Eddie Howe

[Monters]

Now compare the team / position Howe took over with the one Dalglish did. 

[Interpolic]

16 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

100% agreed - 13th place despite him getting us into the CL the year before, beating Barca in the CL and going on a cup run weren’t close to being good enough.  We looked to be flirting with relegation at one point. 
 

I just find it ironic seeing folks try to justify not changing manager due to the drop-off, yet all the excuses applied to Howe could just as easily have been applied to Dalglish - and in 97/98 we could recover from a bad season much quicker due to the lack of FFP. 

 

Absurd comparison. 

 

Dalglish took over someone else's team that nearly won the league the previous season, was within 3 points of 2nd that season and guided them into 2nd. A bit of credit in the bank for him as a result but not much. We all know what happened after, in his first full season. 

 

Howe took over a team joint bottom of the league on 5 points in November and got them well safe on 49 points by the end of the season. Then 4th, 7th, 5th. 2 Champions League campaigns, 1 trophy after decades of waiting, 1 final, various semis and quarters.

 

The scenarios aren't remotely similar. 

[TheBrownBottle]

8 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

 

Absurd comparison. 

 

Dalglish took over someone else's team that nearly won the league the previous season, was within 3 points of 2nd that season and guided them into 2nd. A bit of credit in the bank for him as a result but not much. We all know what happened after, in his first full season. 

 

Howe took over a team joint bottom of the league on 5 points in November and got them well safe on 49 points by the end of the season. Then 4th, 7th, 5th. 2 Champions League campaigns, 1 trophy after decades of waiting, 1 final, various semis and quarters.

 

The scenarios aren't remotely similar. 

The original absurdist comparison wasn’t made by me.  It’s possible to go reductio ad absurdum when someone keeps referring to Souness and Dalglish as some sort of proof of why Howe should keep his job.  Perfect comparisons don’t exist - and I also think Dalglish should have been sacked.  

I also think Howe’s ran out of ideas and has misspent a large sum of money, which in the current FFP climate makes it very difficult to claw our way back.  I don’t think anyone has suggested that Howe hasn’t done a good job, but for some of us the writing is on the wall and it’s going in a completely different direction.  He’s been backed to the hilt - he hasn’t magicked the results up out of nowhere (nor should he be expected to).  The results in 21/22 didn’t turn around until money was spent and new players through the door.  
 

This all boils down to whether or not a person thinks we’ve got a better chance of kicking on with Howe in situ or not.  I’m not convinced anymore that this is the case - you disagree.  I don’t feel I owe Eddie Howe some sort of personal loyalty or fealty - he’s a man who is well rewarded to produce results as a football manager.  Had the present rules been in place a couple of decades back, my thoughts would have been the same re KK or BR.  If FFP wasn’t in place, I’d be completely supportive of Howe getting another spin at the wheel. 

[Decky]

Our forward line needs a rebuild if he has any chance next year. It's absolutely piss poor at the minute. Nearly 200m invested into it last summer too. 

[Kanj]

Time to take a break, lads. I am. We all need it. 

[duo]

1 hour ago, Decky said:

Our forward line needs a rebuild if he has any chance next year. It's absolutely piss poor at the minute. Nearly 200m invested into it last summer too. 

We need to sort out our defending first- a quality keeper HAS to be the priority. In 22/23 we had one of the best defences in the league. Is it 27 points lost from winning positions? Imagine where we'd be if we'd held onto most of them? CL for sure.

[RobsonsWonderland]

I think it all comes down to your personal preference and you can make any story fit whatever narrative you wish to spin.

 

I.e. Last summer was all down to Howe and his bad buys.

 

Or

 

Howe told the club to do their business early and watched them fail on numerous bids for players he wanted.

 

 

Wissa was a terrible buy and we all knew he would fail 

 

Or

 

Wissa scored 20 goals last year and his injury has changed his movement 

 

It's just the way football is... Hopefully we get it right this year, buy early, buy the players the manager wants (or at least his 2nd or 3rd options) and try and reunited as a tean and a fanbase

 

 

Edited May 26 by RobsonsWonderland

[Decky]

2 hours ago, duo said:

We need to sort out our defending first- a quality keeper HAS to be the priority. In 22/23 we had one of the best defences in the league. Is it 27 points lost from winning positions? Imagine where we'd be if we'd held onto most of them? CL for sure.

 

Honestly the rebuild is massive, it's basically in every area of the team. We either need a new first 11 player or a decent back up for every position.

 

Up front, Gordon and Murphy probably leave. Wissa and Elanga are awful if we're being honest and I'm not sure Howe knows what to do with Wolt. The whole thing is a disaster and needs sorting asap or we'll struggle to put teams away next year. 

 

The defence has been really weak but at the same time if we were better up front teams wouldn't be within a goal of us or drawing in the closing stages. You need strong forwards to take pressure off of the defence. 

 

 

Edited May 26 by Decky

[oldtype]

If you think he should be fired for misspending money, he's no longer running transfers so he's technically been "fired" from that already. 

 

And if you think the bad, horrible, not good summer spending caused our struggles this year, well, Howe will now get a season to prove what he can do after a window where actual competent professionals are in charge of transfers. He's done pretty well in that situation so far.

[Viana]

10 minutes ago, oldtype said:

If you think he should be fired for misspending money, he's no longer running transfers so he's technically been "fired" from that already. 

 

And if you think the bad, horrible, not good summer spending caused our struggles this year, well, Howe will now get a season to prove what he can do after a window where actual competent professionals are in charge of transfers. He's done pretty well in that situation so far.

I do think there's a broader debate to be had about competing on multiple fronts under Eddie Howe. 

 

Unai Emery has managed to keep Aston Villa up there in the league while going on a decent Champions League run and winning the Europa League. I would argue their tactical ideas couldn't be more different, but I think we all want to avoid the boom and bust cycle of finishing 4th, then dropping to 7th/8th (or in the case of this season 12th). Emery hasn't cracked the code, but he's got closer than Howe. 

[Conjo]

2 hours ago, duo said:

We need to sort out our defending first- a quality keeper HAS to be the priority. In 22/23 we had one of the best defences in the league. Is it 27 points lost from winning positions? Imagine where we'd be if we'd held onto most of them? CL for sure.

 

Wouldn't even need half of the points lost from winning positions to qualify for CL as the table ended this season

 

While it's a big worry, it also gives hope in a way since we've been able to take the lead in so many games? It would be worse if we simply drew or lost all those games from the start, even if dropping points late in the game obviously is heart breaking. 

[Mattoon]

1 hour ago, Conjo said:

 

Wouldn't even need half of the points lost from winning positions to qualify for CL as the table ended this season

 

While it's a big worry, it also gives hope in a way since we've been able to take the lead in so many games? It would be worse if we simply drew or lost all those games from the start, even if dropping points late in the game obviously is heart breaking. 

 

When you look at it that way it hasn't been the disaster everyone feels it has, just a few moments in a few games and the landscape looks very different.

 

The spine of the team needs fixing first and foremost, a new keeper, a couple of players through the middle of the team and some better options up front. It doesn't even need to be wholesale changes, just fresh faces, fresh legs and new ideas tp shake the team up.

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, Mattoon said:

 

When you look at it that way it hasn't been the disaster everyone feels it has, just a few moments in a few games and the landscape looks very different.

 

The spine of the team needs fixing first and foremost, a new keeper, a couple of players through the middle of the team and some better options up front. It doesn't even need to be wholesale changes, just fresh faces, fresh legs and new ideas tp shake the team up.

I really don't think we should look at it that way though, im sure we all watched many games this season and thought we were well below par. I know I did. 

 

Looking at next season we will need as follows for the first team alone imo. 

 

New keeper to start

New right back to start (to replace tino)

A Sandro Tonali replacement. 

A new right winger to start. 

A new left winger to start 

A new striker to start. 

 

We need starters for half the team. 

[500bhp]

I think too many people are overlooking Howe the person, not just Howe the football manager. Those of us old fuckers who were adults for the KK era will remember that for his last few months he looked shattered, less spark in interviews, self doubt had started, and as we found out later he had offered to resign before he eventually did. 

 

I see these similarities with Howe today. That's why I think him leaving by mutual consent is best for all. He has the KK look just before he left. Hope I'm wrong but I don’t think he has the energy, fight or self confidence to oversee the massive rebuild that's required. All just IMO of course. 

[Mattoon]

8 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

I really don't think we should look at it that way though, im sure we all watched many games this season and thought we were well below par. I know I did. 

 

Looking at next season we will need as follows for the first team alone imo. 

 

New keeper to start

New right back to start (to replace tino)

A Sandro Tonali replacement. 

A new right winger to start. 

A new left winger to start 

A new striker to start. 

 

We need starters for half the team. 

 

I don't reject what you're saying, but I watched a lot of games this season and it has been a crap season all round, even the likes of City, Liverpool and the holy grail that is Villa played some turgid stuff at times, but ground out some results that kept them up there, Bournemouth and Brighton were in with a chance of CL football right up to the last day. It doesn't take away from our poor season but we definitely weren't an outlier.

 

I genuinely think we have a great chance to bounce back next season, it looks like we'll get a fair whack for some of our want-away players and the rebuild will pay for itself, it's down to Wilson now to give Howe something to work with and I'm genuinely excited to see how it pans out. 

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, Mattoon said:

 

I don't reject what you're saying, but I watched a lot of games this season and it has been a crap season all round, even the likes of City, Liverpool and the holy grail that is Villa played some turgid stuff at times, but ground out some results that kept them up there, Bournemouth and Brighton were in with a chance of CL football right up to the last day. It doesn't take away from our poor season but we definitely weren't an outlier.

 

I genuinely think we have a great chance to bounce back next season, it looks like we'll get a fair whack for some of our want-away players and the rebuild will pay for itself, it's down to Wilson now to give Howe something to work with and I'm genuinely excited to see how it pans out. 

We have to bounce back next season, that's without question. 

 

Football wasn't great across the league I agree, but we were especially rotten. Not a single player with double figures for goals in the league if I'm not mistaken. Awful stuff. 

 

Massive summer ahead for everyone involved, hope we've got some stuff lined up before the world cup. 

[Mattoon]

8 minutes ago, 500bhp said:

I think too many people are overlooking Howe the person, not just Howe the football manager. Those of us old fuckers who were adults for the KK era will remember that for his last few months he looked shattered, less spark in interviews, self doubt had started, and as we found out later he had offered to resign before he eventually did. 

 

I see these similarities with Howe today. That's why I think him leaving by mutual consent is best for all. He has the KK look just before he left. Hope I'm wrong but I don’t think he has the energy, fight or self confidence to oversee the massive rebuild that's required. All just IMO of course. 

 

I think that Mackem game was his nadir, if he was going to bow out, it was then. Thats when he offered to leave and its totally understandable to feel dejected, having bowed out of all the knock out competitions at that point and be flailing in the league to then lose against your local rivals for the second time in the season. But I think the level of support from above and in the stands rejuvenated him and a break this summer will help recharge his batteries. I get the comparisons and although I absolutely love KK, I do think Howe is built of stronger stuff, KK was quite mentally weak.

[nufc4eva]

5 hours ago, duo said:

We need to sort out our defending first- a quality keeper HAS to be the priority. In 22/23 we had one of the best defences in the league. Is it 27 points lost from winning positions? Imagine where we'd be if we'd held onto most of them? CL for sure.

I think our lack of goals and attacking competency amplifies our defensive issues though. We turn the ball over far too often and the way we attack leaves us prone to counter. Being utter fucking tragic taking the ball forward and creating moves impacts us later on games and suffer waves of attacks from opposition. Any team would concede if they were completely shit at attacking.

[Hovagod]

31 minutes ago, Mattoon said:

 

I think that Mackem game was his nadir, if he was going to bow out, it was then. Thats when he offered to leave 

Did he?

[Zero]

9 minutes ago, nufc4eva said:

I think our lack of goals and attacking competency amplifies our defensive issues though. We turn the ball over far too often and the way we attack leaves us prone to counter. Being utter fucking tragic taking the ball forward and creating moves impacts us later on games and suffer waves of attacks from opposition. Any team would concede if they were completely shit at attacking.

Yea taking the ball forward is the main problem - and tbh it’s Howe’s main weakness.

[Whitley mag]

11 minutes ago, Hovagod said:

Did he?

Nah it was after losing at home to Brentford.

[r0cafella]

2 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

Nah it was after losing at home to Brentford.

I wonder what changed mind, you had your notice in means your done. 

[Froggy]

6 hours ago, duo said:

We need to sort out our defending first- a quality keeper HAS to be the priority.

 

Onana available.

[Whitley mag]

5 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

I wonder what changed mind, you had your notice in means your done. 

According to Edwards he was talked out of it by Hopkinson and co. Since then he’s been rejuvenated by support from stands.

 

Losing at home to Brentford must have triggered something, but can’t imagine his confidence has been boosted in the following weeks. 
 

His interview on Sunday certainly wasn’t the most inspiring and reeked of a manager non plussed.

[gbandit]

15 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Onana available.