madras Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Another point worth making, I reckon, is that time does wonders for players. Ginola was basically my hero when I was 11, but him being dropped by Dalglish was defended at the time by people that thought he was defensively lazy, he was booed when he came back with Spurs, and yet now it's generally accepted that he was absolutely fucking mint. The same thing happened with Robert, again who's now rightly seen as a brilliant player for us, and IMO the same thing will eventually happen with Ben Arfa. Wasn't Robert dropped and called lazy defensively? I still don't think Robert would've been as good a fit as Ginola 8n that team mind........and my problem with Ben Rafa wasn't his work rate defensively but when we had the ball. Can opened and there's worms in there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Absolutely mad that we sold Ginola and Ferdinand to Spurs that summer, then Shearer does his ankle. FFS that was brutal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 My first pair of wingers I watched was Solano and Robert. It's just made me think everyone else has had a shit final ball by comparision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 The knock on it had with Tomasson as well. He looked excellent in pre-season and him having to then become an out and out striker didn't help us or him. In a way it was good to see him go on to become a really successful player because it probably made a lot realise that he was a quality player, but the role he had to play for us because Shearer was injured and Ferdinand had gone just wasn't the right fit for his strengths. The Dalglish era was such a shit show really, part of me thinks that if he'd gone half measures and brought in Given, Solano, Tomasson, Hamman but kept Ginola, Ferdinand, Beresford etc, then maybe things would have been better, but then I remember that at the same time he was still Kenny Dalglish, and the approach to football was a world away from what it was under KK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 The knock on it had with Tomasson as well. He looked excellent in pre-season and him having to then become an out and out striker didn't help us or him. In a way it was good to see him go on to become a really successful player because it probably made a lot realise that he was a quality player, but the role he had to play for us because Shearer was injured and Ferdinand had gone just wasn't the right fit for his strengths. The Dalglish era was such a shit show really, part of me thinks that if he'd gone half measures and brought in Given, Solano, Tomasson, Hamman but kept Ginola, Ferdinand, Beresford etc, then maybe things would have been better, but then I remember that at the same time he was still Kenny Dalglish, and the approach to football was a world away from what it was under KK. Ferdinand had to go to balance the books, I've always personally thought that's why Keegan left, he saw a massive rebuilding job (Sir Les 30 and didn't play for Spurs for monthsHowey and Albert with long-term injuries that would continue, Beardsley getting older and was shot towards the end of the previous season and thats before the Shearer and Asprilla injuriea) and the money wasn't there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 I thought we desperately tried to get Ferdinand to stay but his mind was set on joining Spurs once we'd accepted their original bid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 leffe186[/member] would be a good person to bring in on this as well. I'm sure he has a lot of great memories of Ginola at Spurs. It's weird, he stood out more at Spurs and produced more magical moments with goals and the PFA Award, but I still always think of his peak as being the first half of 95/96 with Newcastle, despite the stats not being there to back it up. I wish there was more readily available footage of that time, or even N-O posts from that time because some of the things he did was breathtaking, even for someone used to Beardsley. For a good at least 5 month period he was one of the best players I've ever seen at Newcastle and at the time one of the best players out there - certainly good enough to be the difference between winning the league and not. Consistency matters though and for whatever reason, after that he was never at that level again for us. The criticism slowly faded in and his defensive weaknesses were regularly pointed out. He was the stereotype that imo solidified the presumption that NUFC french wingers = mercurial, but I doubt even his critics would deny that it wasn't all worth it for the moments that he gave us, he was absolute magic, I loved him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 The knock on it had with Tomasson as well. He looked excellent in pre-season and him having to then become an out and out striker didn't help us or him. In a way it was good to see him go on to become a really successful player because it probably made a lot realise that he was a quality player, but the role he had to play for us because Shearer was injured and Ferdinand had gone just wasn't the right fit for his strengths. The Dalglish era was such a s*** show really, part of me thinks that if he'd gone half measures and brought in Given, Solano, Tomasson, Hamman but kept Ginola, Ferdinand, Beresford etc, then maybe things would have been better, but then I remember that at the same time he was still Kenny Dalglish, and the approach to football was a world away from what it was under KK. Ferdinand had to go to balance the books, I've always personally thought that's why Keegan left, he saw a massive rebuilding job (Sir Les 30 and didn't play for Spurs for monthsHowey and Albert with long-term injuries that would continue, Beardsley getting older and was shot towards the end of the previous season and thats before the Shearer and Asprilla injuriea) and the money wasn't there. It's a fair theory like, but I'd always take Keegan at his word, the man's honest to a fault. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Another point worth making, I reckon, is that time does wonders for players. Ginola was basically my hero when I was 11, but him being dropped by Dalglish was defended at the time by people that thought he was defensively lazy, he was booed when he came back with Spurs, and yet now it's generally accepted that he was absolutely fucking mint. The same thing happened with Robert, again who's now rightly seen as a brilliant player for us, and IMO the same thing will eventually happen with Ben Arfa. I clearly remember the booing. It was embarrassing. It's happened to other players too when it seems bizarre and unjustified. I suppose we can reconcile that by realising that if 500 people in a crowd of 50,000 are audibly booing then that becomes the story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 I thought we desperately tried to get Ferdinand to stay but his mind was set on joining Spurs once we'd accepted their original bid. According to Ferdinand it was a case of him not wanting to stay when he already knew he wasn't wanted, and all of the players backing his decision. He didn't want to go to Spurs, he wanted to stay, but once he knew Dalglish didn't want him it made his mind up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 leffe186[/member] would be a good person to bring in on this as well. I'm sure he has a lot of great memories of Ginola at Spurs. It's weird, he stood out more at Spurs and produced more magical moments with goals and the PFA Award, but I still always think of his peak as being the first half of 95/96 with Newcastle, despite the stats not being there to back it up. I wish there was more readily available footage of that time, or even N-O posts from that time because some of the things he did was breathtaking, even for someone used to Beardsley. For a good at least 5 month period he was one of the best players I've ever seen at Newcastle and at the time one of the best players out there - certainly good enough to be the difference between winning the league and not. Consistency matters though and for whatever reason, after that he was never at that level again for us. The criticism slowly faded in and his defensive weaknesses were regularly pointed out. He was the stereotype that imo solidified the presumption that NUFC french wingers = mercurial, but I doubt even his critics would deny that it wasn't all worth it for the moments that he gave us, he was absolute magic, I loved him. Agree with all that. He humiliated defenders in ways that made us giggle. That Bolton away game, his second for us I think, gave so many moments when you looked at your mates and just "wow" in a way you didn't with Robert. That Arsenal league cup when Winterburn was walking thinking he'd been sent off but no a Shit ref booked Daveed instead and even Winterburn couldn't believe it and between him and Dixon they realised they could foul carte Blanche, then Ginola wanted away in my eyes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Another point worth making, I reckon, is that time does wonders for players. Ginola was basically my hero when I was 11, but him being dropped by Dalglish was defended at the time by people that thought he was defensively lazy, he was booed when he came back with Spurs, and yet now it's generally accepted that he was absolutely f***ing mint. The same thing happened with Robert, again who's now rightly seen as a brilliant player for us, and IMO the same thing will eventually happen with Ben Arfa. I clearly remember the booing. It was embarrassing. It's happened to other players too when it seems bizarre and unjustified. I suppose we can reconcile that by realising that if 500 people in a crowd of 50,000 are audibly booing then that becomes the story. It's the 50th time I've made exactly the same point, but James Milner was booed. A player who always put in his all and didn't even want to leave. If he's getting booed you've got no chance. It's not just us either, it's the modern football fan going blindly tribal and it's a right shame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Another point worth making, I reckon, is that time does wonders for players. Ginola was basically my hero when I was 11, but him being dropped by Dalglish was defended at the time by people that thought he was defensively lazy, he was booed when he came back with Spurs, and yet now it's generally accepted that he was absolutely f***ing mint. The same thing happened with Robert, again who's now rightly seen as a brilliant player for us, and IMO the same thing will eventually happen with Ben Arfa. I clearly remember the booing. It was embarrassing. It's happened to other players too when it seems bizarre and unjustified. I suppose we can reconcile that by realising that if 500 people in a crowd of 50,000 are audibly booing then that becomes the story. It's the 50th time I've made exactly the same point, but James Milner was booed. A player who always put in his all and didn't even want to leave. If he's getting booed you've got no chance. It's not just us either, it's the modern football fan going blindly tribal and it's a right shame. The Steve Watson booing was hilarious mind. I think Sir Les got booed on his first touch for giggles aswell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 leffe186[/member] would be a good person to bring in on this as well. I'm sure he has a lot of great memories of Ginola at Spurs. It's weird, he stood out more at Spurs and produced more magical moments with goals and the PFA Award, but I still always think of his peak as being the first half of 95/96 with Newcastle, despite the stats not being there to back it up. I wish there was more readily available footage of that time, or even N-O posts from that time because some of the things he did was breathtaking, even for someone used to Beardsley. For a good at least 5 month period he was one of the best players I've ever seen at Newcastle and at the time one of the best players out there - certainly good enough to be the difference between winning the league and not. Consistency matters though and for whatever reason, after that he was never at that level again for us. The criticism slowly faded in and his defensive weaknesses were regularly pointed out. He was the stereotype that imo solidified the presumption that NUFC french wingers = mercurial, but I doubt even his critics would deny that it wasn't all worth it for the moments that he gave us, he was absolute magic, I loved him. Agree with all that. He humiliated defenders in ways that made us giggle. That Bolton away game, his second for us I think, gave so many moments when you looked at your mates and just "wow" in a way you didn't with Robert. That Arsenal league cup when Winterburn was walking thinking he'd been sent off but no a s*** ref booked Daveed instead and even Winterburn couldn't believe it and between him and Dixon they realised they could foul carte Blanche, then Ginola wanted away in my eyes. That Arsenal match was the moment when it changed for him IIRC. He'd been accused of diving, but 90s diving in the sense that he'd be considered robust by today's standards, and as you say got kicked all over by their players without any protection from the ref, probably assuming that he was play acting. I've never been able to like Lee Dixon since. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 leffe186[/member] would be a good person to bring in on this as well. I'm sure he has a lot of great memories of Ginola at Spurs. It's weird, he stood out more at Spurs and produced more magical moments with goals and the PFA Award, but I still always think of his peak as being the first half of 95/96 with Newcastle, despite the stats not being there to back it up. I wish there was more readily available footage of that time, or even N-O posts from that time because some of the things he did was breathtaking, even for someone used to Beardsley. For a good at least 5 month period he was one of the best players I've ever seen at Newcastle and at the time one of the best players out there - certainly good enough to be the difference between winning the league and not. Consistency matters though and for whatever reason, after that he was never at that level again for us. The criticism slowly faded in and his defensive weaknesses were regularly pointed out. He was the stereotype that imo solidified the presumption that NUFC french wingers = mercurial, but I doubt even his critics would deny that it wasn't all worth it for the moments that he gave us, he was absolute magic, I loved him. Agree with all that. He humiliated defenders in ways that made us giggle. That Bolton away game, his second for us I think, gave so many moments when you looked at your mates and just "wow" in a way you didn't with Robert. That Arsenal league cup when Winterburn was walking thinking he'd been sent off but no a s*** ref booked Daveed instead and even Winterburn couldn't believe it and between him and Dixon they realised they could foul carte Blanche, then Ginola wanted away in my eyes. That Arsenal match was the moment when it changed for him IIRC. He'd been accused of diving, but 90s diving in the sense that he'd be considered robust by today's standards, and as you say got kicked all over by their players without any protection from the ref, probably assuming that he was play acting. I've never been able to like Lee Dixon since. I think that time aswell he realised we weren't going to strengthen and like Keegan before him, realised the money wasn't there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 We bought Shearer for a world record fee like. Maybe after that, but it didn't need any wholesale changes. Imagine KK bringing in Given, Solano and others to strengthen us and pushing on. The money was still there for the most part until Hall then Shepherd left, so maybe we wouldn't have gone and broken the world record again, but we still had good money to spend on players that KK would have been after and would have strengthened us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Another point worth making, I reckon, is that time does wonders for players. Ginola was basically my hero when I was 11, but him being dropped by Dalglish was defended at the time by people that thought he was defensively lazy, he was booed when he came back with Spurs, and yet now it's generally accepted that he was absolutely f***ing mint. The same thing happened with Robert, again who's now rightly seen as a brilliant player for us, and IMO the same thing will eventually happen with Ben Arfa. I clearly remember the booing. It was embarrassing. It's happened to other players too when it seems bizarre and unjustified. I suppose we can reconcile that by realising that if 500 people in a crowd of 50,000 are audibly booing then that becomes the story. It's the 50th time I've made exactly the same point, but James Milner was booed. A player who always put in his all and didn't even want to leave. If he's getting booed you've got no chance. It's not just us either, it's the modern football fan going blindly tribal and it's a right shame. Don't think it was as much the player that was booed as the decision to play him over other choices. He wasn't very good for us. A carthorse on the wing that did more back passes than Damian Duff. He couldnt beat a man and his crossing was poor. Maybe if he had been tried more centrally for us like when he was at his first loan at Villa it would have been different, but at the time I thought it was a no brainer to sell him at that price provided we got someone better in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odear Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Agent Dalglish... that man did as much if not more damage to this club than anything that’s happened since under all these shitty Mike Ashley years. The chairman should have put an end to his reign once it became apparent who he was selling and who he was replacing them with. We went from being the entertainers to dads army within a season. Imagine selling Ferdinand and Ginola and replacing them with fat John Barnes and a geriatric Ian Rush. In any other line of work there would be criminal charges for pulling shit like that. Other notables, “Disco” Des Hamilton, Andreas Andersson and who could forget Brian Pinas. Fuck that Scottish cunt and the horse he rode in on... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 leffe186[/member] would be a good person to bring in on this as well. I'm sure he has a lot of great memories of Ginola at Spurs. It's weird, he stood out more at Spurs and produced more magical moments with goals and the PFA Award, but I still always think of his peak as being the first half of 95/96 with Newcastle, despite the stats not being there to back it up. I wish there was more readily available footage of that time, or even N-O posts from that time because some of the things he did was breathtaking, even for someone used to Beardsley. For a good at least 5 month period he was one of the best players I've ever seen at Newcastle and at the time one of the best players out there - certainly good enough to be the difference between winning the league and not. Consistency matters though and for whatever reason, after that he was never at that level again for us. The criticism slowly faded in and his defensive weaknesses were regularly pointed out. He was the stereotype that imo solidified the presumption that NUFC french wingers = mercurial, but I doubt even his critics would deny that it wasn't all worth it for the moments that he gave us, he was absolute magic, I loved him. It's so weird to think that Ginola was only at Newcastle for a couple of years and at Spurs for only three. He is irrevocably linked to us both. You clearly had him at his peak and in a stronger team - by the time he got to us he was over 30. He was playing in teams with such luminaries as Justin Edinburgh, Dean Austin, and Stephen Clemence. We finished 14th, 11th, and 10th, but he was Player of the Year in that middle season - he was that good. We ran out of forwards at one point IIRC and played him up front. Surprisingly big and strong, beautifully balanced, two-footed, clever - he was an absolute pleasure to watch, and I think it's fair to say he was universally loved here. You can get a pretty good idea of the age of a Spurs fan by asking them their favourite player. I think the list runs something like this - Hoddle -> Gazza -> Ginola -> Berbatov -> Bale/VDV -> Kane. I think that speaks volumes. There were other great contemporaries, but they were the ones who - Kane aside, arguably - brought the magic. They're the ones that stood out, although you could argue that part of the reason Ginola stood out so much was that the team he played in was so mediocre. That's certainly why he stood out more at Spurs than at Newcastle. I do have a lot of good memories of Ginola - after all, he scored over 20 goals for us (as against seven for you). I think they are slightly tainted by how uninspiring we were at the time, and my age - I grew up with Hoddle, Waddle, Ardiles etc etc, and even Gazza was my sixth form. By the time Ginola came along I was a bit jaded, and also recognized that we were getting a player who was just past his best. By way of contrast, I completely fell in love with Berbatov. That said, Ginola was fantastic to watch, and like VDV and Berba after him, felt like a bit of a throwback. He was the guy in your Sunday team who smoked like a chimney, drank like a fish, then went out on the field and took the piss. The nice thing about Ginola compared to, say, Hoddle or Gazza, was that you wanted to be like him off the pitch as well. Hoddle was slightly strange, Gazza was...er...daft as a brush, but Ginola was - and is - cool as fuck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paully Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 That Arsenal match was the moment when it changed for him IIRC. He'd been accused of diving, but 90s diving in the sense that he'd be considered robust by today's standards, and as you say got kicked all over by their players without any protection from the ref, probably assuming that he was play acting. I've never been able to like Lee Dixon since. Yep - that wanker Lou Macari set the ball rolling when he slated him for diving after we battered Stoke 4-0 and Ginola was unplayable! As you say, those first four months he was incredible! First time I seen him was at Hearts in a pre-season friendly and you knew he was something very special! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Agent Dalglish... that man did as much if not more damage to this club than anything that’s happened since under all these shitty Mike Ashley years. I'm not a Dalglish fan, but what a load of total horse shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Agent Dalglish... that man did as much if not more damage to this club than anything that’s happened since under all these shitty Mike Ashley years. Crikey Moses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Another point worth making, I reckon, is that time does wonders for players. Ginola was basically my hero when I was 11, but him being dropped by Dalglish was defended at the time by people that thought he was defensively lazy, he was booed when he came back with Spurs, and yet now it's generally accepted that he was absolutely f***ing mint. The same thing happened with Robert, again who's now rightly seen as a brilliant player for us, and IMO the same thing will eventually happen with Ben Arfa. I clearly remember the booing. It was embarrassing. It's happened to other players too when it seems bizarre and unjustified. I suppose we can reconcile that by realising that if 500 people in a crowd of 50,000 are audibly booing then that becomes the story. It's the 50th time I've made exactly the same point, but James Milner was booed. A player who always put in his all and didn't even want to leave. If he's getting booed you've got no chance. It's not just us either, it's the modern football fan going blindly tribal and it's a right shame. Don't think it was as much the player that was booed as the decision to play him over other choices. He wasn't very good for us. A carthorse on the wing that did more back passes than Damian Duff. He couldnt beat a man and his crossing was poor. Maybe if he had been tried more centrally for us like when he was at his first loan at Villa it would have been different, but at the time I thought it was a no brainer to sell him at that price provided we got someone better in. No, I mean he was booed when he came back to play against us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Agent Dalglish... that man did as much if not more damage to this club than anything that’s happened since under all these shitty Mike Ashley years. The chairman should have put an end to his reign once it became apparent who he was selling and who he was replacing them with. We went from being the entertainers to dads army within a season. Imagine selling Ferdinand and Ginola and replacing them with fat John Barnes and a geriatric Ian Rush. In any other line of work there would be criminal charges for pulling shit like that. Other notables, “Disco” Des Hamilton, Andreas Andersson and who could forget Brian Pinas. Fuck that Scottish cunt and the horse he rode in on... Jesus wept, not a single clue about what was going on at the club after it turned into a PLC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John P Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Surprised when I looked up Ginola's record to see that he only scored seven goals for us. Would be interested to know how many assists he got in those 2 seasons though, must have been a fair few? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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