Liverpool 2 - 0 Newcastle United - 03/03/18 - Post-match reaction from page 11

[Guest]

The Mo Salah song is the greatest chant ever btw.

[Dave]

MOTD didn't even show the earlier Lascelles foul on Salah.

[mighty__mag]

Merino on the second goal. chasing back with no effort at all

[jollof rice and pea]

"You must be loving it!" Pearce is such a weirdo

[Mistle17]

Don't know why people get so wound up by Crumpy. I don't agree with his opinions on Rafa at all but bloody hell some people need to relax.

[Dave]

Ian Wright: 'I don't expect more from Newcastle. They need to get more men forward.'

[Heron]

For me this was the game where we have looked least likely to score and most outclassed this season.

 

They're intensity, pace and pressure was through the roof and they were clearly up for it. They'd have beaten anyone outside the top 6 today undoubtedly and many of which by more.

 

Liverpool have that in their locker, real quality and athleticism. However, they don't have other options or quite as much quality as Shiteh and hence the league positions. Add a few more top draw defenders to their squad and maybe something different up top as a big man and they'd have everything they need to push Man City for the title.

 

We looked incapable of creating a chance today and we did more even against them (city).

 

The same argument is coming out from what I have read from mates about we didn't have a go. We couldn't have today, if we had I feel we would have been slaughtered. Such rigidity as Rafa's tactics cannot be met with fierce fluidity unless they match quality. We beat Man United cause we were up for it more than them and they lacked fluidity.

 

We may stay in this division via goal difference and that is looking increasingly likely. A part of me really hopes we do.

[quayside]

Don't know why people get so wound up by Crumpy. I don't agree with his opinions on Rafa at all but bloody hell some people need to relax.

 

Was seriously wound up - less so now 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

People attacking his business as well is not on. He says it how it is and it’s not like he hasn’t said anything outrageous, we were garbage. Mind I’d didn’t think much of Liverpool for large periods either. A poor game overall.

[Vinny Green Balls]

People attacking his business as well is not on. He says it how it is and it’s not like he hasn’t said anything outrageous, we were garbage. Mind I’d didn’t think much of Liverpool for large periods either. A poor game overall.

 

FFS

[Sean]

Random observation and not just about today but I now don't get nervous at all when we concede a corner. Such a strange feeling after years of dreading them. Would be interesting to see total corners against compared to goals conceded from them under different managers. Shows the value of good coaching.

[Cheshire Mag]

We were never in a million years going to get something from this one. To keep it down to 2 goals against is good for us. As long as we get positive results against Southampton and Huddersfield at home we will be fine

[Mr Logic]

Thought this Douglas article from the Chronic was canny.

 

It seems like a relic from a bygone era but there was a time when putting a number next to a professional footballer’s performance was one of the most treacherous tasks for a football reporter.

 

Merit marks were the bane of local reporter’s lives: the one thing guaranteed to provoke a response and prompt trouble. The difference between doling out a five and a seven was enough to go from a footballer being happy to talk to you in a mixed zone to them blanking you for weeks on end.

 

The chilling effect of this on cub reporters was that you learned to mitigate the really harsh criticism for when it felt really deserved. A 2-0 defeat at Liverpool, for example, was not the time to liberally sprinkle the 2, 3 or 4/10s. Not when you knew that you’d have to justify those marks to an angry player a few days later.

 

No doubt in a media ecosystem now dominated by the instant release of Twitter, where post-match venting sometimes represents the extremes of opinion, this might be viewed with suspicion. What’s wrong with saying what you really think, after all?

 

Well, nothing. But a fairly decent rule is that you take a deep breath before attempting to commit your analyse to the keyboard. If you know you’ve got to justify it to the people you’re going to speak it, it offers a fairly decent insurance policy against going too far. And I think that’s a reporter’s job: to offer a balanced critique that stands the test of time, rather than some knee-jerk reaction that, on a Monday morning following a Saturday game, might look as if you’ve been swept along by the tide of public opinion.

 

It might seem fairly quaint, but I’d say in ten years on Tyneside the number of times I’ve labelled an individual’s performance – or a team one for that matter – as “embarrassing” would be fairly limited. It feels like the sort of adjective you’d only apply when someone really plumbs the depths – not when they’ve been found wanting against a better opponent or a superior side.

 

Yet it 2018 the game has changed. Football is now played out against the backdrop of pundits who have played the game at the very top level and now feel liberated to use the sort of language which swipes headlines and garners them attention.

 

To this observer, Saturday’s Newcastle performance was a 5/10. You could see what they were trying to do and for 40 minutes they did it. After conceding the goal, United’s reticent to go forward was perhaps explained by the limited resources at Rafa Benitez’s disposal. In short, it was nothing to shout about. The context: Newcastle’s steady decline under the ownership of Mike Ashley.

 

Newcastle fans, by and large, know that. It’s why Benitez’s name was sung by the away end and why the vast majority of supporters stick with him and recognise that his tactical plans are informed by the club’s desperate need to survive in a division they look barely equipped to play it.

 

So it was a slight surprise to hear Steven Gerrard label Newcastle’s midfield “embarrassing”. It’s not the first time the word has been used this season: Gary Neville reckoned United’s tactics against Manchester City were “embarrassing”. But was it really justified in the context of what United were trying to do?

 

It sparked a debate: just as Jermaine Jenas’ recollections of his time at Newcastle did, or Frank Lampard’s critique of Jonjo Shelvey’s final ten minutes at Bournemouth did. Both were absorbing, just as Neville and Gerrard were, but there’s no doubt they were prepared to go further and use more potentially incendiary language than those who watch United every single week would about matters Newcastle.

 

It’s a far cry from the days of staid punditry where the ambition was to do no more than just describe the action in front of us. Jamie Carragher, Neville, Lampard and Gerrard are compelling to listen to partly because they are prepared to push the envelope and it has changed the boundaries of how we view football.

 

It used to be that ex-footballers would cushion their blows. It feels a long time ago that Alan Shearer was accused of holding back his criticism because he knew too many of the people he was analysing.

 

Now it’s perfectly acceptable for Neville to call Arsenal’s players “spineless” and to demand better, just as Carragher’s eviscerating critique of Newcastle’s management – he called their transfer window a “shambles” – does not feel particularly out of place.

 

You can see why it’s happening. Between them Sky and BT pay a combined £5.14billion to televise Premier League football and when the matches aren’t up to it, they need something else to persuade us that their product is worth paying for. With this new generation of pundit prepared to push the boundaries, they have it. Time and time again this season the back pages have been dominated not necessarily by what happened in the match but by what was said after it.

 

Jenas’ comments about the Newcastle team he played for were getting more attention than the Liverpool game yesterday. Neville and Carragher’s analysis of the Manchester City home game continues to be a bone of contention on Tyneside – both among supporters and a squad, who felt they went too far.

 

Benitez maintains his counsel but among Premier League managers, the feeling is that many of those who comment either have failed as managers or do not have the bravery to attempt to do it better. Antonio Conte’s angry rebuttal of Jamie Redknapp and Neville in his post-match press conference was merely vocalising the frustration that many managers now feel at the TV stations. Benitez does not court controversies like this but the Newcastle boss, too, has said in public that he sometimes doubts the accuracy of some of the punditry on British TV.

 

And sometimes it does feel that they are pushing the sport to become more reactionary and less reflective. Arsenal Fan TV – where supporters vent their fury after games, free of any sort of comeback – used to be on the margins but that kind of analysis gets people’s attentions and is becoming much more mainstream. It’s undoubtedly making the job of being a manager harder – and changing the way we view matches or clubs.

 

At times during Newcastle’s horrendous run of form before the turn of the year it felt like those outside the North East couldn’t quite understand why supporters weren’t more vocal in their criticism of the players or manager. But if they were plugged into the mood on Tyneside, they’d realise that Newcastle fans were being reasonable. There was no sounding off because they understand what is going on at Newcastle.

 

It doesn’t always make for good TV – which maybe explains why Newcastle’s tactics against Manchester City were criticised as they were. But when the reverse fixture was played at the Etihad, there was more context in the way BT’s Rio Ferdinand and Frank Lampard looked at Newcastle’s approach. Few could readily recall what they said.

 

As someone who used to agonise about going below a 4/10 for the player ratings, it’s been interesting to watch. Football has changed radically in the last few years and this – the super pundits setting the agenda – is something arguably no-one saw coming. But it’s here to stay – and clubs, players and managers will need to find a way to deal with it.

[Altamullan]

Enjoyed that. Thanks for posting 

[Paully]

Some (and it seems to be growing) of our away support are utter bellends - the irony of the 'sign on' bollocks is astounding - dickheads!

[Newintoon]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_hgS4in7iUM

 

not sure if many ppl seen this but Gerrard and Jenas talking sense from about 3:50. For me, theres no doubt we would be bottom if we didn’t have Rafa.

 

[Benwell Lad]

Thought this Douglas article from the Chronic was canny.

 

It seems like a relic from a bygone era but there was a time when putting a number next to a professional footballer’s performance was one of the most treacherous tasks for a football reporter.

 

Merit marks were the bane of local reporter’s lives: the one thing guaranteed to provoke a response and prompt trouble. The difference between doling out a five and a seven was enough to go from a footballer being happy to talk to you in a mixed zone to them blanking you for weeks on end.

 

The chilling effect of this on cub reporters was that you learned to mitigate the really harsh criticism for when it felt really deserved. A 2-0 defeat at Liverpool, for example, was not the time to liberally sprinkle the 2, 3 or 4/10s. Not when you knew that you’d have to justify those marks to an angry player a few days later.

 

No doubt in a media ecosystem now dominated by the instant release of Twitter, where post-match venting sometimes represents the extremes of opinion, this might be viewed with suspicion. What’s wrong with saying what you really think, after all?

 

Well, nothing. But a fairly decent rule is that you take a deep breath before attempting to commit your analyse to the keyboard. If you know you’ve got to justify it to the people you’re going to speak it, it offers a fairly decent insurance policy against going too far. And I think that’s a reporter’s job: to offer a balanced critique that stands the test of time, rather than some knee-jerk reaction that, on a Monday morning following a Saturday game, might look as if you’ve been swept along by the tide of public opinion.

 

It might seem fairly quaint, but I’d say in ten years on Tyneside the number of times I’ve labelled an individual’s performance – or a team one for that matter – as “embarrassing” would be fairly limited. It feels like the sort of adjective you’d only apply when someone really plumbs the depths – not when they’ve been found wanting against a better opponent or a superior side.

 

Yet it 2018 the game has changed. Football is now played out against the backdrop of pundits who have played the game at the very top level and now feel liberated to use the sort of language which swipes headlines and garners them attention.

 

To this observer, Saturday’s Newcastle performance was a 5/10. You could see what they were trying to do and for 40 minutes they did it. After conceding the goal, United’s reticent to go forward was perhaps explained by the limited resources at Rafa Benitez’s disposal. In short, it was nothing to shout about. The context: Newcastle’s steady decline under the ownership of Mike Ashley.

 

Newcastle fans, by and large, know that. It’s why Benitez’s name was sung by the away end and why the vast majority of supporters stick with him and recognise that his tactical plans are informed by the club’s desperate need to survive in a division they look barely equipped to play it.

 

So it was a slight surprise to hear Steven Gerrard label Newcastle’s midfield “embarrassing”. It’s not the first time the word has been used this season: Gary Neville reckoned United’s tactics against Manchester City were “embarrassing”. But was it really justified in the context of what United were trying to do?

 

It sparked a debate: just as Jermaine Jenas’ recollections of his time at Newcastle did, or Frank Lampard’s critique of Jonjo Shelvey’s final ten minutes at Bournemouth did. Both were absorbing, just as Neville and Gerrard were, but there’s no doubt they were prepared to go further and use more potentially incendiary language than those who watch United every single week would about matters Newcastle.

 

It’s a far cry from the days of staid punditry where the ambition was to do no more than just describe the action in front of us. Jamie Carragher, Neville, Lampard and Gerrard are compelling to listen to partly because they are prepared to push the envelope and it has changed the boundaries of how we view football.

 

It used to be that ex-footballers would cushion their blows. It feels a long time ago that Alan Shearer was accused of holding back his criticism because he knew too many of the people he was analysing.

 

Now it’s perfectly acceptable for Neville to call Arsenal’s players “spineless” and to demand better, just as Carragher’s eviscerating critique of Newcastle’s management – he called their transfer window a “shambles” – does not feel particularly out of place.

 

You can see why it’s happening. Between them Sky and BT pay a combined £5.14billion to televise Premier League football and when the matches aren’t up to it, they need something else to persuade us that their product is worth paying for. With this new generation of pundit prepared to push the boundaries, they have it. Time and time again this season the back pages have been dominated not necessarily by what happened in the match but by what was said after it.

 

Jenas’ comments about the Newcastle team he played for were getting more attention than the Liverpool game yesterday. Neville and Carragher’s analysis of the Manchester City home game continues to be a bone of contention on Tyneside – both among supporters and a squad, who felt they went too far.

 

Benitez maintains his counsel but among Premier League managers, the feeling is that many of those who comment either have failed as managers or do not have the bravery to attempt to do it better. Antonio Conte’s angry rebuttal of Jamie Redknapp and Neville in his post-match press conference was merely vocalising the frustration that many managers now feel at the TV stations. Benitez does not court controversies like this but the Newcastle boss, too, has said in public that he sometimes doubts the accuracy of some of the punditry on British TV.

 

And sometimes it does feel that they are pushing the sport to become more reactionary and less reflective. Arsenal Fan TV – where supporters vent their fury after games, free of any sort of comeback – used to be on the margins but that kind of analysis gets people’s attentions and is becoming much more mainstream. It’s undoubtedly making the job of being a manager harder – and changing the way we view matches or clubs.

 

At times during Newcastle’s horrendous run of form before the turn of the year it felt like those outside the North East couldn’t quite understand why supporters weren’t more vocal in their criticism of the players or manager. But if they were plugged into the mood on Tyneside, they’d realise that Newcastle fans were being reasonable. There was no sounding off because they understand what is going on at Newcastle.

 

It doesn’t always make for good TV – which maybe explains why Newcastle’s tactics against Manchester City were criticised as they were. But when the reverse fixture was played at the Etihad, there was more context in the way BT’s Rio Ferdinand and Frank Lampard looked at Newcastle’s approach. Few could readily recall what they said.

 

As someone who used to agonise about going below a 4/10 for the player ratings, it’s been interesting to watch. Football has changed radically in the last few years and this – the super pundits setting the agenda – is something arguably no-one saw coming. But it’s here to stay – and clubs, players and managers will need to find a way to deal with it.

 

That's an excellent piece.

Personally I hate modern day TV punditry, more often than not given by ex pros who are not very bright and are incapable of doing anything else. I just switch it over when they come on.

Especially galling when it's BBC and against a back drop of cuts they're paying a fortune out of their budget to keep these hangers on in cushy jobs when most of us would just prefer extended highlights instead.

[Benwell Lad]

Some (and it seems to be growing) of our away support are utter bellends - the irony of the 'sign on' bollocks is astounding - dickheads!

 

I think it sometimes reflects the size of the allocation and normally smaller = better.

Also it can be the nature of the chant which attracts attention not the number singing it. Whereas positive chants when we're on top in a game are sung by just about everyone, these embarrassing ones, and in fairness the FCB one too, are only sung by some.

It's like the booing thing, there's 50,000 in a stadium but when 1,000 boo at the end it's audible and that's the story not the 49,000 who didn't.

[Dinho lad]

Don't know why people get so wound up by Crumpy. I don't agree with his opinions on Rafa at all but bloody hell some people need to relax.

 

People need to conform more.

[Sho Time]

Seems our fans did thmselves proud with the sign on chants... sure LFC fans clapped the anti Ashley chant as well.

Aye, sang about stealing stereos as well. Embarrassing.

 

Didn't hear that but the sign on chant was in full voice. That was probably one of the worst away games I've been to in terms of "radgie" divvies only there to snort gear and sing those types of songs as well as a few rousing choruses of "your support is f***ing s***" and "shall we sing a song for you". Embarrassing.

 

Group at the back of the bogs at half time smoking tabs and having keys as well with new monkey on in the background. Oooh you're hard.

[Figures 1-0 Football]

I wasn’t there, but when our support broke out into ‘you fat cockney bastard...’, it sounded like the Liverpool fans applauded? It may have been a coincidence, but I didn’t recall seeing anything on the pitch that merited the clapping (unless there was someone warming up or something?)

[ujpest doza]

MOTD didn't even show the earlier Lascelles foul on Salah.

Wasn't a foul, Salah dived.

 

[Paully]

I wasn’t there, but when our support broke out into ‘you fat cockney b******...’, it sounded like the Liverpool fans applauded? It may have been a coincidence, but I didn’t recall seeing anything on the pitch that merited the clapping (unless there was someone warming up or something?)

 

They did and then a few minutes later some of our bellends started the ‘sign on’ bollocks – helmets!

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I wasn’t there, but when our support broke out into ‘you fat cockney b******...’, it sounded like the Liverpool fans applauded? It may have been a coincidence, but I didn’t recall seeing anything on the pitch that merited the clapping (unless there was someone warming up or something?)

 

They did and then a few minutes later some of our bellends started the ‘sign on’ bollocks – helmets!

 

Aye I heard that as well from a few who went and my mate who is a Red. Shame. I dislike Liverpool as a club and don’t like how their fans are always hard done by in their eyes, but I admire them as a club for what they have achieved and as fans. They wouldn’t stand for someone like Ashley at their club and they seem a united fan base when it comes to politics. Love how you cannot get a sun newspaper there either, well you can, but no-one buys it. Canny night out as well, but easily one of the dodgiest and scariest cities in England. Just think in 75 we had won more than they had...

[joeyt]

People attacking his business as well is not on. He says it how it is and it’s not like he hasn’t said anything outrageous, we were garbage. Mind I’d didn’t think much of Liverpool for large periods either. A poor game overall.

 

FFS

That phrase