Eddie Howe

[Displayname]

38 minutes ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

Many if not most of us have criticized him for the Liverpool match. I said that he fucked up about five time now. It's the fact two people have implied that we need a better manager, and the third is complaining about his mixed results against the very top teams. This is why we are excoriating them. I find it confounding that a few on here miss that and criticize us for worshipping Howe.

Do we really have pages upon pages with posts blasting the fans reaction to Eddie Howe because two people implied we need a better manager and one guy complaining about results against big teams? Quite the overreaction then.

[Coffee_Johnny]

21 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

I have no doubt he'll learn a lot from yesterday, but he didn't really do loads wrong or "fuck up".  Granted there were tactical tweaks he could have made to disrupt Liverpool's shape.

Sometimes subs work sometimes they don’t. Barnes finds Wilson in the box instead of being caught in two minds and it is a different story. He’ll have learned from this, but doesn’t mean he won’t do the same again. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Matt1892 said:

I see it the opposite way in that there are some on here who see Howe and the club above criticism, it was only a week ago people were getting laid in to for having the audacity to say the transfer window hasn’t been 10/10.

 

As a manager he was given a huge amount of credit for the good work he has done since taking over the club; however the shambles that was the Liverpool result is on him.

 

 

 

Shambles FFS. It was disappointing at worst. 

[Maineblue]

2 hours ago, Abacus said:

 

And fair enough, I probably over-egged the hanging on part a bit there. I did feel that we'd played ourselves back into the game towards the end even if our efforts were a bit powder - puff in the end.

 

I think most teams go to the Emirates expecting a hiding especially us coming from where we've started from, and I agree that we showed too much respect rather than going for it, certainly in the first half. No question that you deserved to win it. I suppose my point is that this doesn't represent any fundamental problem with Howe, just something to take on the chin and learn from.

 

 

 

Agree, it’s Etihad btw just saying 

[Ronaldo]

36 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

I have no doubt he'll learn a lot from yesterday, but he didn't really do loads wrong or "fuck up".  Granted there were tactical tweaks he could have made to disrupt Liverpool's shape.

We played against 10 men for a full half of football and conceded two while scoring none. That can only be the result of a monumental failure to set up the team properly.

 

He fucked up, very badly, for the first time during his period here. We’re still behind him and we move on.

[Vinny Green Balls]

19 minutes ago, Displayname said:

Do we really have pages upon pages with posts blasting the fans reaction to Eddie Howe because two people implied we need a better manager and one guy complaining about results against big teams? Quite the overreaction then.

a bit more than that, dude. I was probably understating. those few have pushed the exact same weak argument over and over. 

[The College Dropout]

18 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

Shambles FFS. It was disappointing at worst. 

1-1 would’ve been disappointing. 1-2 is a crumble. 
 

I rate Liverpool higher than most on here.  But after going 1-0 and then down to 10 men. We should’ve won no excuses. A draw wouldve been bad. Losing is a black mark for Howe and he will know it. 

8 minutes ago, Ronaldo said:

We played against 10 men for a full half of football and conceded two while scoring none. That can only be the result of a monumental failure to set up the team properly.

 

He fucked up, very badly, for the first time during his period here. We’re still behind him and we move on.

Aye. 
 

Plenty of credit in the bank.  It’s early but that should be some type of nadir that we will recover from.  After the Brighton game we need to put some W’s together. Winning away at Brighton would be a fantastic start but that’s a free hit for me. 
 

Im behind him 100% as are 99.9% of fans 

[Vinny Green Balls]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

1-1 would’ve been disappointing. 1-2 is a crumble. 
 

I rate Liverpool higher than most on here.  But after going 1-0 and then down to 10 men. We should’ve won no excuses. A draw wouldve been bad. Losing is a black mark for Howe and he will know it. 

Aye. 
 

Plenty of credit in the bank.  It’s early but that should be some type of nadir that we will recover from.  After the Brighton game we need to put some W’s together. Winning away at Brighton would be a fantastic start but that’s a free hit for me. 
 

Im behind him 100% as are 99.9% of fans 

well said both of you

[The College Dropout]

What’s funny is I missed the capitulation. Stopped watching at about 84 minutes.  Came back.  1-1. Came back. 1-2. 

[KaKa]

9 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

What’s funny is I missed the capitulation. Stopped watching at about 84 minutes.  Came back.  1-1. Came back. 1-2. 

 

So it was your fault! 

[The Prophet]

9 minutes ago, Ronaldo said:

We played against 10 men for a full half of football and conceded two while scoring none. That can only be the result of a monumental failure to set up the team properly.

 

He fucked up, very badly, for the first time during his period here. We’re still behind him and we move on.

 

He certainly could have been more proactive. He tried to change personnel and tuck the full backs in, but with Gakpo and Salah dropping in they ended up wrestling control in the middle of the park. It probably required a more innovative change.

A "fuck up" suggests he did something fundamentally wrong. It discounts other factors such as the quality of the opposition, the players on-field decision making and good old fashioned luck.

 

We should never of lost the game from the position we were in, but it was a bit of everything that contributed to an aberration of a finish, rather than a massive error from anyone in particular.

[Theregulars]

33 minutes ago, Ronaldo said:

We played against 10 men for a full half of football and conceded two while scoring none. That can only be the result of a monumental failure to set up the team properly.

 

He fucked up, very badly, for the first time during his period here. We’re still behind him and we move on.

So @Vinny Green Ballslikes this point but not mine? Seems inconsistent.

[mighty__mag]

Are the majority of those still blaming Eddie UK based or overseas?

 

I'm really curious. 

 

I'm only curious because I know in a lot of overseas sport, there's a lot of result driven fans, that's all that seems to matter to them, the bigger picture doesn't seem to register. 

 

As Brummie put it, zoom out a bit.

[Theregulars]

2 hours ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

It's not lazy. Your argument is flimsy and yet you are relentlessly going on about it. A few on here put it much better than I did, and until now, you absolutely ignored it. Until he has a squad on their level, it's ridiculous to criticize his mixed record against them. 

 

And I've said this many times before, but I find it particularly irritating when someone's defense is essentially, "It's a forum. We are allowed to have different opinions."  I find that it is often a sign that they have a pretty weak argument when they bust out the being oppressed card.

 

And I may come across as didactic, but you are coming across as if chatGPT just developed a shred of quasi-sentience.

 

 

 

OK - I'm going to try once more. 

 

As I have acknowledged multiple times - he does not have a squad as good as the other teams yet. That does not automatically exempt him from criticism when it's evident that he has contributed somehow to a negative outcome. 

 

Maybe people keep expressing their freedom to disagree because you keep ramming shit arguments down their throat without any space allowed for disagreement with you? A sign that it's not a weak argument is the amount of people in this thread saying that he got it badly wrong on Sunday. 

 

And I don't think I'm coming across like ChatGPT - my arguments are set out and explained in a logical, sequential and analytical way. ChatGPT can't do that. 

 

It's absolutely OK to have your views challenged - try not to get so upset about it. 

[astraguy]

fuck me this is still going,Get a fucking grip like sir bobby all over again stop ruining the good things we have and go tug yourself off ffs or log off for good

[Theregulars]

Just now, astraguy said:

fuck me this is still going,Get a fucking grip like sir bobby all over again stop ruining the good things we have and go tug yourself off ffs or log off for good

Drugs are bad, mmmmkay?

[Vinny Green Balls]

Just now, Theregulars said:

So @Vinny Green Ballslikes this point but not mine? Seems inconsistent.

Not at all, man. He didn't complain over and over about mixed results. Ronaldo and TCD have both said that Howe has a lot of credit in the bank because of what he has done before this. Once again, I think Howe dropped the ball against Liverpool. But I also think your argument about why you don't think he's elite is a pretty weak one at worst, and massively jumping the gun at best. This stance has been clearly outlined by a number of people. I find it a little amusing that you have complained that other people lack nuance in their argument when you are clearly demonstrating that deficiency by not seeing the difference between what Ronaldo has said here and what you've been saying. As I said, willfully obtuse.

[Theregulars]

Just now, Vinny Green Balls said:

Not at all, man. He didn't complain over and over about mixed results. Ronaldo and TCD have both said that Howe has a lot of credit in the bank because of what he has done before this. Once again, I think Howe dropped the ball against Liverpool. But I also think your argument about why you don't think he's elite is a pretty weak one at worst, and massively jumping the gun at best. This stance has been clearly outlined by a number of people. I find it a little amusing that you have complained that other people lack nuance in their argument when you are clearly demonstrating that deficiency by not seeing the difference between what Ronaldo has said here and what you've been saying. As I said, willfully obtuse.

I completely and fundamentally agree that he has so much credit in the bank. I do not in any way want a change. I love Eddie Howe. I just think he's not as good as some other coaches yet and it showed at the weekend. I don't think you can say he's an elite manager yet, the evidence doesn't back it up. He has the potential to be one.

 

I don't think there is a massive disagreement in what he and I said though - we're both saying that he has done magnificently but fucked up quite badly on Sunday. I then went further and said my view is that he isn't elite. 

 

If you can't see that this is not wilfully obtuse, then you don't understand what the words mean. 

[Vinny Green Balls]

2 minutes ago, Theregulars said:

OK - I'm going to try once more. 

 

As I have acknowledged multiple times - he does not have a squad as good as the other teams yet. That does not automatically exempt him from criticism when it's evident that he has contributed somehow to a negative outcome. 

 

Maybe people keep expressing their freedom to disagree because you keep ramming shit arguments down their throat without any space allowed for disagreement with you? A sign that it's not a weak argument is the amount of people in this thread saying that he got it badly wrong on Sunday. 

 

And I don't think I'm coming across like ChatGPT - my arguments are set out and explained in a logical, sequential and analytical way. ChatGPT can't do that. 

 

It's absolutely OK to have your views challenged - try not to get so upset about it. 

 

Another example of someone trying to hide the weakness of their argument...one step below whataboutism.

 

And dude, you only started acknowledging the relative weakness of the team only when a number of posters pointed it out. Up to that point, you totally ignored it. And your argument from that point on has still been weak. Many have said that this is what they consider his first proper fuck up. You are using this as an example of why you don't think he's elite. It's just absurd.

[Theregulars]

It's not remotely absurd - he does not yet have the achievements in the bank to be elite. I'm really confident he'd say the same himself. 

 

I don't follow your point about acknowledgment of weakness of team: is it that by not explicitly stating the same when I made my original point that it somehow renders my argument invalid and precludes me from holding both views at the same time? I have tried multiple times to say I agree, the squad isn't as comparatively good - literally I am recognising your argument and I am saying it's completely valid and true. This isn't the behaviour of a wilfully obtuse person, it's the behaviour of someone engaging you in a conversation about a mutual topic of interest. 

 

Why does it strike a nerve in you so much that I criticise Eddie Howe? Genuine question.

[Vinny Green Balls]

6 minutes ago, Theregulars said:

I completely and fundamentally agree that he has so much credit in the bank. I do not in any way want a change. I love Eddie Howe. I just think he's not as good as some other coaches yet and it showed at the weekend. I don't think you can say he's an elite manager yet, the evidence doesn't back it up. He has the potential to be one.

 

I don't think there is a massive disagreement in what he and I said though - we're both saying that he has done magnificently but fucked up quite badly on Sunday. I then went further and said my view is that he isn't elite. 

 

If you can't see that this is not wilfully obtuse, then you don't understand what the words mean. 

 

If you said this from the outset, there wouldn't have been any argument from me,. But you clearly didn't, and are seemingly now changing the goalposts. You said that you seriously worry about his mixed record against the top managers. If you can happily say that you then could have phrased it a bit better from the outset, then I am fine, because I see no problem with what you said in the first few sentences here.. 

 

Another sign of weakness "Why does it strike a nerve?" when someone is calling you out on something. That's a bit of gaslighting on your part, dude.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Vinny Green Balls

[Kid Icarus]

Get a podcast you two ?

[Theregulars]

I'm not sure it's moving the goalposts - I still do worry about his record against top managers and in big pressure games, because now we are in that conversation. That's not like lack of recognition of being in the shit recently, it's just that we are in the position we're in now, so isn't it fair to look at things from that perspective as well? Essentially can one not simultaneously believe that (i) he has some improvement to make before he becomes elite and (ii) he is comparatively handicapped by a weaker squad? To some degree I think the weaker squad argument is being overplayed this season (not last).

 

There's literally a TV series on right now where our owners repeatedly say that their ambition is that we become the best team in Europe. I know it's fluff and bollocks, but if we want to be a top tits team (and I really want us to both be a top tits team and be considered a top tits team), then we have to play like a top tits team when the time requires us to. I accept we can't do that all the time, but I maintain that there are some signs which suggest that he isn't elite. 

 

I can see how it would have helped if I said he isn't elite yet, but I'm not sure the situation required me to state that he has a weaker squad in order for the argument to be valid. Is it not enough that it got pointed out and when I got round to reading people's messages the next day I then responded saying yes, that's true? I just don't accept that it invalidates my argument.

 

Anyway, doesn't matter a jot.

[Groundhog63]

Hearing Eddie Howe's set fire to all his back catalogue of training/fitness and tactic disciplines & is just going to screenshot the crack off here. 

[PauloGeordio]