Eddie Howe

[Dr Venkman]

2 hours ago, Big Jow said:

 

HoweOut

 

It didn’t catch on.

Big Jow

[Colos Short and Curlies]

5 hours ago, Coffee_Johnny said:

Ok, but it just sounds like another complicated theory built on dodgy assumptions. Not sure why the simple we are/have been massively stretched injury/availability wise and whilst we have players returning they’re evidently not up to full speed and we are particularly lacking energy and steel in the middle. Lots of words in that sentence but it’s a pretty assumption-free observation. 

 

Its not a complicated theory at all, and I haven't made any reference to results or this season.

 

Eddie is obviously a master at building a club up and making the players play above themselves for a period of time. There is evidence in 2 clubs, starting from 2 different bases to show this.

There is also plenty of evidence that Mourinho and Ancelotti are masters at leading the biggest clubs and churning out trophies. There is also plenty of evidence that they know that they have a shelf life at each club and don't hang around.

There is also plenty of evidence that Big Sam is a master of the escape from relegation scenario (as much as we all hate him). 

 

You wouldn't put Mourinho into Sheff Utd now and expect them to stay up, similarly you wouldn't put Big Sam in charge of City and expect them to continue their dominance.

 

Managers like Klopp, Fergie, Wenger who can build a team up and then maintain the status at the top are few and far between. We're all hoping that Eddie is another one but there is no evidence (yet) that he will be.

 

Nagglesmann is likely to be the best option available this summer if Eddie was to leave, but if the club are happy to fully back him now then I'd rather he stays (albeit I'd like to see an evolution in playing style and a bit more flexibility). My point in this thread has been back him or sack him at the end of the season, don't keep him on if there are doubts. I'm comfortable with either but happy that they've decided to back him early on.

[Displayname]

26 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

We're not physically fatigued in the way we were when constantly playing three a week with about four and a half players to choose from. But we're at the very least mentally fatigued; we also had to travel up and down to London on Saturday ahead of a three day turnaround before another away game, so we weren't in peak physical condition last night. Not to mention the likes of Gordon and Schar are still playing constantly. 

 

Doesn't excuse the poor performance of course. 

If its about fatigue either mental or physical, i find it weird that we seem to play better(less shit) as the game goes on. 

It was totally the opposite way earlier on when it clearly was about fatigue and the players couldnt run after 70mins. In alot of those games we started out playing allright, now its just hopeless from the getgo.

[KaKa]

1 hour ago, Lush Vlad said:

I always say it and I know others do. But Joelinton basically plays 2-3 positions at once. He plays like he has aggression 20 on his FM stats and is always chipping away at the ref, the opposition, anyone within ear shot. 
 

I definitely feel like he has plenty of qualities you can see and quantify. But also loads of intangibles. 
 

Every time we play against a mate’s team. They all comment on what a beast he is and that they didn’t quite realise how dominant he could be at times. 
 

Fuck lining up against him in midfield  but if you had the slightest bit of athleticism. I think you’d look at the current 3 and fancy yourself in a battle against them. Assuming you’re a prem level midfielder, of course  

 

He is the tone setter and heartbeat of the team. He's been a massive miss.

[PauloGeordio]

4 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

He is the tone setter and heartbeat of the team. He's been a massive miss.

[Wolfcastle]

7 minutes ago, Displayname said:

If its about fatigue either mental or physical, i find it weird that we seem to play better(less shit) as the game goes on. 

Like when the other team gets fatigued.

We played better yesterday mostly because of the introduction of fresh legs from the bench I thought, the overall team performance wasn't really there just Almiron then Tino's verve

[Mattoon]

49 minutes ago, Displayname said:

Really dont think we can blame fatigue anymore when lately the first halves are when we have been particularly shit.

 

That's not how fatigue works, it doesn't just disappear because you're not running at the same level anymore, it can take a few months to recover. It also causes brain fog, difficulty making decisions and being slow to react to situations. The more you look into it, the more signs you will see in some of our players.

[timeEd32]

I'm going to avoid quoting myself, but to add some numbers to the above post about what we've lost without the Pope + Joelinton:

• Pope had 2.01 defensive actions outside of the penalty area per 90 min. Only three GK are higher this season - Steele, Martinez, and Vicario. 
  • Dubravka has 0.90 per 90. Only Flekken, Sa, Johnston, and Areola have less.
• Pope's average distance from goal for all defensive actions is 19.8. Only Steele is higher.
  • Dubravka's is 11.5, only Johnston and Areola are lower.

That's a lot of space that is no longer being covered by our GK, especially with a slow back line. 

 

As for Joelinton, there are fancier stats but:

• In 2022/23 he was 1st on the team and 13th in the league in tackles + interceptions. 
  • Interestingly his ratio of def / mid / att third tackles is basically identical to Trippier
• This season he's tied for first in the same stat per 90 (with Burn). Miley actually fares well here too, but it stands out that the tackles are occurring in different places.
  • 53% of Joelinton's tackles were in the defensive third, an almost identical ratio to last season. 40% are in the middle third.
  • Contrast that with Miley where only 18% of his tackles have happened in the defensive third. 60% are in the middle third and 22% in the attacking third. Gordon has a higher ratio of defensive third tackles.
  • Joelinton also has only one less interception this season than Miley and Longstaff combined despite playing over 1500 less minutes.

We don't have anyone doing what Joelinton does. Willock may be the only hope in that regard. Maybe Anderson.

[Heron]

6 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

I'm going to avoid quoting myself, but to add some numbers to the above post about what we've lost without the Pope + Joelinton:

• Pope had 2.01 defensive actions outside of the penalty area per 90 min. Only three GK are higher this season - Steele, Martinez, and Vicario. 
  • Dubravka has 0.90 per 90. Only Flekken, Sa, Johnston, and Areola have less.
• Pope's average distance from goal for all defensive actions is 19.8. Only Steele is higher.
  • Dubravka's is 11.5, only Johnston and Areola are lower.

That's a lot of space that is no longer being covered by our GK, especially with a slow back line. 

 

As for Joelinton, there are fancier stats but:

• In 2022/23 he was 1st on the team and 13th in the league in tackles + interceptions. 
  • Interestingly his ratio of def / mid / att third tackles is basically identical to Trippier
• This season he's tied for first in the same stat per 90 (with Burn). Miley actually fares well here too, but it stands out that the tackles are occurring in different places.
  • 53% of Joelinton's tackles were in the defensive third, an almost identical ratio to last season. 40% are in the middle third.
  • Contrast that with Miley where only 18% of his tackles have happened in the defensive third. 60% are in the middle third and 22% in the attacking third. Gordon has a higher ratio of defensive third tackles.
  • Joelinton also has only one less interception this season than Miley and Longstaff combined despite playing over 1500 less minutes.

We don't have anyone doing what Joelinton does. Willock may be the only hope in that regard. Maybe Anderson.

Very interesting stuff this

[Pata]

1 hour ago, Colos Short and Curlies said:

Managers like Klopp, Fergie, Wenger who can build a team up and then maintain the status at the top are few and far between. We're all hoping that Eddie is another one but there is no evidence (yet) that he will be.

 

Is there any evidence that he won't be? How about we give him a chance?

[Beren]

1 hour ago, timeEd32 said:

I'm going to avoid quoting myself, but to add some numbers to the above post about what we've lost without the Pope + Joelinton:

• Pope had 2.01 defensive actions outside of the penalty area per 90 min. Only three GK are higher this season - Steele, Martinez, and Vicario. 
  • Dubravka has 0.90 per 90. Only Flekken, Sa, Johnston, and Areola have less.
• Pope's average distance from goal for all defensive actions is 19.8. Only Steele is higher.
  • Dubravka's is 11.5, only Johnston and Areola are lower.

That's a lot of space that is no longer being covered by our GK, especially with a slow back line. 

 

As for Joelinton, there are fancier stats but:

• In 2022/23 he was 1st on the team and 13th in the league in tackles + interceptions. 
  • Interestingly his ratio of def / mid / att third tackles is basically identical to Trippier
• This season he's tied for first in the same stat per 90 (with Burn). Miley actually fares well here too, but it stands out that the tackles are occurring in different places.
  • 53% of Joelinton's tackles were in the defensive third, an almost identical ratio to last season. 40% are in the middle third.
  • Contrast that with Miley where only 18% of his tackles have happened in the defensive third. 60% are in the middle third and 22% in the attacking third. Gordon has a higher ratio of defensive third tackles.
  • Joelinton also has only one less interception this season than Miley and Longstaff combined despite playing over 1500 less minutes.

We don't have anyone doing what Joelinton does. Willock may be the only hope in that regard. Maybe Anderson.

 

Really interesting/good post.

 

Have to say, just anecdotally: Joelinton's absence is visible, however Pope rushing out of his six yard box often gave me palpitations

[Colos Short and Curlies]

43 minutes ago, Pata said:

 

Is there any evidence that he won't be? How about we give him a chance?

if you read/quote the last part of my post you’d see that I’m in favour of that. 

[KaKa]

7 hours ago, Colos Short and Curlies said:

 

Managers like Klopp, Fergie, Wenger who can build a team up and then maintain the status at the top are few and far between. We're all hoping that Eddie is another one but there is no evidence (yet) that he will be.

 

Fergie wouldn't even be a thing according to the way some of our fans are going on about Howe, as Fergie would have been sacked well before he really got Man Utd going, as it took him some time.

[mouldy_uk]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68423241
 

Football schedule is not just a health risk but is 'killing the product', says PFA

[mouldy_uk]

[Hanshithispantz]

9 hours ago, Displayname said:

If its about fatigue either mental or physical, i find it weird that we seem to play better(less shit) as the game goes on. 

It was totally the opposite way earlier on when it clearly was about fatigue and the players couldnt run after 70mins. In alot of those games we started out playing allright, now its just hopeless from the getgo.

We're clearly not pressing like we did. Why would it not be down to fatigue, or a byproduct of it?

 

As an obvious example, we've got Gordon playing almost every minute, covering for Barnes/Joelinton and 2 strikers, he's obviously going to feel it.

[KaKa]

14 minutes ago, mouldy_uk said:

 

Excuses bro.

[r0cafella]

Some proper tedious posts in here mind

[Guest]

Add Tonali's 120+ days too.

[Lish007]

Anyone wanting instant success needs to slow down. Eddie doesn't just bring his magician ways in making forgotten players like Schar, Joelinton and to an extent Almiron perform way above their station but he brings a stability, a class and a willingness to improve. 

 

Don't let us be like Chelsea. He obviously has what it takes but we've lost 300 mins/or was it days?? more than anyone else due to injuries. I believe he's our fergie.  I don't want anyone else. I want him to make mistakes, learn from them, improve. How all humans should operate and be treated. You're not made into a world class manager over night. It takes dedication and failure. 

 

And don't mention Pep because every team he's had everything at his disposal. Yes world class but Eddie has taken a bunch of championship and mid table prem players and with a few sprinklings of quality, got us top 4. 

 

We should not be so short sighted. 

[Guest]

It'll likely happen at some point but I don't want us to be one of those clubs who change managers every 18-24 months again after the bad run of games they have. We've landed on our feet with Howe. 

[SUPERTOON]

Think it’s a mix of fatigue and injuries with a lack of confidence and Howe making a few mistakes. Don’t think much more needs to be said, get to the summer, hopefully a positive transfer window and see what happens next season.

[The College Dropout]

If you think he’s our Fergie, you’re the one with the extremist perspective. 
 

It’s plenty on here that compare him favourably to Klopp or Guardiola. And there just isn’t the evidence for that at the elite level.  

[r0cafella]

7 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

If you think he’s our Fergie, you’re the one with the extremist perspective. 
 

It’s plenty on here that compare him favourably to Klopp or Guardiola. And there just isn’t the evidence for that at the elite level.  

This is Harsh, we achieved extraordinary things last season in excess of most expectations. 
 

I understand what your saying though, he should be compared to league winners and champions league winners at this point. 
 

that being said, he does have a few extraordinary achievements on his CV which show a great deal of promise and potential to mix it with such luminaries if he can take it to the next level. 

[The Prophet]

I have no idea what type of manager Howe will go on to be, but regarding Klopp...

 

His first managerial gig was Mainz. He took over and saved the club from relegation to the third tier. Three seasons later he got them prompted to the Bundesliga for the first time in their history. In his first two seasons he finished 11th, before being relegated. He put some of his success down to the characters of the players he signed and the mentality of the dressing room.

 

In his first season at Dortmund they finished 6th and won the domestic cup. The next season he finished 5th, before they went on to win the league.

 

I guess my point is yes he's one of the best managers going, but he wasn't an instant success and it took time and learning for him to become the manager he is today. There's also a couple of similarities to Howe, even if they aren't on the same trajectory.