Eddie Howe

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

2 minutes ago, Jesse Pinkman said:

I suppose it ultimately comes down to how important is it to the board to kick on and compete for titles. 

 

If the goal is to become the best club in the premier league or atleast compete for titles and trophies regularly then they should sell a few assets this summer to help fund a significant rebuild and invest big in a top manager such as Alonso or Nagelsman. Like City going from Mancini to Guardiola. 
 

If they are happy getting Europe every other season and some nice European runs every few years then you may as well just keep Howe. 

 

Ancelotti at Everton finished 10th in his full season in charge. Unless you can pay the wages to top players and build a strong squad (think Mourinho with his 25 at Chelsea), something it is no secret we are prevented from doing you're really just twisting for the sake of it. 

[bobbydazzla]

6 minutes ago, dcmk said:

Alonso 

 

He's not coming here..   he will have his pick of top teams once they move away from their current managers.  

 

He couldn't get a team with Mbappe, Bellingham, Vini Jr playing well and you expect him to do well here.

 

Btw they lost their derby with him 5-2. With a team like Real Madrid.. 

 

I'm not saying he's coming here.

 

I'm just saying he's a name that was mentioned and was shot down for the same reasons you've just given and I was just offering an alternative viewpoint. It was hypothetical.

 

And your Real Madrid example is why he might prefer a lower level of team than going to another elite team. He had a shocker at Madrid and might prefer to avoid going for another elite club right now.

So you rubbished my hypothetical and then went and justified it, all in the same post. 

 

"He was shit at a top team so he'll have his pick of the top teams" plus "he couldn't get galacticos to perfom so he won't fit in at NUFC".

You haven't really thought that through have you.

 

 

 

Edited March 23 by bobbydazzla

[r0cafella]

Just now, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

So Howe goes, suddenly our squad of players looks significantly better? We no longer require significant investment and major recruitment? I swear most of this is people getting soft cocked about the players that might get brought in under Howe. An argument which seemingly is predicated on the Elanga fee, Wissa/Woltemade. 

 

We added nobdy in January so why is the squad we started the season with supposed to be markedly better? We are four points off what would be considered par in terms of wages? Emotional responses to an emotional game entirely understandable. But it also emboldens the short termists and greener grass aspirationals amongst us. 

This is an arguement for getting rid of him no? It's his squad which suddenly isn't good enough isn't it? A squad put together at great expense no less. 

 

I think the compelling case for keeping him is you believe he's learnt some lessons and has the ability to turn things around. You also believe he's figured out how to manage a packed schedule too. 

[TRon]

10 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

That's a strawman, it's nothing to do with 'justification for having an opinion' - it's about putting that opinion into the context it needs, ie who would replace him. 

 

This idea that no one can be cited because there are just too many managers who fit the bill to know who they are, or that potentially realistic alternatives are wrongly shot down is a cop out. If we're looking for a manager to improve upon Howe's achievements I think it's fair to say that they'd be relatively well known or it would but a complete punt on an unknown. 

 

There aren't that many managers out there who fall into that category who are also realistic. The likes of Alonso get shot down for a reason, not just for the sake of shooting it down. Meanwhile, Howe himself if often linked with the clubs we're aspiring to get to the same level as. 

 

 

 

 

 

We are fans, we aren't paid to know the answers. But the club have hired people who's job is exactly that. That's not an argument for or against Howe either. It might well be that they have full faith in Howe and have no intention whatsoever of looking elsewhere, and I believe that's probably the more likely tbh.

 

But at the same time, they will need to see that he's moving us forward and looks like he can get back on track next season. They will want to see a coherent style which is workable when we have European commitments as well. They will also want a manager who will go along with signings made by the DOF who will also presumably by buying players for the NUFC of the future, whoever is in charge. 

[dcmk]

1 minute ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

So Howe goes, suddenly our squad of players looks significantly better? We no longer require significant investment and major recruitment? I swear most of this is people getting soft cocked about the players that might get brought in under Howe. An argument which seemingly is predicated on the Elanga fee, Wissa/Woltemade. 

 

We added nobdy in January so why is the squad we started the season with supposed to be markedly better? We are four points off what would be considered par in terms of wages? Emotional responses to an emotional game entirely understandable. But it also emboldens the short termists and greener grass aspirationals amongst us. 

We have had a simply awful season this year yet only 7 points off CL. With no Isak or recognisable striker this year and a terrible summer of recruitment.

 

Fix that and with no Europe next season, and more training pitch time. Howe will have us back into Europe quickly.

 

 

[Sir Joel Inton]

Just now, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

 

So Howe goes, suddenly our squad of players looks significantly better?

 

 

Possibly, yes. If we start utilising a tactical approach to bring out the best in them (such as Woltemade) rather than having square pegs in round holes.

 

1 minute ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

We no longer require significant investment and major recruitment?

 

We will still require that. Nobody is disputing otherwise.

 

1 minute ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

I swear most of this is people getting soft cocked about the players that might get brought in under Howe. An argument which seemingly is predicated on the Elanga fee, Wissa/Woltemade. 

 

It’s definitely a valid concern. We cannot afford to purchase more players who are one dimensional wedded to Howe’s system.

 

2 minutes ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

We added nobdy in January so why is the squad we started the season with supposed to be markedly better

 

Because the current tactical approach doesn’t allow those players to operate to their best abilities, or we’re playing the wrong players in the wrong games.

 

3 minutes ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

We are four points off what would be considered par in terms of wages?

 

Correct. Underperforming with absolutely no indication we will suddenly start to perform. I’m currently more confident that we’ll end up below that ‘par’ position, rather than at it or above. That’d be a failure with significant financial and sporting consequences.

 

4 minutes ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

Emotional responses to an emotional game entirely understandable.

 

The same questions and concerns have been said for some time, after both wins and losses.

 

5 minutes ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

But it also emboldens the short termists and greener grass aspirationals amongst us. 

 

I’d argue it’s more shorttermism to stay with Howe. After all, we know we may qualify for Europe but then need to replace him after that as he’s unable to manage a European campaign.

[Dr Venkman]

18 minutes ago, Sir Joel Inton said:

 

Impossible. I’ve seen on here that there is no better manager than Howe and we’ll immediately go backwards if he’s replaced.

 

Don’t start coming in here with evidence to the contrary, we need to rely on past feelings rather than the current and future.

Can we rely on new usernames? Or are past ones more reliable?

[SUPERTOON]

Even if I wanted him out (I don’t), I think those above would make a shit show of replacing him.

[dcmk]

1 minute ago, bobbydazzla said:

 

I'm not saying he's coming here.

 

I'm just saying he's a name that was mentioned and was shot down for the same reasons you've just given and I was just offering an alternative viewpoint. It was hypothetical.

 

And your Real Madrid example is why he might prefer a lower level of team than going to another elite team. He had a shocker at Madrid and might prefer to avoid going for another elite club right now.

So you rubbished my hypothetical and then went and justified it, all in the same post. 

 

 

In recent history when a manager leaves a big club and their next gig is with a smaller club they treat it as a bit of a joke, I immediately think Jose and Conte at Spurs and how those ended, was farcical.  The job was beneath them so half arsed it and played for the sack.

 

Need a manager who would actually appreciate and be grateful for the opportunity.  Iraola is the only manager who comes to mind from the current PL group of managers. 

 

 

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

4 minutes ago, Jesse Pinkman said:

invest big in a top manager such as Alonso or Nagelsman

Including Alonso in there is a canny stretch. He had a nice spell at Leverkusen and that's it. He's as yet unproven. And Nagelsmann did well with the best team in Germany and has been underwhelming with the Germany national team. 

[Sir Joel Inton]

4 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

 

I'm not saying he's coming here.

 

I'm just saying he's a name that was mentioned and was shot down for the same reasons you've just given and I was just offering an alternative viewpoint. It was hypothetical.

 

And your Real Madrid example is why he might prefer a lower level of team than going to another elite team. He had a shocker at Madrid and might prefer to avoid going for another elite club right now.

So you rubbished my hypothetical and then went and justified it, all in the same post. 

 

"He was shit at a top team so he'll have his pick of the top teams" plus "he couldn't get galacticos to perfom so he won't fit in at NUFC".

You haven't really thought that through have you.

 

 

 

 

 

The only reason people are asking for names being put forward is to find any potential reason to criticise them.

[dcmk]

Nagelsmann and Alonso c'mon guys.

[CallumG6]

1 minute ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

Including Alonso in there is a canny stretch. He had a nice spell at Leverkusen and that's it. He's as yet unproven. And Nagelsmann did well with the best team in Germany and has been underwhelming with the Germany national team. 

 

Bit of an understatement, he almost won the treble in a league notorious for having one team dominate it.

[Kid Icarus]

13 minutes ago, Sir Joel Inton said:

If you have to have a manager with a better CV, or you are confident will do better, how can you ever replace a manager who wins the Champions League? Can you only employ a World Cup winning manager?

 

It’s impossible to be confident a manager will come in and do better as football isn’t a game as simple as that. A manager who works at x club under y conditions may not be able to replicate that elsewhere due to various circumstances. However, a manager who failed at b club under c conditions may find a new club allows them to flourish. 

 

Any change would be a risk. However, many think it’s a bigger risk at this stage to go into the summer and next season with Howe.

 

If your argument is that a manager should be replaced, it's automatically rightly assumed that you'll want a manager that's better or has a better CV. Why wouldn't you? If your argument is that the club should be looking at rising talent (ironically who Howe was - and has delivered on his potential I should add) then fair enough, but I don't think there's much backing it up as an argument. 

[HaydnNUFC]

Pffft, as if Benitez would ever come here. Just been managing Real Madrid, no way he comes here especially given we’re 19th.

 

- Many on here presumably, circa March 2016.

 

 

Edited March 23 by HaydnNUFC

[Abacus]

2 hours ago, Chicken Dancer said:

How to completely twist it? What he done at Bournemouth was lovely stuff and a lovely reminder at how special the football pyramid is.

 

The question I asked was what top level stuff had he achieved before he came to Newcastle? Champions League qualification, cup finals, trophy wins etc?

 

But he's since had all those here, and surely no-one expected all those from his time at Bournemouth.

 

So, I'm not sure I followed your point - just that you want a more experienced Champions League qualifying and cup final experienced manager to take his place? They don't grow on trees and ... well... we have one already.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Just now, r0cafella said:

This is an arguement for getting rid of him no? It's his squad which suddenly isn't good enough isn't it? A squad put together at great expense no less. 

 

I think the compelling case for keeping him is you believe he's learnt some lessons and has the ability to turn things around. You also believe he's figured out how to manage a packed schedule too. 

 Not at all. Only if you're wholly ignorant of the context of football, recruitment and PSR. 

 

The compelling case for keeping him is he has a demonstrable record of over achievement at Newcastle since he has been here. That in the main the players signed under him have been really rather good, but that it's been abudantly clear that we don't have enough quality bodies to compete in the way we as fans would like us to. 

Managing a packed schedule is primarily down to the quality/size of the squad. 

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, HaydnNUFC said:

Pffft, as if Benitez would ever come here. Just been managing Real Madrid, no way he comes here especially given we’re 19th.

 

- Many on here presumably, circa March 2016.

 

 

 

We are very attractive particularly if we are giving as much input into transfers as we've given Eddie  not many such clubs exist nowadays. 

[Jesse Pinkman]

2 minutes ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

Including Alonso in there is a canny stretch. He had a nice spell at Leverkusen and that's it. He's as yet unproven. And Nagelsmann did well with the best team in Germany and has been underwhelming with the Germany national team. 

Alonso and Nagelsmann would be a step up on Howe. No doubt about it. 
 

The point is I agree that if you are sacking Howe you need to invest and get someone better. 
 

Guardiola to City was a surprise move but money talks and the Saudi’s are richer than the City owners 

[RS]

59 minutes ago, Chicken Dancer said:

Aren’t you just goading him into an answer so you can scoff at whatever he suggests?

Genuinely interested in who people think should replace him. 

 

Bobby has said he’s on the fence. But it would be good to get the thoughts of those who definitely think he needs sacked as to who they’d definitely want to replace him.
 

 

[Kid Icarus]

19 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

 

To give a view on a Howe replacement people have to 

 

1) Know the global pool of managers

2) Predict the future about how bringing a manager here would work out

 

It's a completely pointless exercise.

 

Alonso might be sitting there thinking "I'd fucking love a crack at the NUFC job, it'd be a step between the turn around at Leverkusen and the elite club nightmare I've just had at Real"

 

Neither you, or me or anyone else who posts on this forum know what Alonso's thinking. 

 

You're strawmanning again, having an opinion isn't conditional. You're overcomplicating it when it's very simple. There are people who think Howe should go, those people are naturally being asked who they think we should replace him with. That's it, it's not a trick. 

 

The Alonso stuff is just ridiculous tbh. Me, you, or anyone on the forum doesn't know what Michelle from Eastenders is thinking either, but I could make a pretty educated guess that if you made your move it would result in a restraining order. 

 

 

Edited March 23 by Kid Icarus

[Kimbo]

Finding a new manager isn’t that different to finding a player. Realistically there will be up and coming managers out there that are more talented than Howe and will go on to achieve a lot, there are also hype job and frauds and people that will only do well under very specific circumstances. It’s always a gamble to some extent and you need people that know how to spot a suitable appointment.

[Wallsendmag]

9 minutes ago, dcmk said:

Alonso 

 

He's not coming here..   he will have his pick of top teams once they move away from their current managers.  

 

As for his ability, it's not a great look when couldn't get a team with Mbappe, Bellingham, Vini Jr playing well and you expect him to succeed  here?

 

They lost their derby with him 5-2. With a team like Real Madrid..  

 

 

 

 

He succeeded at Leverkusen with none of those players though, won the league and cup double, ending Bayerns run off 11 straight league titles in the process, went an entire domestic campaign unbeaten and got to a European Final. When he took control the previous season they were in the relegation zone 

 

Also your post is very contradictory. On one hand you're saying he was useless at Real Madrid and immediately after you say he'll have the pick of all the top teams 

 

So are you saying he's good or bad?

[Optimistic Nut]

10 hours ago, Pilko said:

I don't understand "we've been poor in the league, but so has everyone this year, it's a poor league" as an argument. 

 

We're saying the standard of team is lower across the board - so why does that mean we just lower ourselves to that level? If some of these sides are that bad we might occasionally look comfortable and win convincingly, which we hardly ever do.

 

I think it's the opposite tbf. Think the gap between the sides just under the top and the sides just above the bottom is the narrowest I've ever seen it, mainly due to PSR meaning the likes of us can't strengthen the squads to compete on 4 fronts. Just a domestic campaign and I think we'd have been up amongst the top 5-6 even with this squad. 

[mayubeproud]

Real Madrid in this season is quite interesting btw.

 

Alonso is good on paper, did a great job at Leverkusen, but he lost the dressing room at Bernabeu and it is clear that things wouldn't work.

 

Then it comes Arbeloa. Everyone thought he is rubbish. Just Florentino Perez's puppet. Lost his first game to a team ranked #17 in the Segunda. Also lost to Benfica 2:4. And then slowly and suddenly fans at the Bernabeu start to have trust in him, he beat Mourinho, Pep and Simeone recently. Vini and Valverde are immense now, after they were booed by their own fans 2 months ago. Also got praised for giving chance to their B-team players.