Eddie Howe

[dcmk]

1 minute ago, Dokko said:

 

I support him, bar a Sunderland loss, i'll take top ten this season and go again next season. Is that not a low enough bar like for our best ever manager in 20 years?

Saying he's failing and that you're unable to recognise or care for some of the extenuating circumstances surrounding the team and being extremely vocal about it, doesn't suggest you support him like.

 

 

[Kid Icarus]

Wanting him to stay, but if we lose to Sunderland he should go isn't grey is it.

[Dokko]

1 minute ago, dcmk said:

Saying he's failing and that you're unable to recognise or care for some of the extenuating circumstances surrounding the team and being extremely vocal about it, doesn't suggest you support him like.

 

 

 

I'm not allowed to say he's failing when he is? That's pretty much your argument, isn't it? Don't say a bad word. It won't be tolerated. That's fine, but that's blind support, which if that's who you are then I'm happy you are happy. You think i'm critical of him? I'm critical of everything in life, I wish I was different, save me a lot of inner turmoil. 

[Andy]

9 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Today it felt like the increasingly low-energy football that we're playing at the moment came home to roost, if you pardon the pun.

 

I thought we'd be able to make our home form stick despite our poor away form, but that looked like one of our away matches today and we didn't have the football to lift the crowd to push them through.

 

I think it's kind of got the point where blaming everything on injuries and fatigue is seen as too simplistic and making excuses, but it really is such a huge factor and has had a massive impact now that it's properly caught up with us and our style of play.

 

 

 

 

We've played without intensity almost all season tbf. I posted about it below after the Brighton game which was back in September. 

 

Injuries and fatigue are an issue but they're not the only reason for the lack of intensity and change of style. It's either instructional or there's a bit of a motivational issue IMO, as we've managed to play that way in certain big home games (Man Utd, PSG, Milan first half) but otherwise we've lacked that identity that we had last season. 

 

This is obviously a glaring issue as we don't have the technical or tactical nouse to make up for it. 

 

 

 

[Dokko]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

Wanting him to stay, but if we lose to Sunderland he should go isn't grey is it.

 

Well it is, it's unacceptable to be beaten by them. He can't complain if he walks on the back of a defeat. It would be the worst result in the clubs history when talking about derbies. You may be happy carrying that forever, I'm fucking not.

[Wullie]

6 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

Exactly. Don't understand this notion that the fatigue excuse is wearing thin. It becomes more relevant with every game ffs.  The odd returning player doesn't mean that suddenly Miggy, Gordon, Bruno, Schar etc are suddenly not absolutely shagged.

 

We are losing every 50:50 and every second ball. Couldn't be more obvious how little they have in the tank.

[madras]

1 minute ago, Dokko said:

 

I'm not saying he should listen to me. Just that my opinions aren't that far fetched. On here though, it's either black or white, you aren't allowed grey. Its weird AF, always been the same. 

So given we've had no room to maneuver squad wise since early October and had to play players when unfit and for longer than we'd want in game after game first XI needed type games...... what would you suggest ?

[500bhp]

We have the richest owners of any football club in the world. (Acknowledging that FFP means we cannot spend the money) The Saudis do not do second place.

 

I hope he can turn this around in the second half of the season once we get back into the weekend to weekend games and injured players come back. But football is not fair and we do not know how our SA ownership will react. Will be an interesting next few months. 

[Kid Icarus]

Just now, Andy said:

 

We've played without intensity almost all season tbf. I posted about it below after the Brighton game which was back in September. 

 

Injuries and fatigue are an issue but they're not the only reason for the lack of intensity and change of style. It's either instructional or there's a bit of a motivational issue IMO, as we've managed to play that way in certain big home games (Man Utd, PSG, Milan first half) but otherwise we've lacked that identity that we had last season. 

 

This is obviously a glaring issue as we don't have the technical or tactical nouse to make up for it. 

 

 

 

Tbf, I'll always maintain that Brighton were brilliant in that match. We pressed hard plenty and their play to beat the press was outstanding I thought.

 

Take the point though, we haven't always pressed this season. 

[Dokko]

2 minutes ago, madras said:

So given we've had no room to maneuver squad wise since early October and had to play players when unfit and for longer than we'd want in game after game first XI needed type games...... what would you suggest ?

 

I've been through it, you can go back and check.

[dcmk]

Just now, Dokko said:

 

I'm not allowed to say he's failing when he is? That's pretty much your argument, isn't it? Don't say a bad word. It won't be tolerated. That's fine, but that's blind support, which if that's who you are then I'm happy you are happy. You think i'm critical of him? I'm critical of everything in life, I wish I was different, save me a lot of inner turmoil. 

Not at all. Of course can have your opinions.

 

I'm saying all your posts today reads like you have had enough and want him out. Which I find unfair.  You say you support him but it doesn't read like that at all, in my opinion.

 

I'm only saying how about being more patient?  And let him train the team properly for a few weeks before saying he's 'failed', which is an extreme take, no?

[Dokko]

You can love your lass more than life itself, but if she cheats on you then its over. That's my position on the Sunderland game. I really hope on life itself she doesn't cheat. 

[madras]

2 minutes ago, Dokko said:

 

I've been through it, you can go back and check.

Link me.

[Dokko]

Just now, dcmk said:

Not at all. Of course can have your opinions.

 

I'm saying all your posts today reads like you have had enough and want him out. Which I find unfair.  You say you support him but it doesn't read like that at all, in my opinion.

 

I'm only saying how about being more patient?  And let him train the team properly for a few weeks before saying he's 'failed', which is an extreme take, no?

 

I shouldn't have said he's failed, I'm sorry. That's emotion talking. He's not winning this though right now, and throwing the players under the bus is failing talk. Maybe that has clouded my judgement a bit (plus beers) 

 

He's got my support, plus criticism at things I feel are wrong. Sunderland game is too much though. I wish it never came about.

 

 

[Kid Icarus]

2 minutes ago, Dokko said:

 

Well it is, it's unacceptable to be beaten by them. He can't complain if he walks on the back of a defeat. It would be the worst result in the clubs history when talking about derbies. You may be happy carrying that forever, I'm fucking not.

It's not that I'd be happy carrying whatever, it's that I just fully reject your premise. No idea how thinking a manager of 2 years who's been incredibly successful should walk on the back of a defeat to Sunderland is grey and not clearly black and white, but whatever, that's your opinion and no one is saying you can't have it, I just think  the opinion itself is a stupid reactionary one.

[Holmesy]

6 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Today it felt like the increasingly low-energy football that we're playing at the moment came home to roost, if you pardon the pun.

 

I thought we'd be able to make our home form stick despite our poor away form, but that looked like one of our away matches today and we didn't have the football to lift the crowd to push them through.

 

I think it's kind of got the point where blaming everything on injuries and fatigue is seen as too simplistic and making excuses, but it really is such a huge factor and has had a massive impact now that it's properly caught up with us and our style of play.

 

 

 

Would you have confidence in Rafa to get results even with a tired, depleted squad? I 100% would. 
 

He is probably the reason why the shit we’re serving up right now frustrates me as much as it does. Any supposed top class manager should be able to find a way to get results even if conditions are far from optimal. So far Eddie has got great results when everything was in his favour but his tactical weaknesses have been fully exposed when we have injuries and the players are tired (which they were always going to be this season). Chuck the team out, try to execute our high intensity plan a, and when it doesn’t work, do more of plan a. For me, the tactical nativity and limitation is a serious worry and has eroded a lot of my confidence in him.

Even when we get players back and results start to improve, I doubt I’ll ever think of him as a top manager again.

 

I hope he makes me eat my words though.

[gbandit]

[Andy]

6 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Tbf, I'll always maintain that Brighton were brilliant in that match. We pressed hard plenty and their play to beat the press was outstanding I thought.

 

Take the point though, we haven't always pressed this season. 

 

Brighton were good because we played into their hands imo. They've barely managed to replicate that performance this season, especially against other top 10 sides at home. 

[Dokko]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

It's not that I'd be happy carrying whatever, it's that I just fully reject your premise. No idea how thinking a manager of 2 years who's been incredibly successful should walk on the back of a defeat to Sunderland is grey and not clearly black and white, but whatever, that's your opinion and no one is saying you can't have it, I just think  the opinion itself is a stupid reactionary one.

 

I wish I didn't feel like that. Be a lot easier. But fucking hell, I just cannot take another defeat, not when I'm starting to care again. 

 

If he lost it, does he get a pass for you, or does he lose his reserve, need to win you back round? 

[Deuce]

26 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

I think it's kind of got the point where blaming everything on injuries and fatigue is seen as too simplistic and making excuses, but it really is such a huge factor and has had a massive impact now that it's properly caught up with us and our style of play.

100% this

[madras]

1 minute ago, Andy said:

 

Brighton were good because we played into their hands imo. They've barely managed to replicate that performance this season, especially against other top 10 sides at home. 

Brighton done us similarly last season without scoring.

 

Villa is similar, they tore us at their place, either side of us ripping them.

[Holmesy]

2 minutes ago, gbandit said:

Constructive!

[Kid Icarus]

Just now, Holmesy said:

Would you have confidence in Rafa to get results even with a tired, depleted squad? I 100% would. 
 

He is probably the reason why the shit we’re serving up right now frustrates me as much as it does. Any supposed top class manager should be able to find a way to get results even if conditions are far from optimal. So far Eddie has got great results when everything was in his favour but his tactical weaknesses have been fully exposed when we have injuries and the players are tired (which they were always going to be this season). Chuck the team out, try to execute our high intensity plan a, and when it doesn’t work, do more of plan a. For me, the tactical nativity and limitation is a serious worry and has eroded a lot of my confidence in him.

Even when we get players back and results start to improve, I doubt I’ll ever think of him as a top manager again.

 

I hope he makes me eat my words though.

I wouldn't trust Rafa to do that tbh. I spent a lot more time on here defending Rafa because of the mitigating circumstances he was in with player availability than I ever have Howe. And Howe has had it way worse but done much better imo.

 

Rafa could get us keeping a good defensive shape and galvanised a kind of triumph over adversity style, but we still lost plenty and the football was often poor.

[Sean]

It's been a rough season so far, and as others have said it looks likely to get a whole lot worse before it can get better.

 

Rightly or wrongly, there will always be increasing pressure in such a situation - my opinion is it's the players who get managers the sack most of the time. These players need to get some results, and fast, if they want to ensure Eddie's future here is secured, rather than the pressure continuing to grow.

[Kid Icarus]

3 minutes ago, Dokko said:

 

I wish I didn't feel like that. Be a lot easier. But fucking hell, I just cannot take another defeat, not when I'm starting to care again. 

 

If he lost it, does he get a pass for you, or does he lose his reserve, need to win you back round? 

I'll hate it if they beat us, but if he was sacked on the back of that I'd view it as a bigger win for them than in the match. I'd be absolutely gutted and totally embarrassed of the club to throw away everything because of a loss to fucking Sunderland.