Eddie Howe

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I’m always a bit cautious about calling for adaptability or changing tactics drastically. The more important thing is to have a clear way of playing that everyone understands and every level of the club is on board with. There might be setbacks as we’re seeing now, but the vision and striving for it is what gives you clarity and consistency from top to bottom. 
 

Of course there has to be tweaks to deal with different opponents etc, but I’m not sure I want my manager to chuck his approach in the bin because we have injuries. He’s been developing his view on football for decades. 

[janpawel]

1 hour ago, Tiresias said:

We definitely need to be more comfortable holding possession and slowing the game down. 

This for me, I want Howe to be here for as long as possible, I hope this is his next stage of evolution from next season 

[Tiresias]

I agree with all and the idea we could switch out to a new way of playing with same players mid season is a fantasy, nor do i want us to as a whole, the high intensity press is fine but a few alternate players just to make us better at it, so we can lean that way a bit more when we need to give legs a rest. That is not to say we will be the best at posession, we are not going ot be the best high press and best ball holders until all players are £100m players if that could happen lol, just saying we could be better at it, but it will take time and it will take players leaving and players coming

[relámpago blanco]

1 hour ago, Jagten said:

Yes, but extremely difficult to do that with Joelinton and Longstaff in midfield. 

Joelinton is out for 6 weeks and actually for Bruno and Miley this is perfect for their game.  I'm not sure this would suit the team though.

 

We are designed to break quickly, press aggressively and when we turnover in their half be there ready to capitalise.  Our problem is fitness and lack of training due to the games.  We'll get into a rhythm and finish in the top 6 or 7.  |January is going to be tough and Im not sure brining a player in now is going to see fruit until late feb early march whilst they come to terms with our system.  Phillips probably can but I reckon he'll end up at West ham to replace rice.

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, Tiresias said:

We definitely need to be more comfortable holding possession and slowing the game down. 

We do but this we don’t have the personnel for atm.  
 

If we are going to run around without the ball we can take off Isak if he’s too tired to do it effectively imo. 

[The College Dropout]

I’d be happy with just plugging that midfield gap mind. 

[The College Dropout]

Was listening to Wilson’s podcast. He heavily implied he rushed himself back before he was fully fit and has now paid the cost.  
 

I think there’s been a culture of that at the club this season. He also spoke about him being out - Alex being overloaded then getting injured himself - so Wilson rushes back and the cycle repeats.  

[Nucasol]

12 hours ago, relámpago blanco said:

Phillips probably can but I reckon he'll end up at West ham to replace rice.

Don’t see it now that Alvarez is settling in well to their set up.

[ExiledGeordie]

23 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Was listening to Wilson’s podcast. He heavily implied he rushed himself back before he was fully fit and has now paid the cost.  
 

I think there’s been a culture of that at the club this season. He also spoke about him being out - Alex being overloaded then getting injured himself - so Wilson rushes back and the cycle repeats.  

While I do think we’ve been unfortunate with injuries I’m sure the medical team and management will probably look back at certain decisions and think “did we do the right thing”. I’d imagine the severity of the situation probably made them roll the dice or take a risk more than they would’ve liked.

[Turnbull2000]

Forum favourite Louise Taylor somewhat scathing of Howe on the Guardian website today

[PauloGeordio]

https://www.themag.co.uk/2024/01/light-at-end-of-the-tunnel-newcastle-united-now-ready-for-big-push/
 

[Holmesy]

Largely, i think our approach and identity is great and i love that we finally have a style of play that is recognisable and brilliant to watch (when we're at full strength). However, it's pretty obvious that when conditions aren't optimal, our identity/style of play can be pretty ineffective. That's the drawback with only approaching games in one way - if plan A doesn't work, we only have more of plan A, but maybe with a couple of players substituted.

I definitely don't want us to tear up the script but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that working on a secondary approach to games, for when conditions aren't optimal, would be a sensible thing for next season and beyond. If that doesn't happen, we find ourselves in a similar position again and we go on another losing run as a result, pressure should rightly mount on the management team. But learn from this, adapt and evolve, and we could turn a huge negative into something that strengthens us going forward.

 

Some folk on here have been saying we haven't been worked out. I think you underestimate the size of the role analysts play in PL football clubs. We are being picked apart in the same way game after game - that isn't coincidence. Every team pours over data to understand the finest details of where competitive advantage can be gained, including where goals/chances result from and where opposition teams are vulnerable. Spotting the grand canyon size hole in our midfield and recognising that we over commit in attack and have no pace to counter the counter will take them about 5 minutes, if that.

A new DM would help, but so would adjusting our game plan slightly to leave us less vulnerable. That isn't a 'rip up the script' change, it's a slight adjustment. And it's absolutely not asking too much for Eddie to make that change.

 

 

[Shearergol]

4 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Largely, i think our approach and identity is great and i love that we finally have a style of play that is recognisable and brilliant to watch (when we're at full strength). However, it's pretty obvious that when conditions aren't optimal, our identity/style of play can be pretty ineffective. That's the drawback with only approaching games in one way - if plan A doesn't work, we only have more of plan A, but maybe with a couple of players substituted.

I definitely don't want us to tear up the script but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that working on a secondary approach to games, for when conditions aren't optimal, would be a sensible thing for next season and beyond. If that doesn't happen, we find ourselves in a similar position again and we go on another losing run as a result, pressure should rightly mount on the management team. But learn from this, adapt and evolve, and we could turn a huge negative into something that strengthens us going forward.

 

Some folk on here have been saying we haven't been worked out. I think you underestimate the size of the role analysts play in PL football clubs. We are being picked apart in the same way game after game - that isn't coincidence. Every team pours over data to understand the finest details of where competitive advantage can be gained, including where goals/chances result from and where opposition teams are vulnerable. Spotting the grand canyon size hole in our midfield and recognising that we over commit in attack and have no pace to counter the counter will take them about 5 minutes, if that.

A new DM would help, but so would adjusting our game plan slightly to leave us less vulnerable. That isn't a 'rip up the script' change, it's a slight adjustment. And it's absolutely not asking too much for Eddie to make that change.

 

 

 

 I don't think we have the current personnel in midfield to change the game plan. DM is absolutely key for me.

[Holmesy]

Just now, Shearergol said:

 

 I don't think we have the current personnel in midfield to change the game plan. DM is absolutely key for me.

Longstaff has thrived under two managers who gave him a very specific role, coached him in detail and told him where he needs to be in certain situations. And he disappeared under Cabbage head, a known 'go and play' tactical moron.

If Eddie told Longstaff to sit, fill the hole and stay back on our set pieces, he would. In an ideal world we'd have a dedicated #6 but that's not looking likely so we might have to work with what we have.

[Optimistic Nut]

Longstaff's lack of pace, inability to wriggle away from tackles and shite diving when under pressure would give me kittens sitting deep.

[Holmesy]

2 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Longstaff's lack of pace, inability to wriggle away from tackles and shite diving when under pressure would give me kittens sitting deep.

Starting from the halfway line would give him a better chance of catching someone than treading water from the opposition box. As i said, we don't have a round peg for that round hole, but maybe Longstaff could be our oval peg for now? He can't finish for shit, so I doubt we'll miss him much in attacking situations.

 

 

[jackyboy]

Klopp said that for Liverpool if plan A doesn't work it means they have to work harder to get it right, there is no plan B

[The College Dropout]

5 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Longstaff's lack of pace, inability to wriggle away from tackles and shite diving when under pressure would give me kittens sitting deep.

Agreed. But he can still plug a gap.

 

There's got to be a tactical adjustment to stop us from conceding possession and space in dangerous areas for 45 minutes straight numerous times.

[Optimistic Nut]

5 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Starting from the halfway line would give him a better chance of catching someone than treading water from the opposition box. As i said, we don't have a round peg for that round hole, but maybe Longstaff could be our oval peg for now? He can't finish for shit, so I doubt we'll miss him much in attacking situations.

 

 

 

It's the late tackles as well. We'd give away plenty around the box.

[The College Dropout]

So let's keep doing exactly what we've been doing.

[Holmesy]

2 minutes ago, jackyboy said:

Klopp said that for Liverpool if plan A doesn't work it means they have to work harder to get it right, there is no plan B

Klopp has a deep squad full of top talent. Conditions are rarely non-optimal for Liverpool.

It also worked for Barcelona and it works for City etc. - both deep squads full of top talent.

Conditions are far less likely to be optimal for us, for at least a couple of years at least, so being pragmatic rather than stubborn makes more sense. When we have a squad full of world beaters, i'm all for 100% of plan A.

 

Burnley came up playing a certain style and they'll go down because of their slowness to adapt to the quality and rigours of the PL. The only way they'll stay up is if they adapt and find a different way to get results. We're not Burnley but we're also not Liverpool, we're somewhere between the two right now.  

[The College Dropout]

Klopp also presides over some really poor seasons. I've seen him try and switch things up - he's played 4-2-3-1 for example but nothing really works well. Eddie is a bit like him.

[Thumbheed]

5 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Klopp has a deep squad full of top talent. Conditions are rarely non-optimal for Liverpool.

It also worked for Barcelona and it works for City etc. - both deep squads full of top talent.

Conditions are far less likely to be optimal for us, for at least a couple of years at least, so being pragmatic rather than stubborn makes more sense. When we have a squad full of world beaters, i'm all for 100% of plan A.

 

Burnley came up playing a certain style and they'll go down because of their slowness to adapt to the quality and rigours of the PL. The only way they'll stay up is if they adapt and find a different way to get results. We're not Burnley but we're also not Liverpool, we're somewhere between the two right now.  

 

Klopp had similar injury struggles when he first implemented his style of play and stuck with it.

 

 

[El Hozzo]

8 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Klopp has a deep squad full of top talent. Conditions are rarely non-optimal for Liverpool.

It also worked for Barcelona and it works for City etc. - both deep squads full of top talent.

Conditions are far less likely to be optimal for us, for at least a couple of years at least, so being pragmatic rather than stubborn makes more sense. When we have a squad full of world beaters, i'm all for 100% of plan A.

 

Burnley came up playing a certain style and they'll go down because of their slowness to adapt to the quality and rigours of the PL. The only way they'll stay up is if they adapt and find a different way to get results. We're not Burnley but we're also not Liverpool, we're somewhere between the two right now.  

Burnpool ?

[Erikse]

38 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Largely, i think our approach and identity is great and i love that we finally have a style of play that is recognisable and brilliant to watch (when we're at full strength). However, it's pretty obvious that when conditions aren't optimal, our identity/style of play can be pretty ineffective. That's the drawback with only approaching games in one way - if plan A doesn't work, we only have more of plan A, but maybe with a couple of players substituted.

I definitely don't want us to tear up the script but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that working on a secondary approach to games, for when conditions aren't optimal, would be a sensible thing for next season and beyond. If that doesn't happen, we find ourselves in a similar position again and we go on another losing run as a result, pressure should rightly mount on the management team. But learn from this, adapt and evolve, and we could turn a huge negative into something that strengthens us going forward.

 

Some folk on here have been saying we haven't been worked out. I think you underestimate the size of the role analysts play in PL football clubs. We are being picked apart in the same way game after game - that isn't coincidence. Every team pours over data to understand the finest details of where competitive advantage can be gained, including where goals/chances result from and where opposition teams are vulnerable. Spotting the grand canyon size hole in our midfield and recognising that we over commit in attack and have no pace to counter the counter will take them about 5 minutes, if that.

A new DM would help, but so would adjusting our game plan slightly to leave us less vulnerable. That isn't a 'rip up the script' change, it's a slight adjustment. And it's absolutely not asking too much for Eddie to make that change.

 

 

 

Not really a surprising heat map or anything, but this is the heatmap of Man City against us:

 

 

It's quite clear to see where they were operating. I checked their heatmaps in other games, and they usually don't look like this. Could also be partly because we were 2-1 up and defending for most of the 2nd half however, so I'm not sure how much we can read from this.

 

 

Edited January 15 by Erikse