LionOfGosforth Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 (edited) It's a pen, not too much doubt but a card too? Come on man, never in a million years does that deserve a red card. Once a card is decided, it's going to be red Edited August 28, 2021 by LionOfGosforth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, midds said: Doesn't he have to though? Handball on the line has always has been a straight red. Once he's decided it's a pen (wasn't imo) he has no choice but to follow it up with a straight red iirc. It's all or nothing. Aye. I also thought the rules had changed on handball where if it prevents a goal, it’s a pen regardless of intent or not. May have made that up as the handball rule/interpretation appears to be changed on the daily since VAR came in. Edit - quick Google makes me think I made it up. Edited August 28, 2021 by Fantail Breeze Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 Even with a monitor right by the pitch for these refs to review things they still manage to ruin things. It's like he had decided he was already going to give it to play to the home crowd. The fact they even asked for him to have another look is an indication that even the penalty wasn't certain because of the initial bounce of his leg. and then the plonker doesn't take the time to look at it properly, and not only gives a pen, but a red card too. If it was that blatant an offence they wouldn't have asked the idiot to have a look himself. Unbelievable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 Deliberate handball denying a goal has been a red for eons, not sure what the issue is? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionOfGosforth Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 Fucking Henderson deserves a slap for creating that secondary melee like, what a tit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 Just now, LionOfGosforth said: Fucking Henderson deserves a slap for creating that secondary melee like, what a tit Mendy would have decked the cheeky twat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Disco said: Deliberate handball denying a goal has been a red for eons, not sure what the issue is? Wasn’t deliberate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 If you don't send him off then there's not much penalty for handling on the line. Everyone would take a pen over a certain goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie_b Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Disco said: Deliberate handball denying a goal has been a red for eons, not sure what the issue is? Because it wasn’t deliberate due to hitting the knee first (or at least I thought that was the interpretation now) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 It has to be a 'deliberate' handball to avoid reds for obvious bounces off arms. I am kinda alone in thinking he did kinda scoop the ball with teh arm in a forward motion rather than just have it richocet off so maaaaybe makes sense as a red but it is well harsh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 1 minute ago, ManDoon said: I thought they changed the red/penalty thing? I.e you didn’t get punished twice if you weren’t like blatantly hacking someone Think that's for a genuine attempt to tackle in the box as opposed to a handball on the line. Mistimed tackle is yellow and pen only, again iirc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 1 minute ago, ManDoon said: I thought they changed the red/penalty thing? I.e you didn’t get punished twice if you weren’t like blatantly hacking someone That was for a foul as last man, not handball. As others have said, unless it’s a red players would always take the chance with a pen and handle it on the line to stop a goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 Just now, geordie_b said: Because it wasn’t deliberate due to hitting the knee first (or at least I thought that was the interpretation now) Moving your arm towards the ball is pretty deliberate like. I’ll agree he’s unlucky as he tried to use his knee but he knows what he’s doing and we’ve all done similar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, ManDoon said: I thought they changed the red/penalty thing? I.e you didn’t get punished twice if you weren’t like blatantly hacking someone It’s not red if you try to play the ball no matter how clumsily but still red if you just pull someone down from arm for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Tiresias said: It has to be a 'deliberate' handball to avoid reds for obvious bounces off arms. I am kinda alone in thinking he did kinda scoop the ball with teh arm in a forward motion rather than just have it richocet off so maaaaybe makes sense as a red but it is well harsh. The scoop seemed more a reflex/natural motion I think, enough to warrant the penalty, but not clear enough to be a red IMO as it cannot be deemed deliberate for certain. It's a tough one in hindsight. Think the ref should have certainly had more of a proper look though. Edited August 28, 2021 by KaKa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie_b Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, Disco said: Moving your arm towards the ball is pretty deliberate like. I’ll agree he’s unlucky as he tried to use his knee but he knows what he’s doing and we’ve all done similar. Only see it a few times but looked like the arm swing came after it had hit his arm, something the ref couldn’t have seen when he viewed his replay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 Just now, geordie_b said: Only see it a few times but looked like the arm swing came after it had hit his arm, something the ref couldn’t have seen when he viewed his replay It did, but his intent with his arm move was to block it. So although the contact was unfortunate, it was still his intention imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Disco said: Ah, so once it's deemed a handball that has denied a goal it has to be a red, regardless of whether the hand movement was deliberate or not. Fair enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 I think the deliberately bit gets people. I think the refs interpretation of 'deliberate' is as in the example 'player moves the arm towards the ball' which James does, rather than mind reading the player. It is merely meant to stop when ball just bounches dirrectly off at point blank range. James moved his arm and carried ball out o fgoal with it. It is ambiguous, it is daft to double punish pen is definitely enough of a punishment but strangely both a red card and no red card is in the rules so both sides can argue endlessly cos both interpretations seem fair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 1 minute ago, ManDoon said: Yeah I remember them bringing it in, for some reason I thought it was more broad. I swear there was some wording at the time where they were essentially saying they didn’t want to punish people twice. I thought the James one was accidental honestly, but yeah makes sense. That was the double jeopardy thing that got raised a while back. Red, pen and a suspension was (rightly) deemed excessive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 The trouble is if they get rid of the 'deliberate' bit they will get loads of unfair reds, if they keep it in you have this ambiguity. I think solution is more pen should be fine punishment 90% of the time and the ref needs a higher bar for sending off for cases when it is clearly completely conscious and intentional Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, ManDoon said: I thought they changed the red/penalty thing? I.e you didn’t get punished twice if you weren’t like blatantly hacking someone Not for that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Tiresias said: I think the deliberately bit gets people. I think the refs interpretation of 'deliberate' is as in the example 'player moves the arm towards the ball' which James does, rather than mind reading the player. It is merely meant to stop when ball just bounches dirrectly off at point blank range. James moved his arm and carried ball out o fgoal with it. It is ambiguous, it is daft to double punish pen is definitely enough of a punishment but strangely both a red card and no red card is in the rules so both sides can argue endlessly cos both interpretations seem fair. Yeah, it's a tough one for James. The way the rule is written though it seems once it is determined to be a handball he then has to go. Really unlucky. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 1 minute ago, ManDoon said: Yeah makes sense, and definitely a good rule change. Just feel like the James one, it’s debatable and feels harsh. To me at least Aye it was the little scoop he did that fucked it. Had it just bounced off his forearm back into play or round the post he'd have probably got away with it. Just too much of a movement made it look deliberate, it's a bit tough on them. Then again it's Chelsea so fuck them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts