Eddie Howe

[Menace]

He's earned plenty of credit, it would take a lot for me to personally turn on him. Have no idea how people can be so quick to question a guy who has given us some of the best moments since SBR days all within the span of 18 months. We still have Ritchie/Dummett in our 25 squad team btw. Bad day in the office and he'll learn from it. I honestly don't think many managers in world football would have achieved what he did last season.

[Vinny Green Balls]

3 hours ago, Theregulars said:

I categorically disagree that it's the most important context needed. The most important contexts, for my money, are the context of how the team plays and the significant investment in the playing squad. Despite you phrasing it as fact, it's an opinion, and we differ. 

 

When you watch us regularly and in detail, you see a team with no fear who outrun, outmuscle, outduel etc others. My question is, therefore, why does that disappear (in whole or in part) in some high-pressure matches / matches against the better sides? Clearly, against squads which are more expensive than ours and longer in the tooth as established teams than ours, we can perform this way (Manchester United at home, Spurs home and away, Manchester City home last year) - so what I don't understand is twhy, in certain matches, that identity / culture / ethos etc goes missing. In my opinion, it went missing in the last two matches under instruction from the manager to some extent (we were so reserved and timid in both games). It went missing in the cup final because, in my view, the occasion was too big for the manage and squad. 

 

So, politely, calling people "willfully obtuse" and context-ignorant because they disagree with you is cheap and lazy in my view. I don't think Eddie Howe is faultless. I think he has done an excellent job but, when he does something or presides over or has some degree of responsibility for a situation in which the outcome is so obviously undesirable, is it not fair to ask a question or make a criticism? You come across as quite didactic: "if you don't agree with me then you're ignorant", essentially. 

It's not lazy. Your argument is flimsy and yet you are relentlessly going on about it. A few on here put it much better than I did, and until now, you absolutely ignored it. Until he has a squad on their level, it's ridiculous to criticize his mixed record against them. 

 

And I've said this many times before, but I find it particularly irritating when someone's defense is essentially, "It's a forum. We are allowed to have different opinions."  I find that it is often a sign that they have a pretty weak argument when they bust out the being oppressed card.

 

And I may come across as didactic, but you are coming across as if chatGPT just developed a shred of quasi-sentience.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Vinny Green Balls

[Matt1892]

I see it the opposite way in that there are some on here who see Howe and the club above criticism, it was only a week ago people were getting laid in to for having the audacity to say the transfer window hasn’t been 10/10.

 

As a manager he was given a huge amount of credit for the good work he has done since taking over the club; however the shambles that was the Liverpool result is on him.

 

 

[Vinny Green Balls]

2 hours ago, gbandit said:

While I agree with anyone calling out people who are being critical of Howe generally, I think in-game specifics are obviously fine to highlight. I think Howe himself would set us up differently against ten men if we were to replay the game as we did get complacent. Is Howe an amazing manager, yes, has he improved every player in the squad, yes. Will we win something with him if he’s here in two years, yes.

 

Kaka, I think you have too much of a tendency to generalise, “you lot” doesn’t really capture the fact that most of us on here have the same opinion that he’s amazing 

Thankfully, the lot he is referring to is something like 3 people right now, which is not too bad at all.  Making them out to be a significant number discredits the forum in my opinion.

[Vinny Green Balls]

6 minutes ago, Matt1892 said:

I see it the opposite way in that there are some on here who see Howe and the club above criticism, it was only a week ago people were getting laid in to for having the audacity to say the transfer window hasn’t been 10/10.

 

As a manager he was given a huge amount of credit for the good work he has done since taking over the club; however the shambles that was the Liverpool result is on him.

 

 

Many if not most of us have criticized him for the Liverpool match. I said that he fucked up about five time now. It's the fact two people have implied that we need a better manager, and the third is complaining about his mixed results against the very top teams. This is why we are excoriating them. I find it confounding that a few on here miss that and criticize us for worshipping Howe.

[andyc35i]

If Barnes makes the simple pass to Wilson for 2-0, the tactics and substitutions are a master stroke and Eddie is hailed as a king again. We obviously got some things tactically wrong in the game that cost us, but I know that players and staff we’ve now got at our club will learn from this and will go again 

[Matt1892]

12 minutes ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

Many if not most of us have criticized him for the Liverpool match. I said that he fucked up about five time now. It's the fact two people have implied that we need a better manager, and the third is complaining about his mixed results against the very top teams. This is why we are excoriating them. I find it confounding that a few on here miss that and criticize us for worshipping Howe.

I haven’t read through the whole thread but there are extremes on both sides.

 

Most sane people sit in the middle ground where he rightly gets both praise for doing well and criticism when he makes mistakes.

 

He is not infallible and time will tell if he has the ability to match where the owner’s ambitions are.

[Vinny Green Balls]

1 minute ago, Matt1892 said:

I haven’t read through the whole thread but there are extremes on both sides.

 

Most sane people sit in the middle ground where he rightly gets both praise for doing well and criticism when he makes mistakes.

 

He is not infallible and time will tell if he has the ability to match where the owner’s ambitions are.

Most of your "extremes" on the other side admitted that he fucked up

[Matt1892]

1 minute ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

Most of your "extremes" on the other side admitted that he fucked up

Most suggests a small minority don’t, which is on par with those saying he needs to be replaced.

 

For the majority in the middle it will be how he responds to this setback and learns from it going forward. That we will find out in time.

[The Prophet]

I have no doubt he'll learn a lot from yesterday, but he didn't really do loads wrong or "fuck up".  Granted there were tactical tweaks he could have made to disrupt Liverpool's shape.

[Displayname]

38 minutes ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

Many if not most of us have criticized him for the Liverpool match. I said that he fucked up about five time now. It's the fact two people have implied that we need a better manager, and the third is complaining about his mixed results against the very top teams. This is why we are excoriating them. I find it confounding that a few on here miss that and criticize us for worshipping Howe.

Do we really have pages upon pages with posts blasting the fans reaction to Eddie Howe because two people implied we need a better manager and one guy complaining about results against big teams? Quite the overreaction then.

[Coffee_Johnny]

21 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

I have no doubt he'll learn a lot from yesterday, but he didn't really do loads wrong or "fuck up".  Granted there were tactical tweaks he could have made to disrupt Liverpool's shape.

Sometimes subs work sometimes they don’t. Barnes finds Wilson in the box instead of being caught in two minds and it is a different story. He’ll have learned from this, but doesn’t mean he won’t do the same again. 

[Optimistic Nut]

1 hour ago, Matt1892 said:

I see it the opposite way in that there are some on here who see Howe and the club above criticism, it was only a week ago people were getting laid in to for having the audacity to say the transfer window hasn’t been 10/10.

 

As a manager he was given a huge amount of credit for the good work he has done since taking over the club; however the shambles that was the Liverpool result is on him.

 

 

 

Shambles FFS. It was disappointing at worst. 

[Maineblue]

2 hours ago, Abacus said:

 

And fair enough, I probably over-egged the hanging on part a bit there. I did feel that we'd played ourselves back into the game towards the end even if our efforts were a bit powder - puff in the end.

 

I think most teams go to the Emirates expecting a hiding especially us coming from where we've started from, and I agree that we showed too much respect rather than going for it, certainly in the first half. No question that you deserved to win it. I suppose my point is that this doesn't represent any fundamental problem with Howe, just something to take on the chin and learn from.

 

 

 

Agree, it’s Etihad btw just saying 

[Ronaldo]

36 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

I have no doubt he'll learn a lot from yesterday, but he didn't really do loads wrong or "fuck up".  Granted there were tactical tweaks he could have made to disrupt Liverpool's shape.

We played against 10 men for a full half of football and conceded two while scoring none. That can only be the result of a monumental failure to set up the team properly.

 

He fucked up, very badly, for the first time during his period here. We’re still behind him and we move on.

[Vinny Green Balls]

19 minutes ago, Displayname said:

Do we really have pages upon pages with posts blasting the fans reaction to Eddie Howe because two people implied we need a better manager and one guy complaining about results against big teams? Quite the overreaction then.

a bit more than that, dude. I was probably understating. those few have pushed the exact same weak argument over and over. 

[The College Dropout]

18 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

Shambles FFS. It was disappointing at worst. 

1-1 would’ve been disappointing. 1-2 is a crumble. 
 

I rate Liverpool higher than most on here.  But after going 1-0 and then down to 10 men. We should’ve won no excuses. A draw wouldve been bad. Losing is a black mark for Howe and he will know it. 

8 minutes ago, Ronaldo said:

We played against 10 men for a full half of football and conceded two while scoring none. That can only be the result of a monumental failure to set up the team properly.

 

He fucked up, very badly, for the first time during his period here. We’re still behind him and we move on.

Aye. 
 

Plenty of credit in the bank.  It’s early but that should be some type of nadir that we will recover from.  After the Brighton game we need to put some W’s together. Winning away at Brighton would be a fantastic start but that’s a free hit for me. 
 

Im behind him 100% as are 99.9% of fans 

[Vinny Green Balls]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

1-1 would’ve been disappointing. 1-2 is a crumble. 
 

I rate Liverpool higher than most on here.  But after going 1-0 and then down to 10 men. We should’ve won no excuses. A draw wouldve been bad. Losing is a black mark for Howe and he will know it. 

Aye. 
 

Plenty of credit in the bank.  It’s early but that should be some type of nadir that we will recover from.  After the Brighton game we need to put some W’s together. Winning away at Brighton would be a fantastic start but that’s a free hit for me. 
 

Im behind him 100% as are 99.9% of fans 

well said both of you

[The College Dropout]

What’s funny is I missed the capitulation. Stopped watching at about 84 minutes.  Came back.  1-1. Came back. 1-2. 

[KaKa]

9 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

What’s funny is I missed the capitulation. Stopped watching at about 84 minutes.  Came back.  1-1. Came back. 1-2. 

 

So it was your fault! 

[The Prophet]

9 minutes ago, Ronaldo said:

We played against 10 men for a full half of football and conceded two while scoring none. That can only be the result of a monumental failure to set up the team properly.

 

He fucked up, very badly, for the first time during his period here. We’re still behind him and we move on.

 

He certainly could have been more proactive. He tried to change personnel and tuck the full backs in, but with Gakpo and Salah dropping in they ended up wrestling control in the middle of the park. It probably required a more innovative change.

A "fuck up" suggests he did something fundamentally wrong. It discounts other factors such as the quality of the opposition, the players on-field decision making and good old fashioned luck.

 

We should never of lost the game from the position we were in, but it was a bit of everything that contributed to an aberration of a finish, rather than a massive error from anyone in particular.

[Theregulars]

33 minutes ago, Ronaldo said:

We played against 10 men for a full half of football and conceded two while scoring none. That can only be the result of a monumental failure to set up the team properly.

 

He fucked up, very badly, for the first time during his period here. We’re still behind him and we move on.

So @Vinny Green Ballslikes this point but not mine? Seems inconsistent.

[mighty__mag]

Are the majority of those still blaming Eddie UK based or overseas?

 

I'm really curious. 

 

I'm only curious because I know in a lot of overseas sport, there's a lot of result driven fans, that's all that seems to matter to them, the bigger picture doesn't seem to register. 

 

As Brummie put it, zoom out a bit.

[Theregulars]

2 hours ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

It's not lazy. Your argument is flimsy and yet you are relentlessly going on about it. A few on here put it much better than I did, and until now, you absolutely ignored it. Until he has a squad on their level, it's ridiculous to criticize his mixed record against them. 

 

And I've said this many times before, but I find it particularly irritating when someone's defense is essentially, "It's a forum. We are allowed to have different opinions."  I find that it is often a sign that they have a pretty weak argument when they bust out the being oppressed card.

 

And I may come across as didactic, but you are coming across as if chatGPT just developed a shred of quasi-sentience.

 

 

 

OK - I'm going to try once more. 

 

As I have acknowledged multiple times - he does not have a squad as good as the other teams yet. That does not automatically exempt him from criticism when it's evident that he has contributed somehow to a negative outcome. 

 

Maybe people keep expressing their freedom to disagree because you keep ramming shit arguments down their throat without any space allowed for disagreement with you? A sign that it's not a weak argument is the amount of people in this thread saying that he got it badly wrong on Sunday. 

 

And I don't think I'm coming across like ChatGPT - my arguments are set out and explained in a logical, sequential and analytical way. ChatGPT can't do that. 

 

It's absolutely OK to have your views challenged - try not to get so upset about it. 

[astraguy]

fuck me this is still going,Get a fucking grip like sir bobby all over again stop ruining the good things we have and go tug yourself off ffs or log off for good