The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[LiquidAK]

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/21/saudi-arabia-mass-killings-migrants-yemen-border

 

A particularly horrendous read which got posted to Reddit today. Grim.

 

 

[Haz]

Yes the murder of migrants crossing the Yemen border ids an appalling atrocity. Coupled with the Prince's projected visit, it all leaves a nasty taste. 'Arry Redknapp reckons we the fans don't give a Monkeys who owns us as long as we're progressing and winning. 
 

This view would appear to be national. It is simply not true. The fan base has railed and shown discomfort of the Saudi association since day one. Yes it makes us uneasy but in the end, what do we do? Yes we are freed from the Ashley years but somehow it doesn't sit right to say the least. 

[Dr.Spaceman]

1 minute ago, Haz said:

Yes the murder of migrants crossing the Yemen border ids an appalling atrocity. Coupled with the Prince's projected visit, it all leaves a nasty taste. 'Arry Redknapp reckons we the fans don't give a Monkeys who owns us as long as we're progressing and winning. 
 

This view would appear to be national. It is simply not true. The fan base has railed and shown discomfort of the Saudi association since day one. Yes it makes us uneasy but in the end, what do we do? Yes we are freed from the Ashley years but somehow it doesn't sit right to say the least. 

 

I could not disagree with you more. Loads of people genuinely couldn't care less who owns us.

[AJ9]

2 hours ago, LiquidAK said:

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/21/saudi-arabia-mass-killings-migrants-yemen-border

 

A particularly horrendous read which got posted to Reddit today. Grim.

 

 

Saw that on the guardian. Horrendous really. Shameful from our overlords and I don’t mind being asked about it as a NUFC fan. We have to live with it. It’s deeply uncomfortable though.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by AJ9

[FLUMPO235]

Probably killed by weapons made in an anonymous looking warehouse somewhere in the uk too. 

[geordiesteve710]

1 hour ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

I could not disagree with you more. Loads of people genuinely couldn't care less who owns us.

 

I think it's fair to say there's a wide range of opinion across the fanbase. On this topic and on pretty much everything to do with the club. This is not peculiar because we're talking about a large group of people with a range of backgrounds, values and life experiences, but it's also why I tune out everytime I hear some bellwipe like Harry Redknapp start with "Newcastle fans all think..."

[geordiesteve710]

1 hour ago, AJ9 said:

Saw that on the guardian. Horrendous really. Shameful from our overlords and I don’t mind being asked about it as a NUFC fan. We have to live with it. It’s deeply uncomfortable though.

 

 

 

 

I'm happy for the club's association with the Saudis to be used to shine as much light as possible on atrocities like the one linked above. End of the day, if they don't want to be criticised for these things then they should stop fucking doing them!!!

 

Where I draw the line is when folk (often disingenuously) try to hold NUFC responsible for their actions. This isn't an equal or reciprocal partnership- PIF owns NUFC and is largely (at least 80% anyway) responsible for the performance of the football club. NUFC does not own any of PIF and has no influence over or responsibility for the actions of PIF or those who control it (ie MB.) I'm not saying that's what you were getting at, but I think it's something that in general gets lost sight of in all the discourse surrounding their ownership of the club.

[Bally21]

The way I feel about the Saudi ownership is that some of their actions are abhorrent to me, but I can seperate that from NUFC, I accept and respect not everyone can or does, but I can and I do. I also think a lot of people use it as a convenient stick to beat us with.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Bally21

[AJ9]

17 minutes ago, geordiesteve710 said:

 

I'm happy for the club's association with the Saudis to be used to shine as much light as possible on atrocities like the one linked above. End of the day, if they don't want to be criticised for these things then they should stop fucking doing them!!!

 

Where I draw the line is when folk (often disingenuously) try to hold NUFC responsible for their actions. This isn't an equal or reciprocal partnership- PIF owns NUFC and is largely (at least 80% anyway) responsible for the performance of the football club. NUFC does not own any of PIF and has no influence over or responsibility for the actions of PIF or those who control it (ie MB.) I'm not saying that's what you were getting at, but I think it's something that in general gets lost sight of in all the discourse surrounding their ownership of the club.

Yep, think that’s a sensible point.

[Dr.Spaceman]

1 hour ago, geordiesteve710 said:

 

I think it's fair to say there's a wide range of opinion across the fanbase. On this topic and on pretty much everything to do with the club. This is not peculiar because we're talking about a large group of people with a range of backgrounds, values and life experiences, but it's also why I tune out everytime I hear some bellwipe like Harry Redknapp start with "Newcastle fans all think..."

 

Absolutely.

[Disco]

4 hours ago, geordiesteve710 said:

I'm happy for the club's association with the Saudis to be used to shine as much light as possible on atrocities like the one linked above. End of the day, if they don't want to be criticised for these things then they should stop fucking doing them!!!

 

Where I draw the line is when folk (often disingenuously) try to hold NUFC responsible for their actions.

Couldn’t agree more. Particularly those who disingenuously try to link their abhorrent actions to Newcastle fans being accepting and part responsible for them. Which is an even bigger stretch than the club as if we have any say in what goes on.
 

It’ll be (morbidly) interesting to see the change in tone RE: Saudis when they have their royal visit by the press. On this issue alone, let’s face it executing refugees and migrants would have a fair degree of popularity here. Plus we’ve seen more pushback against fans and NUFC than we ever have the govt doing billions of pounds of business with the Saudis which sums it all up really. 

[Dr.Spaceman]

5 hours ago, Disco said:

Couldn’t agree more. Particularly those who disingenuously try to link their abhorrent actions to Newcastle fans being accepting and part responsible for them. Which is an even bigger stretch than the club as if we have any say in what goes on.
 

It’ll be (morbidly) interesting to see the change in tone RE: Saudis when they have their royal visit by the press. On this issue alone, let’s face it executing refugees and migrants would have a fair degree of popularity here. Plus we’ve seen more pushback against fans and NUFC than we ever have the govt doing billions of pounds of business with the Saudis which sums it all up really. 

 

That was my first thought too. I'm fairly sure several prominant right wing politicians have mentioned AK47's on our south coast beaches.

[Miercoles]

Well, that's it lads, it's time to unravel this international web of capitalist corruption.

 

I think the obvious place to start is by cleaning house at a football club.

 

No not all of them, are you crazy? We have to start small.

 

 

TBH, yes it's horrible, no I can't be fucked. My country went right on selling them billions of dollars worth of weapons after they were linked to the 9/11 attacks, and went and invaded two unrelated countries instead. We occupied them for decades, my entire adult life we've been at war with the countries not responsible because we're too deeply linked economically with KSA to bother them.

 

So no, I don't give a flying fuck now that my football team is connected to them, I'm already as upset about them as I'll ever get and it matters to literally no one outside of some moralistic posturing. I'm not going to put myself on an entertainment hunger strike to try to force my government, the UK government, and world football to start acting morally for the first time ever.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Miercoles

[TRon]

18 hours ago, geordiesteve710 said:

 

I'm happy for the club's association with the Saudis to be used to shine as much light as possible on atrocities like the one linked above. End of the day, if they don't want to be criticised for these things then they should stop fucking doing them!!!

 

Where I draw the line is when folk (often disingenuously) try to hold NUFC responsible for their actions. This isn't an equal or reciprocal partnership- PIF owns NUFC and is largely (at least 80% anyway) responsible for the performance of the football club. NUFC does not own any of PIF and has no influence over or responsibility for the actions of PIF or those who control it (ie MB.) I'm not saying that's what you were getting at, but I think it's something that in general gets lost sight of in all the discourse surrounding their ownership of the club.

 

Couldn't agree more.

[Disco]

 

[OCOCOL]

16 minutes ago, Disco said:

https://x.com/ettifaq_en/status/1694324705933561888?s=46&t=yPbd9G8BOq0rWw0jv09aDg

Be interesting to see how their “drum bangers” take this.  

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by OCOCOL

[oldtype]

On 22/08/2023 at 12:30, geordiesteve710 said:

 

I think it's fair to say there's a wide range of opinion across the fanbase. On this topic and on pretty much everything to do with the club. This is not peculiar because we're talking about a large group of people with a range of backgrounds, values and life experiences, but it's also why I tune out everytime I hear some bellwipe like Harry Redknapp start with "Newcastle fans all think..."

I would say the proportion of the NUFC fanbase that doesn't care about human rights abuses by the Saudi regime is roughly similar to the proportion of the general public that doesn't, so I don't see why anyone is surprised. It's an unfortunate reality of the world that for the vast majority, immense human suffering in a faraway land just doesn't register.

 

I could easily see myself boycotting the club had the Saudis had come in to replace a relatively "normal" owner who I had no trouble supporting. As it is, they are replacing Mike fucking Ashley, so my discomfort with Saudi ownership is drowned out by the sheer relief and euphoria of having the club being run with competence and good intentions (in a footballing sense) after fifteen years of pure pain. I will allow myself a few years of enjoying having a football club again before I allow my concerns about our new owners to come to the fore. It's a human failing on my part and I acknowledge that.

 

The most cynical part of my brain even wonders if this was part of the calculus when they targeted us as the club to buy. We are the one fanbase among Premier League clubs that has suffered too much at the hand of our past owner to ask too many questions about our new ones.

 

[HaydnNUFC]

30 minutes ago, Disco said:

 

 

Two wrongs and that, but I did chuckle.

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by HaydnNUFC

[Vinny Green Balls]

The Saudis have committed all sorts of atrocities in Yemen in the last five years. They’ve also created a massive humanitarian crisis in the form of mass starvation and a cholera epidemic as a result of the blockade. Just a friendly reminder what awful pieces of shit run the country.

[Miercoles]

I mean, California requires its state agencies to buy their furniture from the state prison authority. Essentially slave labor.

 

I'm not trying to justify anything or say what about. I guess I'm just tired, and everything everywhere is shit.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Miercoles

[TheBrownBottle]

2 hours ago, Miercoles said:

I mean, California requires its state agencies to buy their furniture from the state prison authority. Essentially slave labor.

 

I'm not trying to justify anything or say what about. I guess I'm just tired, and everything everywhere is shit.

 

 

 

Honestly, if the US Treasury buys us then it is relevant.  But until they do, it is whatabouttery

[triggs]

2 hours ago, Miercoles said:

I mean, California requires its state agencies to buy their furniture from the state prison authority. Essentially slave labor.

 

I'm not trying to justify anything or say what about. I guess I'm just tired, and everything everywhere is shit.

 

 

 

What a comparison

[oldtype]

3 hours ago, Miercoles said:

I mean, California requires its state agencies to buy their furniture from the state prison authority. Essentially slave labor.

 

I'm not trying to justify anything or say what about. I guess I'm just tired, and everything everywhere is shit.

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty confident that none of the shit that goes on in the California prison system, utterly deplorable as it is, is nearly equivalent to the sort of abuses that occur in whatever excuse for a penal system the Saudis have.

[jack j]

8 hours ago, OCOCOL said:

Be interesting to see how their “drum bangers” take this.  

 

 

 

Yet to see a more cringeworthy set of fans than them Palace lot behind that goal

Add in that HLTCO on twitter I don't think I want any other club to fly down the divisions more.

Be back to getting 10k before we know it

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by jack j

[TheBrownBottle]

2 hours ago, oldtype said:

 

I'm pretty confident that none of the shit that goes on in the California prison system, utterly deplorable as it is, is nearly equivalent to the sort of abuses that occur in whatever excuse for a penal system the Saudis have.

KSA literally does not have a codified penal system.  The police and the judiciary get to decide if something is a ‘crime’, and how that ‘crime’ should be punished.  And of course it’s a dictatorship, so you’re not getting a vote to change it.

 

I personally find pampered people in the west desperately trying to make equivalences tiresome.  I can’t imagine a system more open to human rights abuses than that in KSA.