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Steve Bruce (now unemployed)


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6 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I'm still amazed there was anyone at the club who thought about that, knew who Jones was, and made the move happen. Very strange.

 

I'd say with some confidence that it had absolutely fuck all to do with honest Steve, despite what he might tell you. Like he would have the self-awareness to be sat there thinking "hmm, I need a hand with the tactics, who can I find?" :lol:

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12 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

I'd say with some confidence that it had absolutely fuck all to do with honest Steve, despite what he might tell you. Like he would have the self-awareness to be sat there thinking "hmm, I need a hand with the tactics, who can I find?" :lol:

 

Oh I agree, I just don't understand how it happened. 

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23 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

Oh I agree, I just don't understand how it happened. 

 

Honestly think it was a fluke. There's no way Charnley has any football knowledge, and our chief scout targeted Joelinton for £40m.

 

Maybe Big Mike rang Graham Carr and asked if he knew anyone who could do a caretaker job if Bruce had to be fired. 

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Nah - dont think it was a fluke myself.

 

Jones is almost the perfect fit in terms of the coach we needed. Not only that, he was the right coach at the right time.

 

Someone at the clurb or connected with it knew he was open to the move.

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As if we have anyone capable of identifying the perfect fit as a coach. There's not one respected football man at the club on the admin side. If it wasn't a fluke maybe Mike bribed someone at another club to come up with a name. The groundsman at Liverpool or something. 

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I don't think that Bruce had even heard of Jones before he came here let alone it being his idea. Bruce is not one to try and  expand on his limited knowledge by observing how other coaches and successful managers operate

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i dont think brucey had anything to do with his appointment.

 

It just seems too much of a coincidence that the hired the right coach at the right time.

 

I don't think it was ever explained who approached who when he first came here. I just remember brucie being somewhat annoyed lol

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He told TalkSPORT: "He gets criticised for the team not playing attractive football but I think he deserves a new contract for working with Mike Ashley.

"He's got his hands tied and they finished 13th.

"He's a Newcastle fan. I've been there and worked there, it's a great club with great supporters.

 

"They're really enthusiastic and as friendly as you can imagine - any other club I've been at, I was treated brilliantly there.

"They demand that the team goes at people but that's been squashed a little bit because they've been relegated and then [Rafa] Benitez took over and played 4-5-1.

"I never thought a crowd at St. James' Park - you'd be able to sit back and let teams have 60 per cent possession, but they did.

 

"They realised he's done the job with no money and now Steve Bruce has ended up with the job. Similarly, he's setting the team up not to lose most games.

"He's having a go at teams he thinks he can beat and he's not shopping in the top shelf. He's shopping three stores down somewhere to try and get his players.

"He's been given the minimum amount of money and if he keeps Newcastle in league, I think he's done a good job."

 

 

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"He gets criticised for the team not playing attractive football" - we're the most passive side in the PL for a long time. PPDA is the highest average out of any team since at least 2014/15 according to Understat, 18 last season and 19 the season before. Meaning the opposition has on average 18.5 passes, combining both seasons, before we think about making a defensive action like a press. The median seems to be around 13, which is where we were previously since promotion. 

 

"but I think he deserves a new contract for working with Mike Ashley."  - if simply working with Ashley deserves a new contract, then any manager we've had since 2007 fits into that, I don't think Carver etc deserved a new contract 

 

"He's got his hands tied" - appreciate the uncertainty, especially over the takeover, but surely we have enough for free transfers? Townsend for example. Fraser last summer or even Hendrick even if fans haven't warmed to him. Debut was great admittedly! 

 

"He's a Newcastle fan." - vast majority on this forum are Newcastle fans. Graeme Jones is a Newcastle fan. We even have a few players who are Newcastle fans, it has no bearing on the success of a team. If anything, it makes the downfall harder because it's your own club you're affecting.

 

"They demand that the team goes at people but that's been squashed a little bit" - continue to be the most passive side in terms of style in at least 7 seasons. This season a small improvement on the last. Very lucky to have a natural goalscorer like Wilson, one of the small bright sparks about the new season. A fit Fraser and Wilson partnership starting would do wonders. 

 

"because they've been relegated and then [Rafa] Benitez took over and played 4-5-1." - Relegation resets the clock on progress so we'll compare from 2017/18 onwards. Rafa used a 4-4-1-1, and the more standard 4-4-2 on occasion, also a 4-2-3-1 , opting for a 3-4-3 in the 2nd half of 18/19 when Almiron signed. https://themastermindsite.com/2018/08/05/3-ways-to-play-in-a-4-5-1/ Different forms of a 4-5-1, but not a flat formation outright.

 

"you'd be able to sit back and let teams have 60 per cent possession, but they did." - Russell Martin infamously at MK Dons had his team with an average possession comparable to Man City yet their side were mid-table. Their goal difference didn't stack up (think it was +2 in the end) so it is what you do with the ball that counts, not how much you have. A successful counter attack system could be our identity, or in the words of Graham Potter "you're just another Premier League side" that doesn't stand out without an identity, he said that while at Swansea. His Brighton side, meanwhile, do stand out, if anything for their xG underperformance. We lost 4-3 at Man City in May with only 18% of the ball. I think with 19% in 18/19 we beat them 2-1. 

 

"They realised he's done the job with no money" - Callum Wilson for £20m, Jamal Lewis for £15m. This summer, definitely the money's tight, but I'd argue the money that was supposed to be invested this summer was spent on Lewis. We're a case-by-case club so figured the link with Liverpool etc made him too great a prospect to ignore. 19/20 I'll not judge the £40m Joelinton or £17m Saint-Maximin because the pre-load was arguably done ahead of his appointment. Point stands, we've spent money. No real major outgoings too, which would have balanced the books. 

 

It's because we've got a load of deadwood that inflate our wage budget, but don't have good sell-on value. Which suggests our transfer model is flawed, we keep players on for too long. Gayle could have signed for West Brom for £15m or so but that didn't happen. Lejeune I guess is an example too but his age and injury record justified a lower fee.

 

 "He's having a go at teams he thinks he can beat" - Who can we beat? The promoted sides definitely and hopefully the surrounding teams. Anyone with ambition, no chance. We won the Championship in 2016/17, yet ambitious clubs like Leeds, Villa and Wolves have outspent and raced past us. We've been caught up in ourselves and now try to feel sorry while other clubs compete. Burnley I think are the only team I can think of with the same objective as us. I'd argue they're coming down with us too. Watford would be my other choice for the bottom 3 as it stands. West Ham and Everton were the 2 we did the double over. 6 teams we lost both games to. 

 

"and he's not shopping in the top shelf. He's shopping three stores down somewhere to try and get his players" - or in the case of this summer so far, he's not shopping full stop! 

 

"and if he keeps Newcastle in league, I think he's done a good job." - It is for Ashley. The fact he didn't try to tie down Rafa at the end of his contract shows he's happy for a cheaper alternative to achieve, materially the same thing. If we finish 8th and don't get Europe, that's the same as finishing 17th and staying up without the added placement bonus you'd have to shell out for finishing higher. Until a takeover, 17th is as good as 8th. Finish 7th and higher and I'd argue you're a little delusional (but you never know, West Ham fans might've felt similar about their club last year!) but that'd harm us as we don't have the squad depth and Ashley wouldn't want to invest to consolidate on that quality. 

 

For me, I can't have a 5th season of stagnation. 44, 45, 44, 45. While it's still PL football, knowing that we'll repeat last year and the year before and the year before brings little joy. No wonder we're bottom of the optimism table again. Target is 50 points but I don't think pending a Jones masterclass we'll come anywhere near. 

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31 minutes ago, nbthree3 said:

"He gets criticised for the team not playing attractive football" - we're the most passive side in the PL for a long time. PPDA is the highest average out of any team since at least 2014/15 according to Understat, 18 last season and 19 the season before. Meaning the opposition has on average 18.5 passes, combining both seasons, before we think about making a defensive action like a press. The median seems to be around 13, which is where we were previously since promotion. 

 

"but I think he deserves a new contract for working with Mike Ashley."  - if simply working with Ashley deserves a new contract, then any manager we've had since 2007 fits into that, I don't think Carver etc deserved a new contract 

 

"He's got his hands tied" - appreciate the uncertainty, especially over the takeover, but surely we have enough for free transfers? Townsend for example. Fraser last summer or even Hendrick even if fans haven't warmed to him. Debut was great admittedly! 

 

"He's a Newcastle fan." - vast majority on this forum are Newcastle fans. Graeme Jones is a Newcastle fan. We even have a few players who are Newcastle fans, it has no bearing on the success of a team. If anything, it makes the downfall harder because it's your own club you're affecting.

 

"They demand that the team goes at people but that's been squashed a little bit" - continue to be the most passive side in terms of style in at least 7 seasons. This season a small improvement on the last. Very lucky to have a natural goalscorer like Wilson, one of the small bright sparks about the new season. A fit Fraser and Wilson partnership starting would do wonders. 

 

"because they've been relegated and then [Rafa] Benitez took over and played 4-5-1." - Relegation resets the clock on progress so we'll compare from 2017/18 onwards. Rafa used a 4-4-1-1, and the more standard 4-4-2 on occasion, also a 4-2-3-1 , opting for a 3-4-3 in the 2nd half of 18/19 when Almiron signed. https://themastermindsite.com/2018/08/05/3-ways-to-play-in-a-4-5-1/ Different forms of a 4-5-1, but not a flat formation outright.

 

"you'd be able to sit back and let teams have 60 per cent possession, but they did." - Russell Martin infamously at MK Dons had his team with an average possession comparable to Man City yet their side were mid-table. Their goal difference didn't stack up (think it was +2 in the end) so it is what you do with the ball that counts, not how much you have. A successful counter attack system could be our identity, or in the words of Graham Potter "you're just another Premier League side" that doesn't stand out without an identity, he said that while at Swansea. His Brighton side, meanwhile, do stand out, if anything for their xG underperformance. We lost 4-3 at Man City in May with only 18% of the ball. I think with 19% in 18/19 we beat them 2-1. 

 

"They realised he's done the job with no money" - Callum Wilson for £20m, Jamal Lewis for £15m. This summer, definitely the money's tight, but I'd argue the money that was supposed to be invested this summer was spent on Lewis. We're a case-by-case club so figured the link with Liverpool etc made him too great a prospect to ignore. 19/20 I'll not judge the £40m Joelinton or £17m Saint-Maximin because the pre-load was arguably done ahead of his appointment. Point stands, we've spent money. No real major outgoings too, which would have balanced the books. 

 

It's because we've got a load of deadwood that inflate our wage budget, but don't have good sell-on value. Which suggests our transfer model is flawed, we keep players on for too long. Gayle could have signed for West Brom for £15m or so but that didn't happen. Lejeune I guess is an example too but his age and injury record justified a lower fee.

 

 "He's having a go at teams he thinks he can beat" - Who can we beat? The promoted sides definitely and hopefully the surrounding teams. Anyone with ambition, no chance. We won the Championship in 2016/17, yet ambitious clubs like Leeds, Villa and Wolves have outspent and raced past us. We've been caught up in ourselves and now try to feel sorry while other clubs compete. Burnley I think are the only team I can think of with the same objective as us. I'd argue they're coming down with us too. Watford would be my other choice for the bottom 3 as it stands. West Ham and Everton were the 2 we did the double over. 6 teams we lost both games to. 

 

"and he's not shopping in the top shelf. He's shopping three stores down somewhere to try and get his players" - or in the case of this summer so far, he's not shopping full stop! 

 

"and if he keeps Newcastle in league, I think he's done a good job." - It is for Ashley. The fact he didn't try to tie down Rafa at the end of his contract shows he's happy for a cheaper alternative to achieve, materially the same thing. If we finish 8th and don't get Europe, that's the same as finishing 17th and staying up without the added placement bonus you'd have to shell out for finishing higher. Until a takeover, 17th is as good as 8th. Finish 7th and higher and I'd argue you're a little delusional (but you never know, West Ham fans might've felt similar about their club last year!) but that'd harm us as we don't have the squad depth and Ashley wouldn't want to invest to consolidate on that quality. 

 

For me, I can't have a 5th season of stagnation. 44, 45, 44, 45. While it's still PL football, knowing that we'll repeat last year and the year before and the year before brings little joy. No wonder we're bottom of the optimism table again. Target is 50 points but I don't think pending a Jones masterclass we'll come anywhere near. 

Good post, but I wouldn’t even bother rebutting this shit the media and others peddle man, save your energy, time and sanity. They are not worth it, especially Bruce.

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3 hours ago, nbthree3 said:

"He gets criticised for the team not playing attractive football" - we're the most passive side in the PL for a long time. PPDA is the highest average out of any team since at least 2014/15 according to Understat, 18 last season and 19 the season before. Meaning the opposition has on average 18.5 passes, combining both seasons, before we think about making a defensive action like a press. The median seems to be around 13, which is where we were previously since promotion. 

 

"but I think he deserves a new contract for working with Mike Ashley."  - if simply working with Ashley deserves a new contract, then any manager we've had since 2007 fits into that, I don't think Carver etc deserved a new contract 

 

"He's got his hands tied" - appreciate the uncertainty, especially over the takeover, but surely we have enough for free transfers? Townsend for example. Fraser last summer or even Hendrick even if fans haven't warmed to him. Debut was great admittedly! 

 

"He's a Newcastle fan." - vast majority on this forum are Newcastle fans. Graeme Jones is a Newcastle fan. We even have a few players who are Newcastle fans, it has no bearing on the success of a team. If anything, it makes the downfall harder because it's your own club you're affecting.

 

"They demand that the team goes at people but that's been squashed a little bit" - continue to be the most passive side in terms of style in at least 7 seasons. This season a small improvement on the last. Very lucky to have a natural goalscorer like Wilson, one of the small bright sparks about the new season. A fit Fraser and Wilson partnership starting would do wonders. 

 

"because they've been relegated and then [Rafa] Benitez took over and played 4-5-1." - Relegation resets the clock on progress so we'll compare from 2017/18 onwards. Rafa used a 4-4-1-1, and the more standard 4-4-2 on occasion, also a 4-2-3-1 , opting for a 3-4-3 in the 2nd half of 18/19 when Almiron signed. https://themastermindsite.com/2018/08/05/3-ways-to-play-in-a-4-5-1/ Different forms of a 4-5-1, but not a flat formation outright.

 

"you'd be able to sit back and let teams have 60 per cent possession, but they did." - Russell Martin infamously at MK Dons had his team with an average possession comparable to Man City yet their side were mid-table. Their goal difference didn't stack up (think it was +2 in the end) so it is what you do with the ball that counts, not how much you have. A successful counter attack system could be our identity, or in the words of Graham Potter "you're just another Premier League side" that doesn't stand out without an identity, he said that while at Swansea. His Brighton side, meanwhile, do stand out, if anything for their xG underperformance. We lost 4-3 at Man City in May with only 18% of the ball. I think with 19% in 18/19 we beat them 2-1. 

 

"They realised he's done the job with no money" - Callum Wilson for £20m, Jamal Lewis for £15m. This summer, definitely the money's tight, but I'd argue the money that was supposed to be invested this summer was spent on Lewis. We're a case-by-case club so figured the link with Liverpool etc made him too great a prospect to ignore. 19/20 I'll not judge the £40m Joelinton or £17m Saint-Maximin because the pre-load was arguably done ahead of his appointment. Point stands, we've spent money. No real major outgoings too, which would have balanced the books. 

 

It's because we've got a load of deadwood that inflate our wage budget, but don't have good sell-on value. Which suggests our transfer model is flawed, we keep players on for too long. Gayle could have signed for West Brom for £15m or so but that didn't happen. Lejeune I guess is an example too but his age and injury record justified a lower fee.

 

 "He's having a go at teams he thinks he can beat" - Who can we beat? The promoted sides definitely and hopefully the surrounding teams. Anyone with ambition, no chance. We won the Championship in 2016/17, yet ambitious clubs like Leeds, Villa and Wolves have outspent and raced past us. We've been caught up in ourselves and now try to feel sorry while other clubs compete. Burnley I think are the only team I can think of with the same objective as us. I'd argue they're coming down with us too. Watford would be my other choice for the bottom 3 as it stands. West Ham and Everton were the 2 we did the double over. 6 teams we lost both games to. 

 

"and he's not shopping in the top shelf. He's shopping three stores down somewhere to try and get his players" - or in the case of this summer so far, he's not shopping full stop! 

 

"and if he keeps Newcastle in league, I think he's done a good job." - It is for Ashley. The fact he didn't try to tie down Rafa at the end of his contract shows he's happy for a cheaper alternative to achieve, materially the same thing. If we finish 8th and don't get Europe, that's the same as finishing 17th and staying up without the added placement bonus you'd have to shell out for finishing higher. Until a takeover, 17th is as good as 8th. Finish 7th and higher and I'd argue you're a little delusional (but you never know, West Ham fans might've felt similar about their club last year!) but that'd harm us as we don't have the squad depth and Ashley wouldn't want to invest to consolidate on that quality. 

 

For me, I can't have a 5th season of stagnation. 44, 45, 44, 45. While it's still PL football, knowing that we'll repeat last year and the year before and the year before brings little joy. No wonder we're bottom of the optimism table again. Target is 50 points but I don't think pending a Jones masterclass we'll come anywhere near. 

This is all classic Makem....relying on loans to scrape by in the league....when they don't come in it's basically a 12 point deduction.

 

They did their circling before being flushed, can't be more than a season or two before we do the same as we don't have an owner who'll actually make a change before it's too late

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3 hours ago, nbthree3 said:

"He gets criticised for the team not playing attractive football" - we're the most passive side in the PL for a long time. PPDA is the highest average out of any team since at least 2014/15 according to Understat, 18 last season and 19 the season before. Meaning the opposition has on average 18.5 passes, combining both seasons, before we think about making a defensive action like a press. The median seems to be around 13, which is where we were previously since promotion. 

 

"but I think he deserves a new contract for working with Mike Ashley."  - if simply working with Ashley deserves a new contract, then any manager we've had since 2007 fits into that, I don't think Carver etc deserved a new contract 

 

"He's got his hands tied" - appreciate the uncertainty, especially over the takeover, but surely we have enough for free transfers? Townsend for example. Fraser last summer or even Hendrick even if fans haven't warmed to him. Debut was great admittedly! 

 

"He's a Newcastle fan." - vast majority on this forum are Newcastle fans. Graeme Jones is a Newcastle fan. We even have a few players who are Newcastle fans, it has no bearing on the success of a team. If anything, it makes the downfall harder because it's your own club you're affecting.

 

"They demand that the team goes at people but that's been squashed a little bit" - continue to be the most passive side in terms of style in at least 7 seasons. This season a small improvement on the last. Very lucky to have a natural goalscorer like Wilson, one of the small bright sparks about the new season. A fit Fraser and Wilson partnership starting would do wonders. 

 

"because they've been relegated and then [Rafa] Benitez took over and played 4-5-1." - Relegation resets the clock on progress so we'll compare from 2017/18 onwards. Rafa used a 4-4-1-1, and the more standard 4-4-2 on occasion, also a 4-2-3-1 , opting for a 3-4-3 in the 2nd half of 18/19 when Almiron signed. https://themastermindsite.com/2018/08/05/3-ways-to-play-in-a-4-5-1/ Different forms of a 4-5-1, but not a flat formation outright.

 

"you'd be able to sit back and let teams have 60 per cent possession, but they did." - Russell Martin infamously at MK Dons had his team with an average possession comparable to Man City yet their side were mid-table. Their goal difference didn't stack up (think it was +2 in the end) so it is what you do with the ball that counts, not how much you have. A successful counter attack system could be our identity, or in the words of Graham Potter "you're just another Premier League side" that doesn't stand out without an identity, he said that while at Swansea. His Brighton side, meanwhile, do stand out, if anything for their xG underperformance. We lost 4-3 at Man City in May with only 18% of the ball. I think with 19% in 18/19 we beat them 2-1. 

 

"They realised he's done the job with no money" - Callum Wilson for £20m, Jamal Lewis for £15m. This summer, definitely the money's tight, but I'd argue the money that was supposed to be invested this summer was spent on Lewis. We're a case-by-case club so figured the link with Liverpool etc made him too great a prospect to ignore. 19/20 I'll not judge the £40m Joelinton or £17m Saint-Maximin because the pre-load was arguably done ahead of his appointment. Point stands, we've spent money. No real major outgoings too, which would have balanced the books. 

 

It's because we've got a load of deadwood that inflate our wage budget, but don't have good sell-on value. Which suggests our transfer model is flawed, we keep players on for too long. Gayle could have signed for West Brom for £15m or so but that didn't happen. Lejeune I guess is an example too but his age and injury record justified a lower fee.

 

 "He's having a go at teams he thinks he can beat" - Who can we beat? The promoted sides definitely and hopefully the surrounding teams. Anyone with ambition, no chance. We won the Championship in 2016/17, yet ambitious clubs like Leeds, Villa and Wolves have outspent and raced past us. We've been caught up in ourselves and now try to feel sorry while other clubs compete. Burnley I think are the only team I can think of with the same objective as us. I'd argue they're coming down with us too. Watford would be my other choice for the bottom 3 as it stands. West Ham and Everton were the 2 we did the double over. 6 teams we lost both games to. 

 

"and he's not shopping in the top shelf. He's shopping three stores down somewhere to try and get his players" - or in the case of this summer so far, he's not shopping full stop! 

 

"and if he keeps Newcastle in league, I think he's done a good job." - It is for Ashley. The fact he didn't try to tie down Rafa at the end of his contract shows he's happy for a cheaper alternative to achieve, materially the same thing. If we finish 8th and don't get Europe, that's the same as finishing 17th and staying up without the added placement bonus you'd have to shell out for finishing higher. Until a takeover, 17th is as good as 8th. Finish 7th and higher and I'd argue you're a little delusional (but you never know, West Ham fans might've felt similar about their club last year!) but that'd harm us as we don't have the squad depth and Ashley wouldn't want to invest to consolidate on that quality. 

 

For me, I can't have a 5th season of stagnation. 44, 45, 44, 45. While it's still PL football, knowing that we'll repeat last year and the year before and the year before brings little joy. No wonder we're bottom of the optimism table again. Target is 50 points but I don't think pending a Jones masterclass we'll come anywhere near. 

 

This is all fine but he gets criticised because he is shite.  He's been shite everywhere.

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https://theathletic.com/2146802/2021/08/03/jamal-lewis-turned-back-on-athletics-to-make-it-as-a-footballer-newcastle-challenge-wont-faze-him?source=user-shared-article 

 

Really good article in the Athletic about Jamal Lewis, this paragraph from it I found rather indicative of Bruce's coaching attention. Shocking.

 

"The problem was that, having been given the freedom to attack at Norwich, Lewis found himself in a Newcastle team who averaged the second-lowest possession in the Premier League. One source suggests Lewis would have benefitted from greater one-on-one attention during training, to aid his transition, but instead his education came during matches."

 

State of that.

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25 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

https://theathletic.com/2146802/2021/08/03/jamal-lewis-turned-back-on-athletics-to-make-it-as-a-footballer-newcastle-challenge-wont-faze-him?source=user-shared-article 

 

Really good article in the Athletic about Jamal Lewis, this paragraph from it I found rather indicative of Bruce's coaching attention. Shocking.

 

"The problem was that, having been given the freedom to attack at Norwich, Lewis found himself in a Newcastle team who averaged the second-lowest possession in the Premier League. One source suggests Lewis would have benefitted from greater one-on-one attention during training, to aid his transition, but instead his education came during matches."

 

State of that.

 

Ha ha ha ha was literally going to post exactly that ha ha ha!

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