Eddie Howe

[Robster]

Just now, Wallsendmag said:

 

I wouldn't say it wasn't good. He wasn't really there long enough.

 

 

Real Madrid are a different level of club so very difficult to judge but it is interesting how the relationship between him and the players turned sour so quickly.
I can't even begin to imagine trying to handle all those ego's and attitudes but great managers can. All part of his learning I guess.

 

[RUHRLYASLEEVESUP]

2 hours ago, Geordie Ahmed said:

He had scored 45 in 4 seasons, 11.25 per season is not a bad return for someone that wasn't always the main striker and was sharing the goals with Toney and Mbeumo 

 

If he could have given us that same level of return we'd certainly be a few places higher in the league

 

 

5 seasons including this (aye he was injured this one) however lots of players get injured, part of the game 

 

statistics don’t lie, infact 92% of people don’t believe them 

[Wallsendmag]

6 minutes ago, Robster said:

 

Real Madrid are a different level of club so very difficult to judge but it is interesting how the relationship between him and the players turned sour so quickly.
I can't even begin to imagine trying to handle all those ego's and attitudes but great managers can. All part of his learning I guess.

 

 

Managing the world's biggest and most demanding club is a tough gig for a new manager still cutting his teeth in the game, although a 70%+ win ratio isn't to be sniffed at I suppose. He created a superb camaraderie in the Bayer 04 dressing room though and also formed an incredible bond with their supporters. Think he even went in with their Ultras at the end of one of their games. Remember seeing a picture of his held aloft by them with a crown on his head, reminded me of Keegan down at Grimsby all those years ago! He'll be a better manager for that short spell at Real Madrid I'm sure.

 

Interested to see where he ends up next but if the club are serious about their aspirations for 2030 (I have my doubts but we'll see) then he should be one of the people under consideration to get us there.

[DC Magpie]

16 hours ago, Mikky said:

It’s all about having a strategy - we’ve not had one in 2 years 

 

 

 

I was listening to a podcast the other day (can't remember who) and there was an old timer talking about other coaches who have almost exclusively played a 4-3-3 high press. He cited time after time where it works for a season or two, but then becomes less effective. Whether the players get tired of it, other teams get used to playing against it, etc., he claimed the system just doesn't work in the long term. He cited coach after coach who clung to the system, and time and again, they would be successful for a year or two, then have to move on and try it again somewhere else. Wish I could remember the names he mentioned.

 

Anyway, I was wondering what some folks more knowledgeable than me thought of that premise. It does seem to me that other teams have adapted to what we do, and that the players can't (or won't) keep the level of energy necessary for an entire 90 minutes (much less an entire season).

 

I've long said Eddie has been far too stubborn in staying with the same stale formation and system. I think, for his own sake, he needs to use these last two months and seven games to try something new. I think it will go a long way toward soothing some feathers in the fanbase (even if it doesn't completely work), but I think the alternative of sticking with the 4-3-3 with middling to poor results will result in the end of Eddie's time here. Thoughts?

[Geordie Ahmed]

31 minutes ago, RUHRLYASLEEVESUP said:

5 seasons including this (aye he was injured this one) however lots of players get injured, part of the game 

 

statistics don’t lie, infact 92% of people don’t believe them 

 

Why are we including this season? When the post you responded to was clearly talking about who we signed?

[Zero]

It is genuinely a very difficult task to find someone better than Howe IF the club only need to play 38 league games per season. 
 

the only reasons why we might need to find a “better” one are

1. We have to perform better in the season with Europe competition 
2. Howe is not “functioning well” now and need a break from football

[Mikky]

10 minutes ago, DC Magpie said:

 

I was listening to a podcast the other day (can't remember who) and there was an old timer talking about other coaches who have almost exclusively played a 4-3-3 high press. He cited time after time where it works for a season or two, but then becomes less effective. Whether the players get tired of it, other teams get used to playing against it, etc., he claimed the system just doesn't work in the long term. He cited coach after coach who clung to the system, and time and again, they would be successful for a year or two, then have to move on and try it again somewhere else. Wish I could remember the names he mentioned.

 

Anyway, I was wondering what some folks more knowledgeable than me thought of that premise. It does seem to me that other teams have adapted to what we do, and that the players can't (or won't) keep the level of energy necessary for an entire 90 minutes (much less an entire season).

 

I've long said Eddie has been far too stubborn in staying with the same stale formation and system. I think, for his own sake, he needs to use these last two months and seven games to try something new. I think it will go a long way toward soothing some feathers in the fanbase (even if it doesn't completely work), but I think the alternative of sticking with the 4-3-3 with middling to poor results will result in the end of Eddie's time here. Thoughts?

Bielsa is a good example of a 2/3 year press then it goes horribly wrong 
 

I think the tactics have been really muddled this season and a number of factors need to be considered 

 

Ageing back line - Pope - Trippier - Schar - Burn - we’ve lost the ability to press high due to a lack of mobility from these 

 

Note how in the first few years our defensive line was high - and since last season it’s dropped by at least 10 yards hence why we concede so many soft goals 

 

We have played with 3 at the back a few times, again with an ageing back line it no longer works 

 

We can’t keep the ball in midfield - countless wasted passes 

 

Our right wing is technically very poor and hurts our ability to create genuine goals and assists

 

We basically have no effective 9s even though there’s 3 “strikers” in the squad 

 

Given the squad, we should have played a 4231 this season to try and counter those deficiencies 

[Kilcline]

18 minutes ago, DC Magpie said:

 

I was listening to a podcast the other day (can't remember who) and there was an old timer talking about other coaches who have almost exclusively played a 4-3-3 high press. He cited time after time where it works for a season or two, but then becomes less effective. Whether the players get tired of it, other teams get used to playing against it, etc., he claimed the system just doesn't work in the long term. He cited coach after coach who clung to the system, and time and again, they would be successful for a year or two, then have to move on and try it again somewhere else. Wish I could remember the names he mentioned.

 

Anyway, I was wondering what some folks more knowledgeable than me thought of that premise. It does seem to me that other teams have adapted to what we do, and that the players can't (or won't) keep the level of energy necessary for an entire 90 minutes (much less an entire season).

 

I've long said Eddie has been far too stubborn in staying with the same stale formation and system. I think, for his own sake, he needs to use these last two months and seven games to try something new. I think it will go a long way toward soothing some feathers in the fanbase (even if it doesn't completely work), but I think the alternative of sticking with the 4-3-3 with middling to poor results will result in the end of Eddie's time here. Thoughts?

I'd rather we stick to what we know and hope the one game a week makes a difference given that we're still well in with a shout of Europe and what would be a "par" finish in the league. Of course the danger there is that it leads to a doubling down and nothing changes next year.

 

DM me the podcast if you remember what it was - sounds right up my street.

 

I broadly agree with the arguments against you've mentioned, the reality is that 4-3-3 can be/is a pretty flawed formation unless you have the squad to rotate players out and everyone knows their jobs, depending on your interpretation and how you play. I think we're the perfect case study of that where we can look unstoppable when everyone is on it and can even compensate for the Grand Canyon between the defence and midfield etc, but when it's not working it falls apart and looks worse this season because, as someone mentioned in here or on another thread, we've stopped doing the "half space" runs in attack so we're predictable and easy to defend against unless we're physically dominant. The Champions League group stage home games against Benfica, PSV and Bilbao are a great example of that, we didn't play particularly well in those games, but we absolutely beasted them all physically and they couldn't live with us.

[Mikky]

7 minutes ago, Zero said:

It is genuinely a very difficult task to find someone better than Howe IF the club only need to play 38 league games per season. 
 

the only reasons why we might need to find a “better” one are

1. We have to perform better in the season with Europe competition 
2. Howe is not “functioning well” now and need a break from football

My gripe isn’t so much with Howe (no matter how much he frustrates me at times) it’s more so the vision and planning - there isn’t any - we hold onto players for too long - Wilson and Miggy we should have sold the season we qualified for CL - maximise their sale value and try to stay within PSR

 

To virtually fail PSR was unacceptable imo and cost us Anderson and Minteh 

 

Trippier/Willock/to an extent Murphy - still here 

 

Where was the additional left back cover?

 

I just hope this season end Wilson and Suds and whoever are there to support Eddie because he’s been on his own virtually - we panicked in the summer - but who wouldn’t in that situation?

 

 

[Mikky]

2 minutes ago, Kilcline said:

I'd rather we stick to what we know and hope the one game a week makes a difference given that we're still well in with a shout of Europe and what would be a "par" finish in the league. Of course the danger there is that it leads to a doubling down and nothing changes next year.

 

DM me the podcast if you remember what it was - sounds right up my street.

 

I broadly agree with the arguments against you've mentioned, the reality is that 4-3-3 can be/is a pretty flawed formation unless you have the squad to rotate players out and everyone knows their jobs, depending on your interpretation and how you play. I think we're the perfect case study of that where we can look unstoppable when everyone is on it and can even compensate for the Grand Canyon between the defence and midfield etc, but when it's not working it falls apart and looks worse this season because, as someone mentioned in here or on another thread, we've stopped doing the "half space" runs in attack so we're predictable and easy to defend against unless we're physically dominant. The Champions League group stage home games against Benfica, PSV and Bilbao are a great example of that, we didn't play particularly well in those games, but we absolutely beasted them all physically and they couldn't live with us.

For me it’s no coincidence the 433 stopped working the minute we dropped our defensive line - we are too deep - largely due to a lack of mobility in the squad 

[astraguy]

26 minutes ago, Zero said:

It is genuinely a very difficult task to find someone better than Howe IF the club only need to play 38 league games per season. 
 

the only reasons why we might need to find a “better” one are

1. We have to perform better in the season with Europe competition 
2. Howe is not “functioning well” now and need a break from football

[David Kelly]

5 hours ago, Holmesy said:

no evolution, easy to play through, playing/training style that isn't conducive to playing in Europe, wasted money, unable to get the best out of certain players, can't defend, and the need for possession-based football (maybe he's been reading this thread). And that is all fair.

Fair? Seriously? When did all this happen exactly? When he saved us from relegation? Getting us to two cup finals, winning one of them? Two Champions League qualifications?

 

Is all of it based on this season where there has been a myriad of mitigating circumstances? 

I've read your posts mate and I'm not sure why you keep contributing to this debate. It's the same stuff over and over again. Of course, you are entitled to your views, that is absolutely fine but these points were challenged in very constructive way by people who are infinitely more articulate than I am and they made absolutely sweet FA difference. That is fine as well, if that's it then that's it but in future you may as well just write 'no previous success or mitigating circumstances makes any difference' and be done with it.

 

 

 

Edited March 25 by David Kelly

[Robster]

1 hour ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

Managing the world's biggest and most demanding club is a tough gig for a new manager still cutting his teeth in the game, although a 70%+ win ratio isn't to be sniffed at I suppose. He created a superb camaraderie in the Bayer 04 dressing room though and also formed an incredible bond with their supporters. Think he even went in with their Ultras at the end of one of their games. Remember seeing a picture of his held aloft by them with a crown on his head, reminded me of Keegan down at Grimsby all those years ago! He'll be a better manager for that short spell at Real Madrid I'm sure.

 

Interested to see where he ends up next but if the club are serious about their aspirations for 2030 (I have my doubts but we'll see) then he should be one of the people under consideration to get us there.

One of the things with Alonso is that I want him to be ordinary as I have little doubt in my mind that he's going to end up at Liverpool and be good.

Awful thought 

[NUFC91]

My biggest worry in all honesty is we rolled over for our biggest rivals on Sunday and players were out fought out worked out battled out ran, particularly in 2nd half...there was no reaction from the Barcelona 2nd half...I honestly thought the players would be so pumped up and wanting to show the fans a reaction and there was nothing...not one yellow card in a derby..

 

[Coffee_Johnny]

4 minutes ago, NUFC91 said:

My biggest worry in all honesty is we rolled over for our biggest rivals on Sunday and players were out fought out worked out battled out ran, particularly in 2nd half...there was no reaction from the Barcelona 2nd half...I honestly thought the players would be so pumped up and wanting to show the fans a reaction and there was nothing...not one yellow card in a derby..

 

Bar a yellow for Joelinton. But take your point. 

[500bhp]

1 hour ago, DC Magpie said:

 

I was listening to a podcast the other day (can't remember who) and there was an old timer talking about other coaches who have almost exclusively played a 4-3-3 high press. He cited time after time where it works for a season or two, but then becomes less effective. Whether the players get tired of it, other teams get used to playing against it, etc., he claimed the system just doesn't work in the long term. He cited coach after coach who clung to the system, and time and again, they would be successful for a year or two, then have to move on and try it again somewhere else. Wish I could remember the names he mentioned.

 

Anyway, I was wondering what some folks more knowledgeable than me thought of that premise. It does seem to me that other teams have adapted to what we do, and that the players can't (or won't) keep the level of energy necessary for an entire 90 minutes (much less an entire season).

 

I've long said Eddie has been far too stubborn in staying with the same stale formation and system. I think, for his own sake, he needs to use these last two months and seven games to try something new. I think it will go a long way toward soothing some feathers in the fanbase (even if it doesn't completely work), but I think the alternative of sticking with the 4-3-3 with middling to poor results will result in the end of Eddie's time here. Thoughts?

 

It might have been John Gibson on the latest Chronicle podcast. He was making that exact point on Bielsa and how all his teams are fucked after two years, then he gets sacked or leaves. 

[DC Magpie]

1 hour ago, Kilcline said:

I'd rather we stick to what we know and hope the one game a week makes a difference given that we're still well in with a shout of Europe and what would be a "par" finish in the league. Of course the danger there is that it leads to a doubling down and nothing changes next year.

 

DM me the podcast if you remember what it was - sounds right up my street.

 

I broadly agree with the arguments against you've mentioned, the reality is that 4-3-3 can be/is a pretty flawed formation unless you have the squad to rotate players out and everyone knows their jobs, depending on your interpretation and how you play. I think we're the perfect case study of that where we can look unstoppable when everyone is on it and can even compensate for the Grand Canyon between the defence and midfield etc, but when it's not working it falls apart and looks worse this season because, as someone mentioned in here or on another thread, we've stopped doing the "half space" runs in attack so we're predictable and easy to defend against unless we're physically dominant. The Champions League group stage home games against Benfica, PSV and Bilbao are a great example of that, we didn't play particularly well in those games, but we absolutely beasted them all physically and they couldn't live with us.

 

Here is the podcast I mentioned. As someone said above, it was John Gibson.

 

 

[Kid Icarus]

Think it's less a case about the system in itself being flawed, and more about needing to refresh the team a bit. Tbh, I don't even think we press all that much anymore anyway. That was very much a 2022 to 2024 thing, and we only really see us really going mad on pressing now in specific matches - Similar to the progression that Klopp had with Liverpool, but with obviously varying other factors at play with both teams - eg they kept their best player/s and improved, we didn't and haven't. 

 

 

Edited March 25 by Kid Icarus

[Holmesy]

1 hour ago, David Kelly said:

Fair? Seriously? When did all this happen exactly? When he saved us from relegation? Getting us to two cup finals, winning one of them? Two Champions League qualifications?

 

Is all of it based on this season where there has been a myriad of mitigating circumstances? 

I've read your posts mate and I'm not sure why you keep contributing to this debate. It's the same stuff over and over again. Of course, you are entitled to your views, that is absolutely fine but these points were challenged in very constructive way by people who are infinitely more articulate than I am and they made absolutely sweet FA difference. That is fine as well, if that's it then that's it but in future you may as well just write 'no previous success or mitigating circumstances makes any difference' and be done with it.

 

 

 

 

Firstly, they weren't challenged in a very constructive way at all. What was basically said for all of it was 'We lost Isak' and 'We lost a DoF'. That doesn't come close to explaining some of the things we are seeing on the pitch.
Yes, he has achieved all of that - incredible stuff. No one is trying to take that away from him. But there are essentially two schools of thought here - he will do it again because he's done it before, and his methods have hit a ceiling and he now needs to change stuff. You are clearly in the first camp, as is your right. I am in the second camp along with a growing number of fans. 

The best managers evolve when their ideas no longer bring the results they used to, or when their ideas no longer fit the situation.

If you can point to any part of our identity, approach, tactics or in-game management that have evolved, i'm all ears, genuinely. However, I suspect the response will be something along the lines of 'he won the cup last year' or 'we lost Isak', which is pretty standard for first-campers. It completely ignores the fact that things change and move on, and adaptation is needed to keep moving forward. 

I'm not trying to be rude mate, but the mitigating circumstances you're referring to don't come close to explaining why we can't defend for shit, why we let the opposition onto our back line so easily and expect our tired players to sprint half the length of the pitch to mop up, why we can't keep hold of the ball for more than 4-5 passes and why Europe for us seems to be more of a punishment than a reward.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I both respect yours and understand the reason for it. And I sincerely hope Eddie can turn things around but not by doing what we have done in the past because it has shown to not be sustainable long-term. Get back into Europe and we'll be back on the same hamster wheel. We need to see Eddie chapter 2.

 

 

Edited March 25 by Holmesy

[Kid Icarus]

40 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Firstly, they weren't challenged in a very constructive way at all. What was basically said for all of it was 'We lost Isak' and 'We lost a DoF'. That doesn't come close to explaining some of the things we are seeing on the pitch.
Yes, he has achieved all of that - incredible stuff. No one is trying to take that away from him. But there are essentially two schools of thought here - he will do it again because he's done it before, and his methods have hit a ceiling and he now needs to change stuff. You are clearly in the first camp, as is your right. I am in the second camp along with a growing number of fans. 

The best managers evolve when their ideas no longer bring the results they used to, or when their ideas no longer fit the situation.

If you can point to any part of our identity, approach, tactics or in-game management that have evolved, i'm all ears, genuinely. However, I suspect the response will be something along the lines of 'he won the cup last year' or 'we lost Isak', which is pretty standard for first-campers. 

I'm not trying to be rude mate, but the mitigating circumstances you're referring to don't come close to explaining why we can't defend for shit, why we let the opposition onto our back line so easily and expect our tired players to sprint half the length of the pitch to mop up, why we can't keep hold of the ball for more than 4-5 passes and why Europe for us seems to be more of a punishment than a reward.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I both respect yours and understand the reason for it. And I sincerely hope Eddie can turn things around but not by doing what we have done in the past because it has shown to not be sustainable long-term. Get back into Europe and we'll be back on the same hamster wheel. We need to see Eddie chapter 2.

 

It really does like. I have no idea why really simple concepts that we see time and time again in football are rejected in favour of more complicated and imo far less convincing theories about the efficacy of managers whose records are there for all to see and fly in the face of those theories. 

 

The style and effectiveness of a team's football being affected by:

• Lack of leadership at the top
• Lack of personnel at DoF level
• Ability to spend for 3 windows
• Manager's being spread too thinly
• Changes in backroom staff
• Squad overhauls
• Tactics overhauls due to key players leaving
• New players needing time to gel and get up to speed with tactics
• Overwhelming game schedules (partly as a result of staying in the cups I might add)
• Reduced training time impacting on how well and quickly they gel
• Players having no pre-season
• Players being injured
• Players being fatigued, not just physically but mentally
• Having to adjust the line ups and tactics to deal with all of the above
• and more that haven't come immediately to mind now
• and all of these things combining, impacting on each other, exacerbating the situation, and turning into a perfect storm

is a tale as old as time in football. We see it constantly, year on year, and it's not even just us that's dealing with it and failing as a result of it this year. To their own standards look at Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Palace, Forest, Wolves. All affected by one or more of the above, even Villa are in for a rude awakening soon imo. Most of those teams are dealing with a few of them and others, I'd argue we've been dealing with more or less all of them at the same time. 

 

With all of the above in mind, bypassing it to settle on 'this manager who has been overwhelmingly successful for the 3 and a half years before all of the above happened is what we should focus our attention on' will never not be mad to me. I don't know where the mentality comes from that all of the above is for the birds, and has nothing to do with how we play. 

 

 

Edited March 25 by Kid Icarus

[David Kelly]

32 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Firstly, they weren't challenged in a very constructive way at all. What was basically said for all of it was 'We lost Isak' and 'We lost a DoF'. That doesn't come close to explaining some of the things we are seeing on the pitch.
Yes, he has achieved all of that - incredible stuff. No one is trying to take that away from him. But there are essentially two schools of thought here - he will do it again because he's done it before, and his methods have hit a ceiling and he now needs to change stuff. You are clearly in the first camp, as is your right. I am in the second camp along with a growing number of fans. 

The best managers evolve when their ideas no longer bring the results they used to, or when their ideas no longer fit the situation.

If you can point to any part of our identity, approach, tactics or in-game management that have evolved, i'm all ears, genuinely. However, I suspect the response will be something along the lines of 'he won the cup last year' or 'we lost Isak', which is pretty standard for first-campers. It completely ignores the fact that things change and move on, and adaptation is needed to keep moving forward. 

I'm not trying to be rude mate, but the mitigating circumstances you're referring to don't come close to explaining why we can't defend for shit, why we let the opposition onto our back line so easily and expect our tired players to sprint half the length of the pitch to mop up, why we can't keep hold of the ball for more than 4-5 passes and why Europe for us seems to be more of a punishment than a reward.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I both respect yours and understand the reason for it. And I sincerely hope Eddie can turn things around but not by doing what we have done in the past because it has shown to not be sustainable long-term. Get back into Europe and we'll be back on the same hamster wheel. We need to see Eddie chapter 2.

 

 

 

 

 

33 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

However, I suspect the response will be something along the lines of 'he won the cup last year' or 'we lost Isak', which is pretty standard for first-campers.

 

Wrong for starters. See Kid Icarus post above for pretty much where I am and in more broad terms, the manager I have waited not a kick in the arse of 60 years for might be given a bit more grace because of what he has done for us.

Secondly, when did all this happen? When did he morph from a relegation saving, cup winning, twice champions league qualifying manager to the manager you say he is? Did he just wake up one morning and forget what to do or, and here's a wildcard for you, development of a manager isn't binary like you are implying and all the mitigating factors outlined by Kid Icarus actually do play a part, especially in a season that started on the back of a car crash summer like no other?

 

[BergenMagpie]

Want some "TOON IN TRAINING" content. Feels like its been ages now and I think all our summer signings will look like different players after a few months regular training with wor Eddie

[JT24]

4 minutes ago, BergenMagpie said:

Want some "TOON IN TRAINING" content. Feels like its been ages now and I think all our summer signings will look like different players after a few months regular training with wor Eddie

Eddie has BANNED it. Another reason to get rid, for me. 

[Mattoon]

This whole "losing Isak doesn't explain why we're so poor defensively" does my nut in, of course it has a knock on effect, you don't think the opposition play differently, more cautiously when they have a world class striker to worry about? It doesn't explain it all but it absolutely does have a knock on effect. Losing a player of Isak's quality also has a knock on effect to the confidence of the rest of the team, especially as the replacements look nowhere near it.

[Displayname]

There really isn't anything some of you guys can't find an excuse for