Eddie Howe

[The College Dropout]

I think this is more on Eddie than the players. You would need Rice, prime Kante and Bellingham in there to compete against the Villa 4 today.  

[Kid Icarus]

These things always end up having a countermove against them. Box midfields are in fashion now, but much like the 353 from a couple of years back, they'll get figured out.

[80]

1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said:

If he'd got it spot on, our players were still nowhere near where they needed to be. It's hard to know what the best way to approach this was even in hindsight 

Agreed about the onfield tactics.

 

If we try hard enough to blame Howe, we can go back to the training prior to the game, and the physical and psychological preparation. But this was a global defeat today - we did very little right with the ball, everything was half a yard off or half a second late.

 

Villa, meanwhile, had the individual qualities to make use of the tactical advantages. They were impressive. Today makes Gerrard look like an even bigger plum.

 

We're used to being the fittest on the pitch but we weren't today.

[TRon]

3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I think this is more on Eddie than the players. You would need Rice, prime Kante and Bellingham in there to compete against the Villa 4 today.  

 

Midfield is about more than just the midfielders at this level. If the opposition have more pace and dynamism from the full backs that can also lead to overload. I felt our midfield trio were often left isolated as our own full backs had their hands full just dealing with their pace down the flanks.

[Aiston]

Got it very wrong today.

 

Confident he'll make the right changes for Spurs though.

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Midfield is about more than just the midfielders at this level. If the opposition have more pace and dynamism from the full backs that can also lead to overload. I felt our midfield trio were often left isolated as our own full backs had their hands full just dealing with their pace down the flanks.

Young wasn’t getting that far forward.  They have a lopsided system like ours. 
 

They played a midfield 5 of Buendia, McGinn, Ramsay, Luiz, Dendocker.  All of which want to get on the ball centrally. Playing 3 in there we were always going to struggle. Trippier kept getting dragged in by the wide 10 because there wasn’t a central midfielder to pick them up. We needed the wide players far more deep and engaged in their defending.  Or a different shake entirely. 

[Gallowgate Toon]

One of the best things about him is that he'll be calm. That can be annoying when you see we were poor in the first half last weekend and you personally want a proactive change today (I didn't think we were bad against West Ham first half either, we just sat off for a bit after going 2 up with a game a few days away in mind) but consistency is a big factor in what has got us into this position so far.

 

Even the best teams in the division can have very off days. Today will have been a combination, there's an overreliance on saying it's only tactical but that's also a battle he lost today.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Gallowgate Toon

[Wilson]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

I think this is more on Eddie than the players. You would need Rice, prime Kante and Bellingham in there to compete against the Villa 4 today.  

 

Bit dramatic like. 

[Ace]

I love Eddie’s and his work here is fantastic but it would be hypocritical to ignore when he gets it wrong and just praise when he gets it right.

 

I think though a lot of players underperformed we set up naively as the way Villa set up is to crowd the middle and play it up directly to Watkins.

 

Our set up with a high defensive line helped them out with this and put a lot of pressure on our defence particularly the right hand side. They also set the trap to press Burn a lot which we kept falling for (he should have just got rid).

 

Easy to say with hindsight but moving to a 4-4-1-1 with Gordon being told to get on Luiz might have helped. 

[madras]

3 minutes ago, Ace said:

I love Eddie’s and his work here is fantastic but it would be hypocritical to ignore when he gets it wrong and just praise when he gets it right.

 

I think though a lot of players underperformed we set up naively as the way Villa set up is to crowd the middle and play it up directly to Watkins.

 

Our set up with a high defensive line helped them out with this and put a lot of pressure on our defence particularly the right hand side. They also set the trap to press Burn a lot which we kept falling for (he should have just got rid).

 

Easy to say with hindsight but moving to a 4-4-1-1 with Gordon being told to get on Luiz might have helped. 

Point me to where these pearls of wisdom were pre 1230 

[Gallowgate Toon]

Howe's 'be brave' approach has got us to where we are, it'd be weird for him to change it. He thinks we can compete a certain way and one loss won't change that in his head.

 

Arsenal was the only game I can really think of where we actually changed after getting battered for a bit. 

[Ace]

12 minutes ago, madras said:

Point me to where these pearls of wisdom were pre 1230 

Do you know what hindsight is? 
 

I don’t think even the most negative of us could have had us playing that badly. The only thing I said pregame was how athletic they are and we didn’t deal with it 

[midds]

He's got a big decision to make this week - stick or twist. 

 

Stick with what's got us 3rd in the league, best defensive record, clean sheets etc or risk it and try to catch Spurs on the hop in the biggest League game of the season. Fully expect Spurs to prepare for the full court press, 433, Trippier bombing on, Burn edging central when he sees it happen and using the 'extra man' to create havoc. 

 

I just worry that some have sussed us out and know exactly how to counter what we do virtually every game. Does he go with the regular formation and risk being predictable, thus playing into Spurs' hands? Or does he change a successful system and have the element of surprise on Spurs and start with Wilson and Isak? Big week. Big decisions and if he gets them right we're virtually home and hosed. Get them wrong...

[SUPERTOON]

Don’t expect any major changes, if Wilson starts it will be for Isak imo.

[Scotty66]

5 hours ago, STM said:

I'd certainly like Howe to explore 3 at the back for games like today.

 

                       Pope

 

        Schar     Botman    Burn

Trippier                                 Targett

 

         Willock  Bruno  Joelinton 

 

                   Isak   Wilson

 

Would have caused them problems.

 

This looks absolutely solid to me and very very similar to how we already play in possession with the added benifit of two strikers who can play alongside each other or one in front and one behind. Even Murphy could play in Targett's position. 

 

Would really like to see this after Howe tweaking it to perfection. With hindsight this would have worked well against the aerial bombardment of a team like Brentford first half and also a team like Man City who can pin us back but we hit them fast on the break.

[The College Dropout]

Spurs have played that 5 at the back even without Conte I believe.  Spurs are doing Spurs.  If they are on job we are susceptible to the balls through to Son.  But we are more likely to steam roller them out the game.  
 

It’s Brighton that have that 2 man defensive pivot. Direct balls behind the defensive line into Mitoma and March with athletic strikers.  
 

a lot of the other teams don’t have the personnel to try the Villa route.  

[The College Dropout]

I think we are better off ourselves having a double pivot in midfield sometimes rather than a back 5.  
 

A back 5 means a slow CB still has to come out and engage while vacating a space. A double pivot has central midfield Players that can drop into half spaces defensively quicker. Or bring our wingers right back to form a back 6. 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by The College Dropout

[STM]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

I think we are better off ourselves having a double pivot in midfield sometimes rather than a back 5.  
 

A back 5 means a slow CB still has to come out and engage while vacating a space. A double pivot has central midfield Players that can drop into half spaces defensively quicker. Or bring our wingers right back to form a back 6. 

 

 

 

 

While I agree. I don't think we have the players for a double pivot.

 

Longstaff is a grafter, Joelinton is good as an 8 but not convinced as a 6, Willock is a firm no.

 

If we had a Neves etc, yep.

[80]

39 minutes ago, midds said:

He's got a big decision to make this week - stick or twist. 

 

Stick with what's got us 3rd in the league, best defensive record, clean sheets etc or risk it and try to catch Spurs on the hop in the biggest League game of the season. Fully expect Spurs to prepare for the full court press, 433, Trippier bombing on, Burn edging central when he sees it happen and using the 'extra man' to create havoc. 

 

I just worry that some have sussed us out and know exactly how to counter what we do virtually every game. Does he go with the regular formation and risk being predictable, thus playing into Spurs' hands? Or does he change a successful system and have the element of surprise on Spurs and start with Wilson and Isak? Big week. Big decisions and if he gets them right we're virtually home and hosed. Get them wrong...

Two good things:

 

1. Howe has always come through these moments well in the past.

 

2. Of all decent teams, Spurs, with their managerial flux, are the least likely to devise a canny way of paralysing our system. I'd be much more worried about Brighton.

[The College Dropout]

17 minutes ago, STM said:

 

While I agree. I don't think we have the players for a double pivot.

 

Longstaff is a grafter, Joelinton is good as an 8 but not convinced as a 6, Willock is a firm no.

 

If we had a Neves etc, yep.

Perhaps. I think Longstaff and Bruno would be the best double pivot we have. I think Longstaff starts next week to have more protection in that inside right position.  Probably goes Joe over Willock at LCM for the defensive protection.  

[STM]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

Perhaps. I think Longstaff and Bruno would be the best double pivot we have. I think Longstaff starts next week to have more protection in that inside right position.  Probably goes Joe over Willock at LCM for the defensive protection.  

 

I just think he sees this as our best team:

 

         Longstaff   Bruno  Willock

Miggy             Isak/CW       Joelinton 

[The College Dropout]

I think the team that started Man Utd is the strongest one we have but with Miggy on the right. Joe or Joel depending on the fixture. 

[RodneyCisse]

I think part of today was how good Villa were plus Gordon being frankly useless against an old Young.

[The Prophet]

The only thing with Spurs is that it does feel like we struggle v three at the back. Again, Son and Kulu will try to suck the full backs in field for Emerson and Perisic to bomb on.

[Ace]

1 hour ago, midds said:

He's got a big decision to make this week - stick or twist. 

 

Stick with what's got us 3rd in the league, best defensive record, clean sheets etc or risk it and try to catch Spurs on the hop in the biggest League game of the season. Fully expect Spurs to prepare for the full court press, 433, Trippier bombing on, Burn edging central when he sees it happen and using the 'extra man' to create havoc. 

 

I just worry that some have sussed us out and know exactly how to counter what we do virtually every game. Does he go with the regular formation and risk being predictable, thus playing into Spurs' hands? Or does he change a successful system and have the element of surprise on Spurs and start with Wilson and Isak? Big week. Big decisions and if he gets them right we're virtually home and hosed. Get them wrong...

I think our standard formation in theory is a good fit against Spurs especially considering recent form.
 

Personally I’d start Miggy and Willock as our wide men against spurs then bring Maxi, Wilson and maybe Gordon in vs Everton and Southampton where we may need to break them down so need more players further forward.

 

Arsenal will be a tough game so a similar formula to spurs might be best and then for Leeds/Leicester who are a bit more open than Southampton/Everton you could go with a mix of both line ups.

 

The game where I think we need to change our system is against Brighton as IMO they are a better version of Villa overall. Go for a 4-4-1-1 and catch them on the break