PIF and RB Sports & Media

[Gazzaschicken]

7 hours ago, Sima said:

Letting Cabaye and Ba walk out of the door at the first opportunity was every bit as bad as the Carroll sale imo.

Yeah I moved away from the toon due to work and was coming back for matches but that's when I chucked my season ticket in when we sold cabaye. He was the only player ticking us over that season. 

 

That and getting beat off spurs on a freezing cold night where adebayor saluted the gallowgate after every goal

[Gazzaschicken]

It would be interesting to see what the government think when our trade partners saudi are trying to to fund a British business with sponsorship but it's being blocked or reduced. 

 

Smoke and mirrors just like the takeover I don't see it being stopped in the end and the big clubs will pave the way with regards to rules. 

 

The papers say the same size deals as Everton and Leeds etc I'd love to know who has quoted this in any rules etc and who has determined who is the same size as who in this whole situation. 

 

Also how would this work if we get relegated and sign massive deals in the championship, will they go to all this trouble knowing we won't be their problem in a year's time

[Sima]

37 minutes ago, Gazzaschicken said:

It would be interesting to see what the government think when our trade partners saudi are trying to to fund a British business with sponsorship but it's being blocked or reduced. 

 

Smoke and mirrors just like the takeover I don't see it being stopped in the end and the big clubs will pave the way with regards to rules. 

 

The papers say the same size deals as Everton and Leeds etc I'd love to know who has quoted this in any rules etc and who has determined who is the same size as who in this whole situation. 

 

Also how would this work if we get relegated and sign massive deals in the championship, will they go to all this trouble knowing we won't be their problem in a year's time

I’d imagine at that point they wouldn’t formally ‘invite’ us to join the Premier League should we finish in a promotion place.

[Gazzaschicken]

24 minutes ago, Sima said:

I’d imagine at that point they wouldn’t formally ‘invite’ us to join the Premier League should we finish in a promotion place.

Maybe but there would be hell on if that happened. 

 

[r0cafella]

Guys, I can assure you they’ve given up on trying to stop us

 

what we will see moving forward is more obstruction. They aren’t going to reject us from joining the league in the event of any promotion. 

[Gazzaschicken]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/newcastle-united-major-boost-worth-22460356

 

Well the Liverpool echo isn't reporting it as bad for Newcastle if anything they are reporting it as a danger to Liverpool. 

 

'But should Newcastle remain in English football's top tier then the new ruling does provide PIF with a platform to challenge the domination of the so-called 'big six' in years to come. In order to achieve that goal they need commercial revenues to be raised significantly, and being able to strike generous deals, albeit at 'fair market value' means that a whole host of new partners will likely come on board from industries that may not have previously been involved'

 

Sounds like theres no stopping it, you cant have a sponsor for 40m, OK we will have 2 at 20m then how's that? Yeah that's fine mate

[r0cafella]

5 minutes ago, Gazzaschicken said:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/newcastle-united-major-boost-worth-22460356

 

Well the Liverpool echo isn't reporting it as bad for Newcastle if anything they are reporting it as a danger to Liverpool. 

 

'But should Newcastle remain in English football's top tier then the new ruling does provide PIF with a platform to challenge the domination of the so-called 'big six' in years to come. In order to achieve that goal they need commercial revenues to be raised significantly, and being able to strike generous deals, albeit at 'fair market value' means that a whole host of new partners will likely come on board from industries that may not have previously been involved'

 

Sounds like theres no stopping it, you cant have a sponsor for 40m, OK we will have 2 at 20m then how's that? Yeah that's fine mate

Any club which isn’t named Manchester City will be worried. 

[LRD]

PL and the Football League are managed differently? Time for investors to buy a Championship club then get big sponsorships in before promotion. What can the PL do?

[r0cafella]

Just now, LRD said:

PL and the Football League are managed differently? Time for investors to buy a Championship club then get big sponsorships in before promotion. What can the PL do?

They can discount a set amount of the sponsorship deal towards the FFP quota. 
 

eg. 

 

Deal signed in champ ship worth 100m per season. 
 

Epl judge fair value to be 10m per season. 
 

thus 10m and not 100m would be the value used for FFP purposes. 

[Dr.Spaceman]

So in theory you could find yourself in a position where you gain promotion but are forced to weaken your playing squad due to FFP? Surely not, man.

[r0cafella]

Just now, Dr.Spaceman said:

So in theory you could find yourself in a position where you gain promotion but are forced to weaken your playing squad due to FFP? Surely not, man.

FFP is over a 3 year period so any club breaching would have time to correct. 

[Dr.Spaceman]

Oh, so you 3 years to weaken your squad. Great. The whole thing still makes no sense to me, it's ridiculously anti-competitive. Surely it's going to turn hordes of fans away from the sport altogether?

[Awaymag]

1st rule of Premier League club is that you dont challenge the 'Big 6'

 

2nd rule of Premier League club is that you dont challenge the 'Big 6'

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

Oh, so you 3 years to weaken your squad. Great. The whole thing still makes no sense to me, it's ridiculously anti-competitive. Surely it's going to turn hordes of fans away from the sport altogether?

Of course it is, FFP is designed to prevent other clubs progressing. It has nothing to do with fairness or any other such concept. 
 

its the cartel protecting itself. 
 

and no it won’t, because most people are stupid and fail to grasp the concepts above. 

[Thumbheed]

What's to stop PIF injecting cash into the club via an interest free loan like Ashley did? 

 

 

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, Thumbheed said:

What's to stop PIF injecting cash into the club via an interest free loan like Ashley did? 

 

 

The issue isn’t injecting money in to the company, the issue is what counts towards FFP spend. 
 

the reason the likes of Man city have to do these stupid sponsorships is because the ownership can’t just inject money and have of count towards FFP. 

[Dokko]

New offer in Saudi. Spend £5 a year in the new nufc shop and get £10 off your tax bill.

 

 

 

 

[bowlingcrofty]

There’s nothing to stop them opening a club store in Riyadh and giving every citizen a £200 “gift” on the condition they use it to buy all three shirts every season  

[James]

Just need to auction out some NFTs of the Premier League’s greatest goal scorer.

[Yorkie]

12 hours ago, The Bonk said:

 

@Yorkie with the resources at our disposal? Man, when I was a young teen and we were so close to winning it, that was special. To not exhaust our financial might against those who are looking to close up shop and keep the bulk of clubs out of their exclusive party is criminal. I couldn't give a toss how we win, but I want this club back to where we were 20+ years ago, which means outspending other clubs.

 

Who better to spoil the fucking party than us?   I just need to see a trophy lifted before I die.  

Leicester was special, I enjoyed that run as a neutral, but you have to be lying to yourself if you think they way they did it will ever be repeated. Hell yeah it was an example, but the odds and data will always point to resource, capital rich clubs that can field the best product on the pitch, managed by the best and run by top class executives. I totally get where you're coming from, however, Yorkers.  

 

 

I've delayed responding to this cos I've been trying to square it in my head.

 

I feel pretty conflicted about it; my posts yesterday were definitely my starting position, but having read more about what's happened and loads of fantastic posts in this thread, I'm definitely wavering on that. 

 

I have little to no time for the way Chelsea and Man City instantly became successful clubs thanks only to a generous benefactor plunging their unlimited wealth into them. City are a shiny, artificial, monochrome, FIFA Ultimate Team, trophy/talent-scooping brand who bear no resemblance to the 100-year-old club that existed before Abu Dhabi came along; I'm fearful of us losing our identity too (or rather not reclaiming it, after having it sucked away by the Ashley years). 

 

I don't know how Liverpool are backed but, of the crop of actual potential title-winners, I see them very differently. When Man City first won the league, they finished 8th. They finished 8th again when Leicester won it. It's a string of phenomenal signings (and sales) and obviously the appointment of Klopp that has cemented them among the absolute elite, when - if they'd got it wrong after Rodgers - they could have fallen further behind. So I suppose what I'm saying is, we don't have to 'do it like Leicester or West Ham,' maybe 'do it like Liverpool'. I realise we're a lot further behind than them at the start of their uptick, but my overall point is again that, sometimes, good decisions can trump unlimited wealth - plus you get to keep your identity. 

 

Conversely, the way the ESL chums are so desperate to be anti-competitive makes you want to just flip the table and say 'fuck it'. And fuck them; and everyone else for accepting their position and cutting their nose off to spite their face. Let's fuck em up. 

[TRon]

15 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

I've delayed responding to this cos I've been trying to square it in my head.

 

I feel pretty conflicted about it; my posts yesterday were definitely my starting position, but having read more about what's happened and loads of fantastic posts in this thread, I'm definitely wavering on that. 

 

I have little to no time for the way Chelsea and Man City instantly became successful clubs thanks only to a generous benefactor plunging their unlimited wealth into them. City are a shiny, artificial, monochrome trophy/talent-scooping brand who bear no resemblance to the 100-year-old club that existed before Abu Dhabi came along; I'm fearful of us losing our identity too (or rather not reclaiming it, after having it sucked away by the Ashley years). 

 

I don't know how Liverpool are backed but, of the crop of actual potential title-winners, I see them very differently. When Man City first won the league, they finished 8th. They finished 8th again when Leicester won it. It's a string of phenomenal signings (and sales) and obviously the appointment of Klopp that has cemented them among the absolute elite, when - if they'd got it wrong after Rodgers - they could have fallen further behind. So I suppose what I'm saying is, we don't have to 'do it like Leicester or West Ham,' maybe 'do it like Liverpool'. I realise we're a lot further behind than them at the start of their uptick, but my overall point is again that, sometimes, good decisions can trump unlimited wealth - plus you get to keep your identity. 

 

Conversely, the way the ESL chums are so desperate to be anti-competitive makes you want to just flip the table and say 'fuck it'. And fuck them; and everyone else for accepting their position and cutting their nose off to spite their face. Let's fuck em up. 

 

Well there's the thing: our identity has been buried for the best part of half a century under selfish or greedy owners. Before John Hall it was McKeag, after John Hall it was Ashley. 

 

 That we knocked back Man City's owners, and were finally bought by PIF is testament to what others think our identity is, and it's not a club struggling at the bottom of the PL. It's just a shame it's took foreign buyers to see that identity and give us it back. 

[r0cafella]

16 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

I've delayed responding to this cos I've been trying to square it in my head.

 

I feel pretty conflicted about it; my posts yesterday were definitely my starting position, but having read more about what's happened and loads of fantastic posts in this thread, I'm definitely wavering on that. 

 

I have little to no time for the way Chelsea and Man City instantly became successful clubs thanks only to a generous benefactor plunging their unlimited wealth into them. City are a shiny, artificial, monochrome trophy/talent-scooping brand who bear no resemblance to the 100-year-old club that existed before Abu Dhabi came along; I'm fearful of us losing our identity too (or rather not reclaiming it, after having it sucked away by the Ashley years). 

 

I don't know how Liverpool are backed but, of the crop of actual potential title-winners, I see them very differently. When Man City first won the league, they finished 8th. They finished 8th again when Leicester won it. It's a string of phenomenal signings (and sales) and obviously the appointment of Klopp that has cemented them among the absolute elite, when - if they'd got it wrong after Rodgers - they could have fallen further behind. So I suppose what I'm saying is, we don't have to 'do it like Leicester or West Ham,' maybe 'do it like Liverpool'. I realise we're a lot further behind than them at the start of their uptick, but my overall point is again that, sometimes, good decisions can trump unlimited wealth - plus you get to keep your identity. 

 

Conversely, the way the ESL chums are so desperate to be anti-competitive makes you want to just flip the table and say 'fuck it'. And fuck them; and everyone else for accepting their position and cutting their nose off to spite their face. Let's fuck em up. 

Yorkie, this is great thanks for the well thought out post.

 

I try to think about it like this:

 

In life your either moving forwards or backwards prior to Ashley we were one of the biggest clubs in the country. As well know during his tenure his tenure he totally hollowed us out and left a empty shell behind. If we would have continued on our pre Ashley trajectory we would likely have revenue matching Spurs and Arsenal. Given we are constrained now by FFP even if we went nuts and spent right up to the limit the time and revenue lost under Ashley would likely see us at best at par to where we should be IMO. 

[macphisto]

We can still go the way of Man City and keep our identity. We went under Keegan, within a few years, from nearly being relegated from the 2nd division to breaking the world transfer records for a defender and a forward. Not a single person in Newcastle a that time thought we had lost our identity or complained about the money we spent.

 

Keegan's teams weren't  built over time, they followed a model not too dissimilar to Man City and Chelsea. As I said above, we broke the world transfer records for a defender and forward during that time.

[manorpark]

18 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

In life your either moving forwards or backwards prior to Ashley we were one of the biggest clubs in the country. As well know during his tenure his tenure he totally hollowed us out and left a empty shell behind. If we would have continued on our pre Ashley trajectory we would likely have revenue matching Spurs and Arsenal. Given we are constrained now by FFP even if we went nuts and spent right up to the limit the time and revenue lost under Ashley would likely see us at best at par to where we should be IMO. 

 

Not sure about 'matching' Spurs and Arsenal, we were well ahead of them, and by now we would/should have been a very long way ahead of them . . .

 

[Guest HTT II]

13 minutes ago, macphisto said:

We can still go the way of Man City and keep our identity. We went under Keegan, within a few years, from nearly being relegated from the 2nd division to breaking the world transfer records for a defender and a forward. Not a single person in Newcastle a that time thought we had lost our identity or complained about the money we spent.

 

Keegan's teams weren't  built over time, they followed a model not too dissimilar to Man City and Chelsea. As I said above, we broke the world transfer records for a defender and forward during that time.

The money wasn’t pumped into the club by any one person though, the wealth of the club to enable it to rise in the way it did, first stemmed from the fans spending their money on anything NUFC related and sponsors and other commercial deals the club attracted due to the success of the team.