Eddie Howe

[Collage]

29 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I also think that the constant pointing to the examples of KK and Robson is quite the ‘gotcha’ he thinks tbh.

 

KK said in his autobiography that he was burned out and offered to go at the end of 95/96.  He offered again after Blackburn on Boxing Day 1996 (I was there with my dad - it was fucking dire).  Then he offered to go at the end of the season - which was agreed, until a rug-pull due to the proposed floatation.  After almost five years on the NUFC rollercoaster, and a top man and top manager - a club legend - was absolutely spent, needing a break from football.  Sounds familiar. 
 

Robson was also a success - two CL-qualifying spot finishes, some great matches and players.  But after almost five years, the performances had started to turn and eventually to nose-dive - after a summer chasing unrealistic targets which didn’t materialise, some really poor signings, and a dressing room which had stopped listening, time was up for him too.  Sounds familiar, again. 
 

The lesson from KK and Robson isn’t that club legends should be in the seat forever (and Howe is up there with them), it’s that you have to make sure you get the next appointment right.

I agree, but in both mentioned cases, we didn’t. So it’s understandable that some are reluctant to let go of Eddie.

[Kid Icarus]

And you could definitely argue that Dalglish was the right appointment at the time as well. It's only really with the benefit of hindsight that it's seen as the start of a decline.

[Collage]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

And you could definitely argue that Dalglish was the right appointment at the time as well. It's only really with the benefit of hindsight that it's seen as the start of a decline.

True. Dalglish had just won the league with Blackburn and had worked with some of our best players like Shearer and Batty. He could easily be seen as a step up from Keegan.

[Kid Icarus]

3 minutes ago, Collage said:

True. Dalglish had just won the league with Blackburn and had worked with some of our best players like Shearer and Batty. He could easily be seen as a step up from Keegan.

Probably the most highly decorated manager we've ever had when he arrived. Won pretty much the lot domestically as Liverpool manager. 

[TheBrownBottle]

29 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

You're labouring something that's incredibly simple. We don't demand a team that wins, we demand a club that tries. Its simplicity and lack of grey area is why it was an effective message. 

 

Like I say, fair enough to say you disagree with it, fair enough to say that you think it no longer applies, but to deny its original meaning is getting into Jordon Peterson levels of 'what do you mean by "is" level over-analysis. IMHO anyway.

 

I’m not far from wondering what lobsters would consider winning  

[TheBrownBottle]

16 minutes ago, Collage said:

I agree, but in both mentioned cases, we didn’t. So it’s understandable that some are reluctant to let go of Eddie.

Yeah, completely.  If there are any group of supporters who are likely to feel the weight of past failures it is our lot

[TheInfiniteOdyssey]

12 hours ago, Whitley mag said:

The defeats have been fucking cowardly at times this season and compounded by 2 of the meekest Derby surrenders I’ve witnessed.

 

That winner was fucking embarrassing on Saturday and  just one of many this season.

 

The fact that half the team don’t look arsed is one of the most damning aspects for Howe currently, if he can’t get a reaction after that derby performance it suggests deep lying issues in the camp.

 

 

 

I don't think the coaching team and players have really grasped the importance of the derbies for our fans tbh. We looked way too 'nice' in these games and it feeds into a wider point for me where we have a team full of softies. All our players, with the exception of a couple, are just are too fucking nice. They're not making big challenges, they don't even get in the ref's face after a decision. Newcastle teams always need a bit of nastiness, grit and an edge to them. That's completely gone this season imo!

[kingxlnc]

I think one lesson is that Newcastle and Liverpool are both 'working class hero' type football clubs with their own identity. Never mix the two, especially in the modern era. 

Dalglish, Souness, Rush, Barnes, Owen - all Liverpool legends, absolutely dire here. 
Carroll and Isak have been resounding expensive failures for Liverpool.

There have been decent successes for non-important players - Wijnaldum, Hamann, Shelvey, Enrique, Milner

The only unifying forces are Kevin Keegan, Terry McDermott and Peter Beardsley who are highly regarded by both but over 40 years ago. 

[Rich]

Think a lot of us on here are quite protective of the 'We don't demand a team that wins' banner and messaging, because it originated from here, was taken around the country by posters from here, and seemed to strike a chord with fans outside of this bubble (and the media) at the time and for many years beyond.

 

There's no denying that it gets tiresome seeing it trotted out as a rebuttal to people complaining about things these days; however, as things have moved on quite significantly in the last decade or more.

 

We got what we wanted, and we still have what we wanted, but we're never going to have perfection, which is what it seems some people desire. As long as the club is 'trying', I can give them the benefit, though like many I'd like to see certain things moving faster, changing, etc.

[TheBrownBottle]

7 minutes ago, kingxlnc said:

I think one lesson is that Newcastle and Liverpool are both 'working class hero' type football clubs with their own identity. Never mix the two, especially in the modern era. 

Dalglish, Souness, Rush, Barnes, Owen - all Liverpool legends, absolutely dire here. 
Carroll and Isak have been resounding expensive failures for Liverpool.

There have been decent successes for non-important players - Wijnaldum, Hamann, Shelvey, Enrique, Milner

The only unifying forces are Kevin Keegan, Terry McDermott and Peter Beardsley who are highly regarded by both but over 40 years ago. 

The Albert Stubbins Appreciation Society will be sending a strongly-worded rebuttal to your inbox  

[Monters]

5 minutes ago, kingxlnc said:

I think one lesson is that Newcastle and Liverpool are both 'working class hero' type football clubs with their own identity. Never mix the two, especially in the modern era. 

Dalglish, Souness, Rush, Barnes, Owen - all Liverpool legends, absolutely dire here. 
Carroll and Isak have been resounding expensive failures for Liverpool.

There have been decent successes for non-important players - Wijnaldum, Hamann, Shelvey, Enrique, Milner

The only unifying forces are Kevin Keegan, Terry McDermott and Peter Beardsley who are highly regarded by both but over 40 years ago. 

Harsh on Rush and Barnes in IMHO as neither should have been anywhere near here and Dalglish is to blame for that... You could see from Barnes how good he had been just from a couple of touches \ passes but his legs had gone and Rush was simply finished and had been for years.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Never forget John Barnes was our top scorer. 

[Antipode23]

It's an interesting phenomenon, how the overall tone of this thread tends to shift between our latest loss, and the next game. In the first 24 hours or so, there's quite unanimous support for the Howe out position it seems, but this begins to cool over subsequent days, and by the next game there is quite a lot of optimism again.

 

Some of it will be emotion making way for rationality, and that can be good. But I would argue that the negative emotions after our recent losses are not necessarily unjustified/unhelpful, at least not entirely, and that once the anger and frustration settles, there's a risk that we can be unduly blinded to the reality of our situation by memories of past glories, and a sense of duty to Howe for his role in them.

 

In other words, maybe we're right to be angry? And maybe we can be immensely grateful to Eddie, but also of the view that he's well and truly come to the end of the road? Those views don't have to be mutually exclusive.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Or maybe the more optimistic view is right and we should keep him because Howe out is overly emotional after defeats. I like this game. 

 

 

Edited April 21 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Antipode23]

1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Or maybe the more optimistic view is right and we should keep him because Howe out is overly emotional after defeats. I like this game. 

 

 

 

 

Nah. You're overly sentimental. Pull yourself together man!

[Holloway]

Alan Kennedy was mint for both us and Liverpool

[kingxlnc]

I don't mind if they want to give us Szobsozlai and we can try and break the curse

[NSG]

 

[Dr.Spaceman]

Do people want statements after each loss like 

[bobbydazzla]

If I had a quid for every time a manager gets backing from their Board and then goes on to get sacked not long after, I'd have a few quid.

 

 

Edited April 21 by bobbydazzla

[TBG]

Wilson and Hopkinson must be delighted there's no statement, would mean them doing some actual work if there was one to put out. 

[Miggys First Goal]

 

[TheEntertainer]

50 minutes ago, Antipode23 said:

It's an interesting phenomenon, how the overall tone of this thread tends to shift between our latest loss, and the next game. In the first 24 hours or so, there's quite unanimous support for the Howe out position it seems, but this begins to cool over subsequent days, and by the next game there is quite a lot of optimism again.

 

Some of it will be emotion making way for rationality, and that can be good. But I would argue that the negative emotions after our recent losses are not necessarily unjustified/unhelpful, at least not entirely, and that once the anger and frustration settles, there's a risk that we can be unduly blinded to the reality of our situation by memories of past glories, and a sense of duty to Howe for his role in them.

 

In other words, maybe we're right to be angry? And maybe we can be immensely grateful to Eddie, but also of the view that he's well and truly come to the end of the road? Those views don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I think a lot of the change of tone is from the posters posting over time. I posted a fair amount over the first two days (I'm Howe out, though still love him for what he's done) but kind of feel like I'd just be repeating myself if I kept posting so I've dropped off while still feeling exactly the same. I imagine a lot of the Howe in guys don't massively feel like defending him on the day of a defeat when the sentiment is overwhelmingly negative either. So I doubt many people have gone from out to in, it's more just different people posting. 

[The College Dropout]

My biggest fear with PIF is that they are demanding owners that don’t provide ppl with what they need to succeed. Forever chopping and changing managers, DOFs, CEOs.  

That will end in relegation.  

[Toon No9]

25 minutes ago, Miggys First Goal said:

 

Wonder what happend under theese 12 min between Ryders tweets?