Sean Longstaff

[St1pe]

41 minutes ago, Heron said:

Got some last season.

 

We could perhaps get a more 'mainstay' flag though

I’d completely forgot about that 👍

[PauloGeordio]

Hope he can keep up this form 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

 

 

Edited November 4 by PauloGeordio

[pinkeye]

The thing with Longstaff, and I am one of those that groans at the thought of him playing for our team, is that it is impossible to see what he does that is particularly good.  As a result the odd thing he does that is poor seems to be amplified.

 

HOWEVER - I am happy to say that whatever it is that he does, he does seem to make the team tick and adds some cohesion to the midfield that really has been missing for the last few games.

 

I am also happy to say that I am very prepared to change my opinion of him, he seems to be a decent kid with his heart exactly where it needs to be.

[TRon]

38 minutes ago, PauloGeordio said:

Hope he can keep up this form 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see why not. Yesterday's game we conceded possession and let Arsenal have over 60% according to the tv coverage stats. His defensive contribution was never in question, one of the reasons why Rafa rated him highly. I guess when we play worse teams with a low block, that's when his limitations might become more of a hindrance.

 

I also think he came into the team at the right time when the Joelinton and Willock combo on the left was reintroduced. That worked really well against Chelsea in the cup as well when Tonali was playing in place of Bruno.

[nufcjmc]

My mind was made up last year I am afraid following last year injury or not. Squad player hell yes but I find when he plays well it's instantly amplified due to how poor he can be. Like in my head I see praise and go wow congrats for doing that pass longer than a few yards or congrats you chased and harassed the opposition rather than let them free unchallenged.

 

Part of the extremely negative side of me is saying wow Sean is last year of deal and wants another 3 year one so is playing out of his skin to get it. 

 

Can't help myself want better and we don't have to go out and buy it given the chance surely tonali does what he does and more. 

 

Can't deny intangible or not he does something for the teams harmony just think is it only because it's him. 

 

Still want the 3 points at the end of the day if Howe think that's happening because it's Sean then I support the manager. 

[PauloGeordio]

1 minute ago, TRon said:

 

 

I don't see why not. Yesterday's game we conceded possession and let Arsenal have over 60% according to the tv coverage stats. His defensive contribution was never in question, one of the reasons why Rafa rated him highly. I guess when we play worse teams with a low block, that's when his limitations might become more of a hindrance.

 

I also think he came into the team at the right time when the Joelinton and Willock combo on the left was reintroduced. That worked really well against Chelsea in the cup as well when Tonali was playing in place of Bruno.

He’s a confidence player too and this will help him, hopefully settle the home crowd groaners and allow him to kick on with his form. He’s got a great engine on him.

[PopeandGlory]

I just think he always looks like the weak link in the team whenever he plays. He was our joint lowest outfield player rating on Saturday on the stat site I saw.

 

He always picks the easy pass when there are more progressive options on, or will take so long to decide what he needs to do so the chance has gone.

 

He doesn’t really offer a goal threat or assists. His best return was last season (6G, 2A), which is the only time he’s ever scored more than 1 goal in a season.

 

He’s also not particularly a solid defensive midfielder as we saw last season when our midfield was cut through like a hot knife through butter with him consistently in it.

 

I wouldn’t say his performance on Saturday proved he should be playing ahead of a €60m Italian international. What it might prove is the midfield needs better balance.

 

 

Edited November 4 by PopeandGlory

[Alberto2005]

Love all the positive comments this weekend across all platforms.

 

He deserves praise for his performance Saturday, but it's laughable people now saying he's a good player.

 

I'm fine keeping him as a squad player for now, but if we want to be pushing the top 4 each season I wouldn't want him starting many games.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Yeah, ultimately it would be bizarre to prefer him to Tonali. But obviously we need a squad. 

[JEToon]

When you start to be gutted about how excited fans get when a player plays well because you want to win arguments on the Internet you need to get out and about and touch grass. 

[TRon]

17 hours ago, Alberto2005 said:

Love all the positive comments this weekend across all platforms.

 

He deserves praise for his performance Saturday, but it's laughable people now saying he's a good player.

 

I'm fine keeping him as a squad player for now, but if we want to be pushing the top 4 each season I wouldn't want him starting many games.

 

As long as we keep winning I'm sure everyone is happy. There's going to be games where we won't be able to open sides up and we'll need more inventiveness and skill on the ball. Not sure if Tonali is the answer either, but he's a better footballer given the right set up.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

54 minutes ago, JEToon said:

When you start to be gutted about how excited fans get when a player plays well because you want to win arguments on the Internet you need to get out and about and touch grass. 

Who’s doing this? 

[Conjo]

19 hours ago, PopeandGlory said:

He always picks the easy pass when there are more progressive options on, or will take so long to decide what he needs to do so the chance has gone.

 

Think this is symptomatic for a lot of our players. It annoys me particularly when the defence is passing the ball amongst themselves while being closed down by the opposition. Unless Schar is trying a hollywood pass to one of the wings, he'll rarely pass the ball longer than to the players closest to him i.e Livramento or Burn, even if Hall is open and an early pass to him will give him more time to do something productive with the ball before being closed down. Same with Burn who will pass to Hall or Schar even if Livramento is more open on the right. We all know that the ball is going to the fullbacks eventually. Why give the opposition more time to close us down? 

[Lush Vlad]

1 minute ago, Conjo said:

 

Think this is symptomatic for a lot of our players. It annoys me particularly when the defence is passing the ball amongst themselves while being closed down by the opposition. Unless Schar is trying a hollywood pass to one of the wings, he'll rarely pass the ball longer than to the players closest to him i.e Livramento or Burn, even if Hall is open and an early pass to him will give him more time to do something productive with the ball before being closed down. Same with Burn who will pass to Hall or Schar even if Livramento is more open on the right. We all know that the ball is going to the fullbacks eventually. Why give the opposition more time to close us down? 

 

Completely anecdotally and I don't have stats to back it up.  But Schar does try that 'between the lines' pass into feet a fair bit.  Just nowhere near as good or as accurate at doing it as Trippier and it gets us in trouble when he mis-places them.  He found Willock in the centre circle a few times with it on Saturday.

 

Agree on your broader point, though.  Our build up is cumbersome, predictable and usually harmless.  That said, I actually thought at times in the first half against Arsenal.  That we moved it much quicker and the midfield interchanging worked a lot better than it has all season.  Popping up in different areas, 1-2 touch passing and looking to get up the pitch.  If we can build on that, then it's a start.  

[JEToon]

I would rather Longstaff picks the easy pass all day, as to me, that is sense - Longstaff isn’t as good at football as Bruno, I would want Bruno shifting the ball and Longstaff being the legs working the field when Bruno is making a pass all day.

 

I don’t see it as a critique on Longstaff for instance to understand others are better on the ball than him, just sense to me.

 

 

 

Edited November 5 by JEToon

[STM]

19 hours ago, Alberto2005 said:

Love all the positive comments this weekend across all platforms.

 

He deserves praise for his performance Saturday, but it's laughable people now saying he's a good player.

 

I'm fine keeping him as a squad player for now, but if we want to be pushing the top 4 each season I wouldn't want him starting many games.

 

You accept it would be mental for him not to start the next game though right?

 

You also accept that we are clearly a better side when he's involved?

[Tross]

 

Well deserved. Keep it up Longy la 

[Andy]

26 minutes ago, STM said:

You also accept that we are clearly a better side when he's involved?

 

I'm not convinced by this; over the last two seasons we have given some rancid performances with Longstaff in the midfield where his own personal performance was equally bad (including earlier this season, despite the wins). He has his use in the squad, but it's too basic an analysis to only look at win% when he plays vs when he doesn't, as it ignores a load of other variables. 

 

For as much as we improved in the last two games, I think that's more down the overall balance of the team. The tactical switch of moving Joelinton to the left has made the biggest impact IMO.  

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Also not convinced. 

 

It's not worth arguing about like, I accept maybe I don't see his strengths as much as some other people.

 

Ultimately Tonali has to be in our best eleven, he's class where Longstaff is 'decent at times'. In the warmup he always looks very good, wouldn't be surprised if he has another level he could access if his mindset and confidence was more solid. 

 

Like I've said before though, I like Longstaff as a character and try not to moan too much when he loses the ball. And I'm happy to have him in the squad. 

 

 

Edited November 5 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Lush Vlad]

39 minutes ago, STM said:

 

You accept it would be mental for him not to start the next game though right?

 

You also accept that we are clearly a better side when he's involved?

No, not really. I think he will start, but I wouldn’t be against him coming out. We are about to play a team who have the 3rd worst average possession in the league and like to sit in a bit of a low-mid block. Horses for courses and that is not Longstaff’s type of game at all. 
 

Again, no. Not black and white or binary, at all. So many variables to consider. Joelinton going left. Willock coming back in. Isak finding some fitness and form. The teams we have played. Loads more, as well if we wanted to sit and go right through and analyse each game. I don’t want to  
 

FWIW, I thought he was quality the last two games and looks like he has taken on a slightly different role and tactical instructions. But we did play 2 games at home with about 30% of the ball, which certainly helped him. As that is where he excels. 

[80]

44 minutes ago, STM said:

 

You accept it would be mental for him not to start the next game though right?

 

You also accept that we are clearly a better side when he's involved?

I think mental is too strong a word, but I think it's right for him to start the next one.

 

I don't accept we're clearly a better side when he's involved. I think it's possible, but there's nowhere near enough evidence to claim it, and he's also been front and centre of some of our worst performances for the past 12 months.

 

Furthermore, it would be a really bad sign if we were better with him as it would indicate Tonali's been a catastrophic signing. Before anyone says it, there's no way we signed him to be a £60m Longstaff backup.

 

 

Edited November 5 by 80

[HawK]

1 hour ago, Conjo said:

 

Think this is symptomatic for a lot of our players. It annoys me particularly when the defence is passing the ball amongst themselves while being closed down by the opposition. Unless Schar is trying a hollywood pass to one of the wings, he'll rarely pass the ball longer than to the players closest to him i.e Livramento or Burn, even if Hall is open and an early pass to him will give him more time to do something productive with the ball before being closed down. Same with Burn who will pass to Hall or Schar even if Livramento is more open on the right. We all know that the ball is going to the fullbacks eventually. Why give the opposition more time to close us down? 

 

I think this is very intentional.

 

We don't have the players to play through the lines and play around a press in the middle of the park, Bruno aside. Allowing teams to come on to our back line actually plays into our hands, as it brings the opponent's defence line further up the pitch, and gives our pacier players more room to run into and behind for the longer ball. I believe the ideal scenario for us to start attack whilst in posession is with the opponents team well inside our half, other than quick turnovers in the opponent's penalty area.

 

But the problem is when opponents don't close us down and sit back, we move up the pitch and we camp in their half and we just don't have the tactics or the players to break down a low block. We'd be better in transition playing much more direct football with a very low defensive line, forcing teams onto us and making space.

[Conjo]

2 minutes ago, HawK said:

 

I think this is very intentional.

 

We don't have the players to play through the lines and play around a press in the middle of the park, Bruno aside. Allowing teams to come on to our back line actually plays into our hands, as it brings the opponent's defence line further up the pitch, and gives our pacier players more room to run into and behind for the longer ball. I believe the ideal scenario for us to start attack whilst in posession is with the opponents team well inside our half, other than quick turnovers in the opponent's penalty area.

 

But the problem is when opponents don't close us down and sit back, we move up the pitch and we camp in their half and we just don't have the tactics or the players to break down a low block. We'd be better in transition playing much more direct football with a very low defensive line, forcing teams onto us and making space.

 

Too often we end up being closed down too quickly, so we have to play the ball back to Pope, who diligently hoofs the ball directly to the opposition or out for a throw in

 

I agree it's a good idea to invite a press to create space up the field for ourselves, but I don't think its too much to ask Burn to be able to hit a pass to Livramento and Schar to hit a pass to Hall so that we have a bit more time with the ball in order to find an opening that isn't a pass back to Pope.

[Andy]

11 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

Again, no. Not black and white or binary, at all. So many variables to consider. Joelinton going left. Willock coming back in. Isak finding some fitness and form. The teams we have played. Loads more, as well if we wanted to sit and go right through and analyse each game. I don’t want to  

 

The only strong argument I've seen for Longstaff improving us is the win% argument, but that's really only valid if you choose to ignore every single other variable that could possibly determine the outcome of a football match. It's the whole correlation/causation thing. 

[HawK]

4 minutes ago, Conjo said:

 

Too often we end up being closed down too quickly, so we have to play the ball back to Pope, who diligently hoofs the ball directly to the opposition or out for a throw in

 

I agree it's a good idea to invite a press to create space up the field for ourselves, but I don't think its too much to ask Burn to be able to hit a pass to Livramento and Schar to hit a pass to Hall so that we have a bit more time with the ball in order to find an opening that isn't a pass back to Pope.

 

Agreed - I wasn't saying your points didn't have merit, I was just commenting on the overall sentiment of inviting pressure onto the backline.