Eddie Howe

[Menace]

8 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Fair enough I always appreciate you sincere posts

 

I wish I agreed, Eddie's a legend and always will be in my books. It absolutely sucks to have zero faith that be will be able to turn it around. I wish my eyes were sending a different signal to my brain but I watch us and I'm bored to tears the same old set up week after week working or not we are going to try it again. 

 

I'm also not sure how a new striker fixes our flat midfield, our slow centre halves or or totally inability to create chances. 

 

We are absolutely flying towards a crossroad though and someone (probably the Saudi's) will have to decide weather to stick of twist. 

 

I agree with you. A good striker no doubt gets us in a better position league wise but there is still clear issues within our squad.

1. We've forgotten how to defend
2. Our midfield looks really disjointed
3. Our wingers are under performing

This is a far bigger cry than just a striker issue IMO - and like you said the cracks were starting to appear even when Isak was here and he would barely get a touch of the ball for 40 minutes.

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, Yorkie said:

 

I think the current failings are the result of a domino effect, basically. If the first stages of the season go better; hanging on against Liverpool, hanging on against arsenal, hanging on against Spurs, pinching a win at Villa Park or Leeds... doesn't even have to be all of them, just two or three, and we're playing with a lot more confidence and having a better season. We missed Wissa tremendously in the first knockings of the season.

Why are defaulting to missed Wissa? I don't understand it given he's been absolutely shit and looked totally disinterested. Do ya mean missed a proper striker? 

 

It's a tricky one for me, I do understand your logic but it's just a bit ifs buts and maybes. 

[Abacus]

On the striker point, I do think a part of the poor play is due to not having a cutting edge - attacks just peter out and don't have a real focal point. Woltemade so far doesn't seem to be that either, so far anyway. Exactly what he is is a bit open to debate.

 

Not that there aren't problems with the rest of the team, I won't deny that at all, but that one thing alone does have a big impact on how cohesive a team is, and what it's overall shape is.

 

Annoyingly, leaving aside the price / age factor I was quite happy with Wissa as an option. Then of course the injury and the season starts to crumble.

 

I think all these signings needed sign off, so Howe will be aware that he'll have used up a great deal of personal credit in doing so. He said himself that you live or die by your recruitment. That summer might prove his point and unfortunately not in the way he'd hoped.

 

I don't think they were all bad by any means, and a few hits, but there definitely look to have been some expensive misses based on the bench alone yesterday.

[NUFC91]

1 hour ago, St1pe said:

I do wish as a fan base we could just take this shit season on the chin and not collectively piss the bed over it. For me Howe deserves more time and another window (hopefully the board improve on what was signed last season).

 

Some of the shit that’s been said about Howe has been pathetic. We won a cup and qualified for the Champions League last year and one mid-table season has season has sent some of you lot west. It’s the same sorts of people of made up mad stuff about Gordon and Tonali. Slating them claiming they wanted to be away but don’t seem capable of loyalty in return to someone who’s deserved it. 
 

For the record this season has been shit, the football has been miserable and we’ve suffered constant morale crushing results at key times. Rarely have we put teams away or chained good feeling. It’s been utterly deflating and Howe takes a good chunk of the blame too. 
 

Give the bloke a chance to redeem it though because he’s surely deserves a shot. 

 

I'm getting a bit bored of this making out like we are entitled, just an idea of this season's results and reactions of fans:

 

1. Arsenal lose top of league and some boos and talks of Arteta goes in summer if they don't win the league.

2. Brighton booed off after losing to Palace and talks of a new manager needed by their fan base.

3. Thomas Frank sacked

4. Everton fans making lot of noise at Christmas that Moyes should be gone following poor home results.

5. Palace fans with a banner against their Manager who won them their first major honours.

6. Sunderland fans questioning their manager who got them back in top flight after 10 years absent and wanted him moved off if lost at st James park.

 

But we are entitled as fans are worried as we sat 14th in table after getting beat by a 2nd string Palace side with no reaction following a derby day defeat.

 

I love Eddie Howe and the fans should get behind the team for remainder of the seaon but you can't call fans entitled/bed wetters for being unhappy with this season, we are 4 points behind Sunderland who took 6 points off us..

 

 

Edited April 13 by NUFC91

[Yorkie]

14 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

18 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

I think the current failings are the result of a domino effect, basically. If the first stages of the season go better; hanging on against Liverpool, hanging on against arsenal, hanging on against Spurs, pinching a win at Villa Park or Leeds... doesn't even have to be all of them, just two or three, and we're playing with a lot more confidence and having a better season. We missed Wissa tremendously in the first knockings of the season.

Why are defaulting to missed Wissa? I don't understand it given he's been absolutely shit and looked totally disinterested. Do ya mean missed a proper striker? 

 

It's a tricky one for me, I do understand your logic but it's just a bit ifs buts and maybes. 

 

Yes, exactly. I was just shorthanding that to Wissa. 

[Holmesy]

26 minutes ago, GavMcEl said:

This is the main thing for me, I feel you can add a couple of more names to that list, like alonso and poch... but I fear getting  rid of howe to bring in someone like a iraola or glasner could be a massive gamble that could set the club even further back

It's too simplistic a view IMO. A fresh set of ideas and a new voice often injects new momentum. Look at Man Utd - no one is suggesting Carrick is of the requisite quality to manage a club like Man Utd long term but a fresh approach and new ideas have seen them kick on. We are stale as fuck at the moment in every department. It's not often a manager stays as long as Eddie has and when he is so wedded to his ways and staff, that's a long time to try and keep players motivated and engaged.
Longevity worked for Fergie because he constantly renewed his coaching staff and assistant managers. It works for Pep because he continually evolves. The best comparison with Eddie is Wenger - what worked for Wenger for the first few years brought results and trophies but he never deviated and eventually it became stale.

I just don't buy this idea that a new manager instantly sets us back at all. We have solid foundations, some seriously good players in the squad and the ambition to compete at the top table. It could be exactly the what the club and team need.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think most of our promising attacks end well before a striker would make a difference TBH. Either one of Murphy, Tino, Tonali and even Gordon (and others) will make a technical mistake and miss a pass or miscontrol a ball and we’ll give it away. 
 

Part ability and part confidence I guess. 
 

Of course a functioning striker might scramble a goal or two that would boost the results and therefore confidence. But the problems are further back in the team as well. 

 

 

Edited April 13 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Yorkie]

40 minutes ago, Menace said:

 

I agree with you. A good striker no doubt gets us in a better position league wise but there is still clear issues within our squad.

1. We've forgotten how to defend
2. Our midfield looks really disjointed
3. Our wingers are under performing

This is a far bigger cry than just a striker issue IMO - and like you said the cracks were starting to appear even when Isak was here and he would barely get a touch of the ball for 40 minutes.

 

I agree with that as well. However, results (and, by extension, league position) dictate the mood and my central point is that, despite everything, we're only a couple of results away from totally different vibes. If Wissa has like six or seven PL goals - literally if he's just anything other than utterly useless - the whole conversation is different imo.

[KaKa]

20 minutes ago, Abacus said:

I think all these signings needed sign off, so Howe will be aware that he'll have used up a great deal of personal credit in doing so. He said himself that you live or die by your recruitment. That summer might prove his point and unfortunately not in the way he'd hoped.

 

I don't think they were all bad by any means, and a few hits, but there definitely look to have been some expensive misses based on the bench alone yesterday.

 

The decision to continuously spend larger sums on a few positions while neglecting the wider squad has been an absolute back breaker.

 

We actually went into this season with Dan Burn as the backup option at left back and Trippier as the backup option at right back. We still don't have an alternative option to Bruno, that can give anywhere near the type of creativity he brings. We still don't have a true defensive midfielder that can control a game to any extent. 

 

A weak squad playing a high intensity system like Howe prefers is just ridiculous and always has been. Or does he genuinely still see the likes of Burn and Trippier as viable options in the full back positions? That would be far more concerning. The money just hasn't been utilised effectively enough.

 

Ultimately I agree. The recruitment decisions will likely be his downfall. He seems more open to a different approach going forward now, but if the season ends on a really bad note, he might not get the chance as it may be too late.

[Kid Icarus]

3 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

I agree with that as well. However, results (and, by extension, league position) dictate the mood and my central point is that, despite everything, we're only a couple of results away from totally different vibes. If Wissa has like six or seven PL goals - literally if he's just anything other than utterly useless - the whole conversation is different imo.

Amen. Everything is reverse engineered from our shit results. 

[Minhosa]

Just reflecting on this apparent mentality problem we have and it absolutely should inform some of our summer transfer business. 
 

We need to sign some players with character, backbone and balls. Who are up for a fight. 
 

We’re now a squad full of softcocks. There’s barely any you’d want alongside you when the going gets tough. 
 

Off the top of my head;

 

• Tino
• Botman
• Thiaw
• Miley
• Ramsay
• Willock
• Elanga
• Murphy
• Wissa
• Woltemade
• Osula
• Barnes

Not one of them are you taking into a battle with you. Not one. None of the above have a nasty edge……
 

The derbies are a great example of this. Mentally weak, spineless and not a pair of balls amongst that lot. 
 

Whoever the manager is this summer, they need the support of players with character and a willingness to take accountability. 
 

We could’ve done a lot worse than signing Xhaka last summer and we should target one or two players of that profile imho. 
 

As exciting as it is being linked with the next big thing out of Europe or South America, you need a certain type of manager to install character into a squad. The club will have a real challenge on that front if they part ways with Howe imho because, take someone like Jose for example, he’ll have no interest in developing kids which is now essentially what the club need. Hopkinson hinted at it in his spiel a fortnight ago. 
 

There’s going to be a big challenge for Wilson etc in his next appointment because, when we’re crying out for ‘men’ on the pitch, the model will be geared more towards ‘boys with high ceilings’. That has to inform the next managerial appointment or the decision to stick with Howe. 
 

If we want a competitive mentality, we’ve got to give him the tools to do that job. You can’t flood the squad with kids and say ‘develop them so they can be sold for huge profit’ without realising you’re probably sacrificing short term results…

 

 

Edited April 13 by Minhosa

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, KaKa said:

 

The decision to continuously spend larger sums on a few positions while neglecting the wider squad has been an absolute back breaker.

 

We actually went into this season with Dan Burn as the backup option at left back and Trippier as the backup option at right back. We still don't have an alternative option to Bruno, that can give anywhere near the type of creativity he brings. We still don't have a true defensive midfielder that can control a game to any extent. 

 

A weak squad playing a high intensity system like Howe prefers is just ridiculous and always has been. Or does he genuinely still see the likes of Burn and Trippier as viable options in the full back positions? That would be far more concerning. The money just hasn't been utilised effectively enough.

 

Ultimately I agree. The recruitment decisions will likely be his downfall. He seems more open to a different approach going forward now, but if the season ends on a really bad note, he might not get the chance as it may be too late.

Last summer was a total mess. Because we seemed to sign depth options rather than real class.. and we still lacked depth.

 

The fullback thing was a shocker from day one. We started the season with 3 first-team fullbacks, 1 being 35. Then we let the RB/LB hybrid play an U21 tournament in the summer - a 50+ game, no break season into this season. And people are mocking him for picking up injuries this season.

 

Thiaw and Elanga aside - the profiles of all the signings were weird imo. The quality of nearly all the transfers is questionable.

 

All time horror show.

[TheInfiniteOdyssey]

1 minute ago, Minhosa said:

 

Great post and I would argue it's a major reason why we've conceded so many late goals. The character issue was at its most acute (imo) in that second half against Barcelona, the way we conceded those goals was absolutely mortifying. You could clearly see how their heads dropped and they were just shellshocked. 

[Groundhog63]

38 minutes ago, NUFC91 said:

 

I'm getting a bit bored of this making out like we are entitled, just an idea of this season's results and reactions of fans:

 

1. Arsenal lose top of league and some boos and talks of Arteta goes in summer if they don't win the league.

2. Brighton booed off after losing to Palace and talks of a new manager needed by their fan base.

3. Thomas Frank sacked

4. Everton fans making lot of noise at Christmas that Moyes should be gone following poor home results.

5. Palace fans with a banner against their Manager who won them their first major honours.

6. Sunderland fans questioning their manager who got them back in top flight after 10 years absent and wanted him moved off if lost at st James park.

 

But we are entitled as fans are worried as we sat 14th in table after getting beat by a 2nd string Palace side with no reaction following a derby day defeat.

 

I love Eddie Howe and the fans should get behind the team for remainder of the seaon but you can't call fans entitled/bed wetters for being unhappy with this season, we are 4 points behind Sunderland who took 6 points off us..

 

 

 

 

The bit you're missing is 1.2.3.4.5 & 6 are entitled as well. 

[Minhosa]

Just now, The College Dropout said:

Last summer was a total mess. Because we seemed to sign depth options rather than real class.. and we still lacked depth.

 

The fullback thing was a shocker from day one. We started the season with 3 first-team fullbacks, 1 being 35. Then we let the RB/LB hybrid play an U21 tournament in the summer - a 50+ game, no break season into this season. And people are mocking him for picking up injuries this season.

 

Thiaw and Elanga aside - the profiles of all the signings were weird imo. The quality of nearly all the transfers is questionable.

 

All time horror show.

There was nothing right about the targeting of Elanga either. He was never what we needed and he never will be btw. 
 

At least Wissa has the excuse of a serious injury. Elanga plays like he’s suffered a serious brain injury. He’s fucking useless. 

[The College Dropout]

Leadership and character was one of the big positives of signing Guehi imo.

 

It's also the big part of signig Tonali at the time too but we've failed to build on it since that summer.

 

For the fees - I liked Norgaard and Xhaka last summer. I thought we needed that. We need that blend, any PL team does.

 

All that purely focussing on youngsters stuff can turn you into Spurs.

[Infinitely Content]

I hope we can just show some signs of life in the last 6 games, I don't mean winning every game, but just not suffering the same demoralising defeats like Palace and Sunderland. I just want to see a shift in energy and signs that the players are still engaged  - we're not really playing for anything anymore so there shouldn't be any heaviness or lethargy to the performances. We should be able to play freely, boost morale, build some momentum and see clearly that the players are still responding and Howe's methods are still inspiring. 

More of the Palace/Sunderland type defeats may spell the end for him and I really don't want that to happen.

[Minhosa]

1 minute ago, TheInfiniteOdyssey said:

Great post and I would argue it's a major reason why we've conceded so many late goals. The character issue was at its most acute (imo) in that second half against Barcelona, the way we conceded those goals was absolutely mortifying. You could clearly see how their heads dropped and they were just shellshocked. 

Agreed. It’s the main reason my number one target this summer, whilst probably wholly unrealistic, would be Bernardo Silva. A nasty winner who’s played every occasion and would lead kids like Miley through the next 3 years brilliantly. He’d be our new Trippier but better. 

[The College Dropout]

Just now, TheInfiniteOdyssey said:

Great post and I would argue it's a major reason why we've conceded so many late goals. The character issue was at its most acute (imo) in that second half against Barcelona, the way we conceded those goals was absolutely mortifying. You could clearly see how their heads dropped and they were just shellshocked. 

I always thought the 2-6 was the end of the SBR reign. We never recovered mentally from that.

 

Barca result could have been similar. It's like when a boxer suddenly gets a real beating. They are often never the same.

 

On the flip side - the team that one the League Cup was the strongest team of characters we've had. The star man left, the stalwarts at the back have aged another year. It's tough.

[Minhosa]

3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Leadership and character was one of the big positives of signing Guehi imo.

 

It's also the big part of signig Tonali at the time too but we've failed to build on it since that summer.

 

For the fees - I liked Norgaard and Xhaka last summer. I thought we needed that. We need that blend, any PL team does.

 

All that purely focussing on youngsters stuff can turn you into Spurs.

I’m certain that’s why Howe wanted Guehi. His leadership. PL captain at 23/24 years old. Leader. 

[Minhosa]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

I always thought the 2-6 was the end of the SBR reign. We never recovered mentally from that.

 

Barca result could have been similar. It's like when a boxer suddenly gets a real beating. They are often never the same.

 

On the flip side - the team that one the League Cup was the strongest team of characters we've had. The star man left, the stalwarts at the back have aged another year. It's tough.

The home derby is what’s killed him. Win that and all is ok tbh. Takes a lot to turn things around when you lose your home crowd.  

[jackyboy]

This is the first year that we have regressed under Howe. The poison set in because of the Isak disaster and the players have been badly affected.  

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, Infinitely Content said:

I hope we can just show some signs of life in the last 6 games, I don't mean winning every game, but just not suffering the same demoralising defeats like Palace and Sunderland. I just want to see a shift in energy and signs that the players are still engaged  - we're not really playing for anything anymore so there shouldn't be any heaviness or lethargy to the performances. We should be able to play freely, boost morale, build some momentum and see clearly that the players are still responding and Howe's methods are still inspiring. 

More of the Palace/Sunderland type defeats may spell the end for him and I really don't want that to happen.

Agreed. We need to end strongly.

 

Latter day Wenger would finish strongly or win a cup. To show there's still life in the project.

[Minhosa]

Just now, jackyboy said:

This is the first year that we have regressed under Howe. The poison set in because of the Isak disaster and the players have been badly affected.  

Could have been salvaged with good summer business. 

[500bhp]

1 hour ago, St1pe said:

I do wish as a fan base we could just take this shit season on the chin and not collectively piss the bed over it. For me Howe deserves more time and another window (hopefully the board improve on what was signed last season).

 

Some of the shit that’s been said about Howe has been pathetic. We won a cup and qualified for the Champions League last year and one mid-table season has season has sent some of you lot west. It’s the same sorts of people of made up mad stuff about Gordon and Tonali. Slating them claiming they wanted to be away but don’t seem capable of loyalty in return to someone who’s deserved it. 
 

For the record this season has been shit, the football has been miserable and we’ve suffered constant morale crushing results at key times. Rarely have we put teams away or chained good feeling. It’s been utterly deflating and Howe takes a good chunk of the blame too. 
 

Give the bloke a chance to redeem it though because he’s surely deserves a shot. 

 

We've progressively got worse in the league the longer the season has gone on. I was concerned months ago but people on here kept saying we are only 3 points off CL, then it was only 6 points and now its, well, fuck knows how far off we are. I was concerned after the away derby but was told it was a one off, and then the home derby which presumably was a two off! 

 

Then I was told we'll be OK once its one game per week. That worked yesterday against a team with a shit home record, who always lose if they go behind and who rested their best players. 

 

We make the same mistakes game after game. He doesn't know his best back four or his best front three. His subs are reactive not proactive. I still think he's a very good manager who can improve poor or average players with enough coaching time. Less sure he can improve good or very good players, or maybe that's a bit harsh. He'll leave Newcastle and do very well in his next job I've no doubt. But his journey here is over. I expect us to lose on Saturday (I'll be there giving 100% support to Howe and the players with no booing from me during the game) but won't be surprised if he resigns after. He looks well beaten and needs a rest and time to reset. He deserves to go on his terms before it gets really nasty. 

 

How bad does it need to get for you to think about changing the manager? 16th or 18th or worse.