Sven Botman

[Dr Jinx]

Just now, Vinny Green Balls said:

See What Shadow Puppets has said about six times in this thread 

Yeah I’ve read it. He got multiple pieces of advice and the club gave him the option to do either.

 

He hasn’t mentioned anything that I’ve brought up in that post.

 

I don’t think Eddie Howe is doing right by this squad, short term fixes for long term problems.

 

No other team has to physically work as hard as us to win games.

[Vinny Green Balls]

Yes he has. Considering what you said about Botman, it absolutely directly addressed that. 

[80]

It's a pity that I'm only shrugging at this news. Hope he's doing alright in himself.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It’s tempting to think there’s something we could have done to prevent all of these injuries but the truth is we haven’t a clue. 

[Dr Jinx]

Just now, Vinny Green Balls said:

Yes he has. Considering what you said about Botman, it absolutely directly addressed that. 

I said he was way off it since his return. Is that also incorrect?

 

You haven’t answered any of my questions.

 

So you think the manager hasn’t left injured players on the pitch?

 

You think he hasn’t ran them into the ground leaving them open to serious injury?

 

And you think he hasn’t rushed players back before they were ready?

[TheInfiniteOdyssey]

Really unhappy about this has been handled from the start quite frankly. Is anything even going to get better, seems like we just run players into the ground.

 

 

[Erikse]

6 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

It’s tempting to think there’s something we could have done to prevent all of these injuries but the truth is we haven’t a clue. 

 

"Bad luck" is a term that's allways used. Do we know how much of it which comes down to bad luck? The injuries before christmas didn't raise that much suspicion, but nearly every injury after christmas has been suspicious to the point where I can't confidently call it bad luck. "Make your own luck" is a thing.

 

 

Edited March 21 by Erikse

[Vinny Green Balls]

2 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

I said he was way off it since his return. Is that also incorrect?

 

You haven’t answered any of my questions.

 

So you think the manager hasn’t left injured players on the pitch?

 

You think he hasn’t ran them into the ground leaving them open to serious injury?

 

And you think he hasn’t rushed players back before they were ready?

I’ve already answered these that it can be a bit of both. Not every injury may be attributed to the staff, but some could possibly be.

 

but posters like you are only comfortable with either or’s, and claim others are sitting in the fence.

[Upthemags]

Just now, AyeDubbleYoo said:

It’s tempting to think there’s something we could have done to prevent all of these injuries but the truth is we haven’t a clue. 

It's not tempting - it's just natural operational analysis. NUFC are a business, and the players are their assets. The assets have not been adequately protected when our star CB, the cornerstone of our defence for the next 5 years, has been running around on a torn ACL for the past half year.

 

The fact that I (we all, really) could tell many months ago that Sven was nursing something seriously impacting his play says it all. Unfortunately, our negligence might have cost the lad his career and livelihood. It would be cowardly not to protect our players better by overhauling the medical team at this point. And I have a feeling PIF will agree on that score.

[mighty__mag]

Sick of Eddie playing the injury card. There's nowt up with him.

[madras]

15 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

I said he was way off it since his return. Is that also incorrect?

 

You haven’t answered any of my questions.

 

So you think the manager hasn’t left injured players on the pitch?

 

You think he hasn’t ran them into the ground leaving them open to serious injury?

 

And you think he hasn’t rushed players back before they were ready?

1. Yes he has, all managers do.

2 All managers do when their squads get thin.

3 See 2.

 

I wonder why he eased Willock back in such a way and wasn't something said about still easing Tino back after his ACL ?

[timeEd32]

47 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

Depends on each individual, the position they play, their recovery and rehab, the physio. Too many variables, I think. 
 

It used to be a much more serious and intrusive procedure. The healing time was a lot longer and players would struggle to come back anywhere near the same. Whilst this is far from ideal. I don’t think it is quite so bad as it once was with keyhole surgery and modern day medical science. I bet you can go through plenty of examples of players that have had it and got back to something like their best. I’m just too lazy to do the research  VVD springs to mind. Although he did take some time to regain his imperious form. 
 

He’ll have close to the best rehab facilities money can buy and he’s young. I think and hope he’ll come back just fine. 
 

The only crumb of comfort I can take from this. Is that something was clearly still limiting him and it is good that it’s getting sorted. The drop off in quality was a concern. But always felt like there was more to it than him becoming a bad player overnight. 

 

I've posted before about research done on NFL players returning from ACL injuries. The gist is it's common for players to return to play within 9-12 months, but not "return to perform" another 6+ months beyond that. There's all sorts of caveats on the exact type of injury, the person, etc. but it's entirely possible we don't get the full Sven back until the beginning of the 2025/26 season.

[huss9]

listen to the words... the answer is in there.

 

 

[danny]

I fucking hate this season, more than anyother

[The Prophet]

1 hour ago, Dr Jinx said:

It’s not quite the career ending/altering injury it once was but it’s still one of the more significant ones a footballer can get. I really feel for the lad as he’s a top player.

 

A couple of weeks back it was obvious that Botman was miles off it… now at that point as a manager who should be able to notice these things in fucking training.. what do you do?.. leave him in and roll the dice or give him extra time to rehab and build back to the point he was beforehand, or as close to.

 

Eddie Howe has been running this squad into the ground over the course of 2 years, nearly every single one of them are walking on ice in relation to picking up serious injury. Fatigue is a massive contributing factor.

 

There's also been several instances of players being obviously crocked and being left on the pitch for 10/15 mins before being subbed. He’s done this repeatedly.

 

If any potential new signings or existing players that the club should be doing everything to keep have any level of intelligence, they’ll be thinking “playing for this guy is going to shorten my career”.

 

 

Got to think a second manager would have provided an extra set of eyes and allowed Howe to see the wood from the trees.

[Yorkie]

It's stupid to level anything at Howe, like. His team selections are clearly evidence-based. If the evidence is unreliable or incorrect, that's not his fault. 

 

It's a pity that - for all the good Howe's done - it isn't enough to earn the assumption (from some) that he won't play someone if there's a demonstrable risk that it'll cause a career-jeopardising injury. 

 

Re the injury, I think it's possible that there's been an oversight somewhere, but it's equally possible that it's genuinely just a peculiar case and the lad has been unfortunate. That thing about some specialists thinking he'd ruptured it and some thinking he hadn't just seems absolutely wild to me. I find it incredible that such a thing can be misdiagnosed, which supports the view that it's a really weird case. 

 

There is also the less belligerent reason, and it's an entirely fresh injury. 

[Dr Jinx]

25 minutes ago, madras said:

1. Yes he has, all managers do.

2 All managers do when their squads get thin.

3 See 2.

 

I wonder why he eased Willock back in such a way and wasn't something said about still easing Tino back after his ACL ?

Don’t think he eased Tino in due to injury concerns, he does that with all players at the start.

 

Only Isak got hoyed in the first game.

 

I’ve been negative toward him this season and I genuinely think he’s hit his ceiling with us.. last season his intense style of play ran the players into the ground too to a point where our form dipped.

 

We got away for some warm weather training which effectively saved the season for us.

 

This season we’ve had none of that.. we had a more hectic pre season, and despite a bright start we’ve been found out more often than not.

 

We still need to work much harder than any other team to get something from games.. that’s all down to his ethos and tactical setup.

 

He's not willing to change, or maybe he’s not capable of it. Either way we have a squad of players running on fumes and picking up serious injuries.

 

I don’t get how he’s so immune to criticism.

[madras]

4 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

Don’t think he eased Tino in due to injury concerns, he does that with all players at the start.

 

Only Isak got hoyed in the first game.

 

I’ve been negative toward him this season and I genuinely think he’s hit his ceiling with us.. last season his intense style of play ran the players into the ground too to a point where our form dipped.

 

We got away for some warm weather training which effectively saved the season for us.

 

This season we’ve had none of that.. we had a more hectic pre season, and despite a bright start we’ve been found out more often than not.

 

We still need to work much harder than any other team to get something from games.. that’s all down to his ethos and tactical setup.

 

He's not willing to change, or maybe he’s not capable of it. Either way we have a squad of players running on fumes and picking up serious injuries.

 

I don’t get how he’s so immune to criticism.

Had this season played out the way it had without 2 dislocations, 2 knacked backs, a turf toe and betting suspension to get through the toughest Champs league group with what we already knew was a squad that would be stretched more would have been said. As it is I don't think matt managers with this size squad would have made vastly different decisions. Also last season he said he wanted to go more possession based, I think that's why we bought Tonali.

 

Re Tino he said "

"I actually think [this season] has been the ideal introduction to his return from injury because not only did he have a serious knee injury, but he had a hamstring injury just after that which kept him out," Howe said. "We needed to nurse him, manage him and look after him.

"How this season's gone has probably been the ideal introduction back and I still think there's more to come. I don't think we've seen the very best of him yet.

"I really do believe in his potential and there's a very exciting future ahead of him hopefully."

[elbee909]

20 minutes ago, danny said:

I fucking hate this season, more than anyother

 

Any other? Come on.

[SUPERTOON]

24 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

It's stupid to level anything at Howe, like. His team selections are clearly evidence-based. If the evidence is unreliable or incorrect, that's not his fault. 

 

It's a pity that - for all the good Howe's done - it isn't enough to earn the assumption (from some) that he won't play someone if there's a demonstrable risk that it'll cause a career-jeopardising injury. 

 

Re the injury, I think it's possible that there's been an oversight somewhere, but it's equally possible that it's genuinely just a peculiar case and the lad has been unfortunate. That thing about some specialists thinking he'd ruptured it and some thinking he hadn't just seems absolutely wild to me. I find it incredible that such a thing can be misdiagnosed, which supports the view that it's a really weird case. 

 

There is also the less belligerent reason, and it's an entirely fresh injury. 

He has admitted that he is playing Longstaff who is carrying an injury. Don’t think it’s mad to suggest he’s doing it with other players either. I don’t think anyone is blameless in this injury crisis this season.

[duo]

What a mess up - clubs medical team have totally messed this up.  He never looked fit when he returned and clearly wasn't.

 

 

Edited March 23 by duo

[madras]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

He has admitted that he is playing Longstaff who is carrying an injury. Don’t think it’s mad to suggest he’s doing it with other players either. I don’t think anyone is blameless in this injury crisis this season.

Every manager plays players through injury. Every player plays with knocks.

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, madras said:

Every manager plays players through injury. Every player plays with knocks.

They do, and Howe has admitted it, so the suggestion he doesn’t have any blame is wrong imo. 

[madras]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

They do, and Howe has admitted it, so the suggestion he doesn’t have any blame is wrong imo. 

So if every manager does they all should be blamed ?

[Myleftboot]

Is it Eddies same medical team from Bournemouth? In his final season at Bournemouth when they were relegated he had 11 injured players which was apparently one of the reasons they went down.