Joe Willock

[Away Toon]

Bought for the same reason Lewis, ASM, Almiron and Joe Linton were, make a profit a season or two down the line. We would make a profit on ASM, but a loss on the others. My bet is if we want to sell Willock in a couple of years we lose out on him as well.

 

A shit policy for a shit club.

[Stottie]

I don't understand why Arsenal don't rate him. Do they have a tasty sell-on clause or buyback option? Normally "top six" clubs sell past-it players on big wages to clubs our level, not their prospects.

 

There is too much about him to dismiss it all as simply a hot streak. You could halve his goal production, down to xG/shots per game averages, and it would still be a great contribution from midfield.

[Ben]

1 hour ago, Stottie said:

I don't understand why Arsenal don't rate him. Do they have a tasty sell-on clause or buyback option? Normally "top six" clubs sell past-it players on big wages to clubs our level, not their prospects.

 

There is too much about him to dismiss it all as simply a hot streak. You could halve his goal production, down to xG/shots per game averages, and it would still be a great contribution from midfield.

TBF their fans don't rate him either 

[Guest]

Good move all round. He’s got about 50 matches to play his way into the World Cup squad.

[Guest neesy111]

This deal keeps us up, barring a Brucey disaster.

[Ed210]

Willock in then ASM sold a few days later. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if the club promised willock ASM was staying to convince  him to sign and then flog him. 

[KaKa]

38 minutes ago, Ben said:

TBF their fans don't rate him either 

 

Yeah, one of my really good friends is a proper Arsenal fan and he doesn't rate him and most of their fans are not fussed about him at all. He has never really performed when in the team for them. Same with Reiss Nelson.

 

I think Willock is one that benefits from a simpler set of instructions and more freedom on the pitch as he got under Bruce at Newcastle. Arsenal tend to be far more specific and detailed tactically and I think he struggles with that.

[jackyboy]

Willock will go rapidly downhill here, I think that he's making a big mistake. If he isn't knocking goals in at the rate he did before Bruce will drop him and drain the lad of confidence

[mrmojorisin75]

1 minute ago, KaKa said:

 

Yeah, one of my really good friends is a proper Arsenal fan and he doesn't rate him and most of their fans are not fussed about him at all. He has never really performed when in the team for them. Same with Reiss Nelson.

 

I think Willock is one that benefits from a simpler set of instructions and more freedom on the pitch as he got under Bruce at Newcastle. Arsenal tend to be far more specific and detailed tactically and I think he struggles with that.

 

He seems to thrive in a team that doesn't have the ball and play on the counter due to his running ability and timing.  Arsenal are a possession team, it's no surprise really.

[Guest neesy111]

2 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Yeah, one of my really good friends is a proper Arsenal fan and he doesn't rate him and most of their fans are not fussed about him at all. He has never really performed when in the team for them. Same with Reiss Nelson.

 

I think Willock is one that benefits from a simpler set of instructions and more freedom on the pitch as he got under Bruce at Newcastle. Arsenal tend to be far more specific and detailed tactically and I think he struggles with that.

 

Suspect playing in a worse team helps him.

[mrmojorisin75]

Just now, jackyboy said:

Willock will go rapidly downhill here, I think that he's making a big mistake. If he isn't knocking goals in at the rate he did before Bruce will drop him and drain the lad of confidence

 

He won't be allowed to drop him for that fee, but I agree this could end badly unless they give bacon a couple of loans to support things as well.

[RS]

1 minute ago, jackyboy said:

Willock will go rapidly downhill here, I think that he's making a big mistake. If he isn't knocking goals in at the rate he did before Bruce will drop him and drain the lad of confidence

Like he dropped joelinton?

[mrmojorisin75]

Shelvey is the fucking problem really, useless fucker won't drop him.  If it was a rotating midfield of Willock, Hayden, Longstaff, Shortstaff + 1 new addition I'd be less concerned but it'll always be some of these players with Shelvey :/

[samptime29]

If we got another decent CM and striker. And spent 35M on them - it would be good window but we won't. We all know the drill.

[RS]

I wish he had already put pen to paper. I get this awful feeling his agent is hawking him round other clubs with this agreement in his back pocket 

[RodneyCisse]

This season Shelvey will once again be the problem, Bruce can’t not play him when fit for whatever reason.

[McCormick]

2 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

Yeah, one of my really good friends is a proper Arsenal fan and he doesn't rate him and most of their fans are not fussed about him at all. He has never really performed when in the team for them. Same with Reiss Nelson.

 

I think Willock is one that benefits from a simpler set of instructions and more freedom on the pitch as he got under Bruce at Newcastle. Arsenal tend to be far more specific and detailed tactically and I think he struggles with that.

Yup, he’s definitely very underdeveloped tactically but at 21 that’s to be expected, really.

 

Needs to release the ball quicker and bring teammates into the game more to really excel at a top team. For us though, since we usually get the ball back in our own half (seeing as we have no discernible pressing), his ball carrying ability is so important.
 

As we rely on players like Almiron and Murphy who, as soon as they get the ball, just charge up the field and run out of ideas in the final third, his pace and ability to get into the box late will get him a few goals.

[KaKa]

18 minutes ago, McCormick said:

Yup, he’s definitely very underdeveloped tactically but at 21 that’s to be expected, really.

 

Needs to release the ball quicker and bring teammates into the game more to really excel at a top team. For us though, since we usually get the ball back in our own half (seeing as we have no discernible pressing), his ball carrying ability is so important.
 

As we rely on players like Almiron and Murphy who, as soon as they get the ball, just charge up the field and run out of ideas in the final third, his pace and ability to get into the box late will get him a few goals.

 

Yes, absolutely agree. 

 

There are deals to be had with Arsenal. I think a lot of their players get top class training and development but aren't always as well suited for their tactical approach. I think the likes of Reiss Nelson and Eddie Nketiah would be clever signings for where we are and could similarly look much better in out setup just like Willock did. Even Maitland-Niles wouldn't be a bad shout as I like him at right-wing back, but it seems he is intent on wanting to play in central midfield going forward. 

[Guest reefatoon]

2 hours ago, mrmojorisin75 said:

Shelvey is the fucking problem really, useless fucker won't drop him.  If it was a rotating midfield of Willock, Hayden, Longstaff, Shortstaff + 1 new addition I'd be less concerned but it'll always be some of these players with Shelvey :/

Totally agree. Why they feel the need to play Shelvey when we have 5 at the back anyway is crazy. All he wants to do is sit right next to them and boot it off the pitch. Need more mobile midfielders who push on.

[Guest HTT II]

He’s perfect for us given his attributes, that and all he really has to do is run, break from deep and get into the box and score. At Arsenal it’s a more measured, technical and tactical system which he falls way behind in because that’s not his game. You either, with players like him, build a system around him, or try and fit them into a system and it’s easier to build around the likes of him due to his limitations and sadly for us, it’s better for us actually to have one such player or two in him and ASM. Long term it’s round pegs in square holes really.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by HTT II

[Kanj]

“Not suited to Arsenal’s tactical approach”    I’ve a lot of time for Arteta and rather he manage us but don’t make Willock out to be some stupid player who only relies on physical attributes that’s really an odd and unfounded way to criticize him IMO. 

[KaKa]

Just now, Kanji said:

“Not suited to Arsenal’s tactical approach”    I’ve a lot of time for Arteta and rather he manage us but don’t make Willock out to be some stupid player who only relies on physical attributes that’s really an odd and unfounded way to criticize him IMO. 

 

No, not at all. It's not that he's thick, it's more about the space he is afforded and the freedom he has to vacate the midfield and get into the box.

 

Arsenal press high up the pitch and play a patient possession game to open up teams, and so he isn't afforded the space as much to stretch his legs and run with the ball in space in the centre of the pitch, which he can do more in our setup where we defend deeper and can break on teams more.

 

Also in Arsenal's more possession heavy setup the midfield has to keep the ball more and they try to play through the middle more often and aren't as direct, and also don't cross the ball from wide areas as much. So I don't think he has the same freedom to break position and try to get in the box to score.

[Kanj]

3 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

No, not at all. It's not that he's thick, it's more about the space he is afforded and the freedom he has to vacate the midfield and get into the box.

 

Arsenal press high up the pitch and play a patient possession game to open up teams, and so he isn't afforded the space as much to stretch his legs and run with the ball in space in the centre of the pitch, which he can do more in our setup where we defend deeper and can break on teams more.

 

Also in Arsenal's more possession heavy setup the midfield has to keep the ball more and they try to play through the middle more often and aren't as direct, and also don't cross the ball from wide areas as much. So I don't think he has the same freedom to break position and try to get in the box to score.

Aight better analysis.  just a crazy and lazy thing to say unless you throw the context of why you’re saying it above. 

[Guest HTT II]

12 minutes ago, Kanji said:

“Not suited to Arsenal’s tactical approach”    I’ve a lot of time for Arteta and rather he manage us but don’t make Willock out to be some stupid player who only relies on physical attributes that’s really an odd and unfounded way to criticize him IMO. 

He’s not though, that’s not detracting from him as a player or his abilities, if he was suited to their game, they’d be keeping him…

[Kanj]

I think the sale is heavily fueled by fund raising to sign a bigger name and they aren’t getting much attention on some of the other lads. But Kaka had a good post explaining the Arsenal tactical approach versus just saying “he’s not suited to a more tactical game at Arsenal” like he’s thick and just a dribbler or something.