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Sven Botman: targeting January return (Howe)


The Prophet

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It already seems we're going to, as we're not paying what they want. Regardless if he wants to leave himself it seems... unfortunate. Maybe in the summer, however that may be way too late with the rate we going - dumpin' down.

 

 

Edited by thorin

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9 hours ago, thorin said:

It already seems we're going to, as we're not paying what they want. Regardless if he wants to leave himself it seems... unfortunate. Maybe in the summer, however that may be way too late with the rate we going - dumpin' down.

 

 

 

I'm not convinced Botman is as good as they're making out. 

 

He's slow and looks prone to a bout of diving in. You put him in a high line and before you know it he's the Dutch Michael Keane. If they believe they can get 40m Euros come the summer then they've made the right decision for the club, but no way is anyone paying above that. But the second we talk about 70m bids you're pitching him as the same level as Ruben Dias. I'm just not seeing it. 

 

Ibrahim Konate went for about 40m Euros and he had a far better pedigree than this lad. If he'd shown any kind of consistency when playing for the Dutch U21s I might be ok with it, but too many red flags for me.

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Every single one of them have negative points, you take VVD out of Liverpool and stick him in Man Utd defence and he’ll look half the player all of a sudden.

 

It’s about playing style, how they compliment those around them etc.

 

Bringing in Botman and Carlos is a massive risk because nobody has any idea how they will play together, communicate etc. That goes for whoever we bring in.

 

What we know though is what we currently have we cannot continue with which is why a gamble is perfectly fine in this instance.

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4 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

Every single one of them have negative points, you take VVD out of Liverpool and stick him in Man Utd defence and he’ll look half the player all of a sudden.

 

It’s about playing style, how they compliment those around them etc.

 

Bringing in Botman and Carlos is a massive risk because nobody has any idea how they will play together, communicate etc. That goes for whoever we bring in.

 

What we know though is what we currently have we cannot continue with which is why a gamble is perfectly fine in this instance.

I think a genuine world class player like VVD at Man Utd wouldn’t look half the player, he’d still perform and would elevate others to a higher level because he’s that good, but ultimately unless there are more like him in the team with his talent, mentality and desire to perform consistently, he would start to make errors and not look so good, that wouldn’t be on him though IMO. 

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7 minutes ago, HTT II said:

I think a genuine world class player like VVD at Man Utd wouldn’t look half the player, he’d still perform and would elevate others to a higher level because he’s that good, but ultimately unless there are more like him in the team with his talent, mentality and desire to perform consistently, he would start to make errors and not look so good, that wouldn’t be on him though IMO. 


Yeah, I think VVD would look amazing in any team in the world. Certainly not much of a drop off. He is outrageous at one on one defending, a beast in the air, calm

under pressure and can ping passes about for fun. 
 

It’s probably recency bias and I think I pay more attention to other teams than I did when I was young. As I was always massively biased towards NUFC and often pissed half-watching in the pub. But I think he is the best centre back I’ve seen in the PL. I know Terry and Rio will win more and have the longevity, Vidic was a more out and out defender etc. But I just love watching VVD play. 
 

Sorry to hijack the thread!

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7 minutes ago, HTT II said:

I think a genuine world class player like VVD at Man Utd wouldn’t look half the player, he’d still perform and would elevate others to a higher level because he’s that good, but ultimately unless there are more like him in the team with his talent, mentality and desire to perform consistently, he would start to make errors and not look so good, that wouldn’t be on him though IMO. 


I agree but there’s few teams out there that have talent that can compare to someone like that, he’s going to be making mistakes at a whole bunch of clubs and essentially, well hypothetically, if he’s making regular errors, he’s not the same player all of a sudden, he’s not invincible, he gets slagged off by the pundits and the confidence drops.

 

We can see that with Harry Maguire, who is a beast of a player. He’s let mistakes into his game because he’s playing in a crap underperforming team and over a 2 year period, his stock has dropped significantly because of this.

 

Move him to City or Chelsea and he’s a different player imho.

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5 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:


Yeah, I think VVD would look amazing in any team in the world. Certainly not much of a drop off. He is outrageous at one on one defending, a beast in the air, calm

under pressure and can ping passes about for fun. 
 

It’s probably recency bias and I think I pay more attention to other teams than I did when I was young. As I was always massively biased towards NUFC and often pissed half-watching in the pub. But I think he is the best centre back I’ve seen in the PL. I know Terry and Rio will win more and have the longevity, Vidic was a more out and out defender etc. But I just love watching VVD play. 
 

Sorry to hijack the thread!


Rio is probably the closest in terms of style to a VVD but I’d rather have a Terry or a Vidic.

 

Or actually going back a bit further, none were as good as Jaap Stam or Tony Adams

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2 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:


I agree but there’s few teams out there that have talent that can compare to someone like that, he’s going to be making mistakes at a whole bunch of clubs and essentially, well hypothetically, if he’s making regular errors, he’s not the same player all of a sudden, he’s not invincible, he gets slagged off by the pundits and the confidence drops.

 

We can see that with Harry Maguire, who is a beast of a player. He’s let mistakes into his game because he’s playing in a crap underperforming team and over a 2 year period, his stock has dropped significantly because of this.

 

Move him to City or Chelsea and he’s a different player imho.

Harry Maguire would still be the same player he is and always has been in any team, any less mistakes or dodgy moments would be because others would mask his own weaknesses, not himself. That wouldn’t last long though as he would revert to type or his level/standard. He’s reached his peak which on his day is good, but he is not and never will be a consistently top performing CB like VVD. The two can not be compared in any situation or team or set up. I get your point that some players will perform better in a better team and some good players will not in a shit team, it’s mostly about balance. But using VVD as an example doesn’t stack up for me.

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Just now, Dr Jinx said:


Rio is probably the closest in terms of style to a VVD but I’d rather have a Terry or a Vidic.

 

Or actually going back a bit further, none were as good as Jaap Stam or Tony Adams

Carvalho for me over Terry any day of the week and Rio had it all, but needed another top-class CB alongside him as he had brain fog moments in him. I’d say Woodgate is quite similar to VVD. He transformed our defence and anyone who played next to him when he signed. 

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5 minutes ago, HTT II said:

Carvalho for me over Terry any day of the week and Rio had it all, but needed another top-class CB alongside him as he had brain fog moments in him. I’d say Woodgate is quite similar to VVD. He transformed our defence and anyone who played next to him when he signed. 


Good shout on Carvalho, superb player.

 

Ah if Woodgate wasn’t made of glass.. what could have been. Selling him at the time seemed like such a step backwards but he wouldn’t have played all that much. We just never replaced him

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1 hour ago, HTT II said:

Carvalho for me over Terry any day of the week and Rio had it all, but needed another top-class CB alongside him as he had brain fog moments in him. I’d say Woodgate is quite similar to VVD. He transformed our defence and anyone who played next to him when he signed. 

 

 

Superb player, rapid, strong, read the game well and the absolute master of the dark arts.

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9 hours ago, Chicane said:

"You'll regret this day friend"

 

- Not Thiago

Ha, as I said, if their end goal is 40m they should be fine barring some outrageous fall from grace between now and June. 

 

I think what we're seeing it with almost every deal we're trying to do is clubs sensing a chance to put a tax on things. If this was the summer you might see the same, but less pronounced. Sure, we can pay the 70m twice over and not blink, but thankfully we have a group that don't want tot get mugged off.

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