more practical solutions. I'm curious to know if VAR is having the same issues in other leagues like in the Premier League. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Looked like that initially, turned out Atkinson just changed his mind having seen the injury. Exactly. Ref looks over and sees his foot hanging off and thinks “oh fuck, it must have been a shocker and I’ve missed it. I know I’ll red the dirty cunt, he must have smashed him” Stupid mistake but I can sort of understand why he did it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 It makes a mockery of the whole system if using VAR is meant to lead to the correct decision which on Sunday it determined that the Son red was the correct call only for 2 days later for it to be overturned. Cost Spurs a valuable 2 points Similar to the David Silva goal last week. VAR said he didn't touch the ball so the goal wasn't offside only for the Premier League Goals Panel to award him the goal so it should have been offside. I knew VAR was going to be terrible but I didn;t think it was going to be this comical Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 it seems to be used to defend every decision on the field (mostly anyway) and the refs were always right and we must trust VAR as its fool proof except for the fools operating it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odear Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 VAR isn’t the issue in as much as general poor refereeing is. The problem is that none of them want to overrule their mates. If VAR is to work, it should be an independent panel of referees outside of the Football Association. People that have no connection with the referees or linespeople on the pitch. The offside thing could be easily fixed. Just put a threshold of a few millimetres to favour an attacker. The tech should be there for blatant mistakes, not nit picking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 VAR isn’t the issue in as much as general poor refereeing is. The problem is that none of them want to overrule their mates. If VAR is to work, it should be an independent panel of referees outside of the Football Association. People that have no connection with the referees or linespeople on the pitch. The offside thing could be easily fixed. Just put a threshold of a few millimetres to favour an attacker. The tech should be there for blatant mistakes, not nit picking. So simple yet brilliant. Well put. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 But even with an offside threshold, you’d need to measure whether it’s in or out of the threshold? So there would still be a line somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 But even with an offside threshold, you’d need to measure whether it’s in or out of the threshold? So there would still be a line somewhere. But the current threshold they use takes away the competition for the advantage. Measuring an attacker's shoulder as offside when their feet are level or even on, is absurd. Yes, there has to be a line somewhere, but moving the line back allows for greater freedom. It's hard, though. You could say offside is if your feet are offside, but then you could score a header, you feet be onside but your head off. Maybe literally the players centre point... That's the problem with VAR for offsides, though. Offside has always been a good chunk of opinion over literal measurement. We're now trying to apply a very strict determination on something that has historically been shades of grey. Changes everything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebellious Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 But even with an offside threshold, you’d need to measure whether it’s in or out of the threshold? So there would still be a line somewhere. But the current threshold they use takes away the competition for the advantage. Measuring an attacker's shoulder as offside when their feet are level or even on, is absurd. Yes, there has to be a line somewhere, but moving the line back allows for greater freedom. It's hard, though. You could say offside is if your feet are offside, but then you could score a header, you feet be onside but your head off. Maybe literally the players centre point... That's the problem with VAR for offsides, though. Offside has always been a good chunk of opinion over literal measurement. We're now trying to apply a very strict determination on something that has historically been shades of grey. Changes everything. Maybe if your feet are onside and head offside, you score with your feet it should stand because your head hasn`t given you an advantage, or armpit in this case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 Wullie nearly describing the Liverpool goal perfectly: Scenario: Blue defender handles the ball accidentally in his own penalty area, clearly not a penalty, arms by his side, whatever. He immediately boots the ball downfield to his striker, who scores. The original handball in his own box is now an offence because of the goal. Is it a) a penalty to Red, b) an indirect free kick in the Blue box to Red or c) nobody knows because IFAB haven't thought their daft rule change through? Lack of consistency is comical Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbnufc Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 "They have said the arm was not in an unnatural position" Even twisted his palm towards the ball like a GK making a save. wtf are they looking at, man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 Is it any wonder we're fucking this up, i mean Mike Reilly one of the worst refs we've ever had, he's in charge of this mess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 Is it any wonder we're fucking this up, i mean Mike Reilly one of the worst refs we've ever had, he's in charge of this mess. Mark Halsey basically blamed him earlier on twitter without naming him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 Is it any wonder we're fucking this up, i mean Mike Reilly one of the worst refs we've ever had, he's in charge of this mess. Mark Halsey basically blamed him earlier on twitter without naming him. Halsey should have just said it, it's not like it would have been a surprise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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