Sven Botman: targeting January return (Howe)

[RodneyCisse]

5 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Has to be given the 27 shirt?

Just so our very own Cindy Crawfords shirt is a bust?

[Keegans Export]

#4 surely?

[Guest]

Keep 4 for when we get our quality midfielder in. 

[The Prophet]

Circa £32 million including add-ons according to big Fab. That's less than what we had knocked back in January isn't it?

[Nucasol]

Just now, The Prophet said:

Circa £32 million including add-ons according to big Fab. That's less than what we had knocked back in January isn't it?

Expected with the January window premium.

[Armchair Pundit]

I know we need to coax these bigger players to the team by any means possible as things currently stand and I'll be grateful of the improvement they bring. But the one thing that worries me (and it may be after getting our fingers burnt with Owen years ago), is are they going to be fully invested into the project and buy into the team? Really hope so because I like the look of Botman.

[The Prophet]

1 minute ago, Armchair Pundit said:

I know we need to coax these bigger players to the team by any means possible as things currently stand and I'll be grateful of the improvement they bring. But the one thing that worries me (and it may be after getting our fingers burnt with Owen years ago), is are they going to be fully invested into the project and buy into the team? Really hope so because I like the look of Botman.

 

Is there anything to suggest that he wouldn't be fully invested in the project? We can't expect everyone to buy into it as much as Bruno, but I'm sure he'll still give his all.

[Yorkie]

Obviously we'll have a better idea in 12 months' time but I feel so certain that we're only signing players that have the correct mentality. The evidence being our recruitment so far.

 

That said, it's still one reason why I feel it's important to keep at least a couple of the 'lads' around, in order to ground any new arrivals. Since 2017 there's been terrific camaraderie and clear standards in the dressing room, so I'm not disappointed at all with the likes of Lascelles and Dummett sticking around to retain those elements as we transition into something sexier. 

[Armchair Pundit]

9 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Is there anything to suggest that he wouldn't be fully invested in the project? We can't expect everyone to buy into it as much as Bruno, but I'm sure he'll still give his all.

 

Well that's fair I guess, though I think he clearly wanted to go to Milan over us. The question is then over his professionalism and ability to keep an open mind on the project he's coming into.

[M1tche]

I dont hold wanting to go to Milan over us against him at all, It's a logically instant choice really. Bigger club, league champs, champions league football, Maldini, theres so mant factors that make the more appealing right now. It's not like he sadi he didnt want to join us, it's just Milan was his 1st choice, most players we sign atm will likely have a dream club to join that isnt us.

[The Prophet]

His preference was almost certainly exaggerated by the Italian media. Even so a preference is just that, he didn't seem to hesitate once we'd agreed a fee with Lille, though I'm sure he'll have been briefed Milan wouldn't be matching that.

 

Slow Jokes aside. While he reads the game really well, he does lack recovery pace. For context, a lot of quality centre backs do, but they often play alongside a better athlete or rapid full backs. Regardless of who partners him the whole defence lacks speed. I assume that was a factor behind buying Pope, who is a decent sweeper. 

 

That small grumble aside this lad could be our Kompany. The likes of him and Bruno will gives us real quality down the spine of the team and a core of players that we can build around.

 

[Chris_R]

From the videos I've seen of Botman, what he lacks is acceleration, not pace. Once he gets moving he's fast, it just seems he takes a bit longer to get going. Mainly because he's a bit of a unit.

 

Obviously low acceleration is still not great, but he does have good pace.

[Rich]

I know I fell out of touch with football for a couple of years, but do centre-backs need to be “fast” these days? Is it still not just seen as a massive asset when they are, i.e. Campbell and Ferdinand?

[The Prophet]

4 minutes ago, Rich said:

I know I fell out of touch with football for a couple of years, but do centre-backs need to be “fast” these days? Is it still not just seen as a massive asset when they are, i.e. Campbell and Ferdinand?

 

Not really. VvD and Dias aren't the the fastest, but they read the game really well. I do think it helps to have recovery speed somewhere in the back line though.

[Happinesstan]

15 minutes ago, Chris_R said:

From the videos I've seen of Botman, what he lacks is acceleration, not pace. Once he gets moving he's fast, it just seems he takes a bit longer to get going. Mainly because he's a bit of a unit.

 

Obviously low acceleration is still not great, but he does have good pace.

Attackers need to get around him in order to accelerate away from him.

[Hanshithispantz]

It's a good point like @Rich

 

Even when fully fit Matip is preferred over Gomez, where as to a thick cunt like myself pairing VVD with a quicker CB makes sense - Klopp doesn't seem to think it's a massive issue.

 

Allison is way ahead (alongside Pope) in his contributions outside the box as the graphs that have been out up on here show - so it's possible Howe is looking to replicate something similar.

 

EDIT: They're also both right footed, so although CBs playing on their natural side seems smart it's obviously not a deal breaker either.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Hanshithispantz

[duo]

53 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Not really. VvD and Dias aren't the the fastest, but they read the game really well. I do think it helps to have recovery speed somewhere in the back line though.

Agreed - need good positional awareness which negates the need for the being super quick.  Something VvD has.

[NEEJ]

Dunno if it's already been posted, but this interview he gave to The Athletic a while back is worth a read. Think there's a video with Ormstein too:

https://theathletic.com/2589236/2021/05/16/sven-botman-exclusive-europes-rising-defensive-star-on-his-premier-league-dream-toppling-psg-and-a-body-like-van-dijk?source=user-shared-article

 

He seems pretty honest about his deficiencies and what he needs to work on.

[xLiaaamx]

Italian press now trying to go after him for not pushing hard enough for Milan. After months of claiming he didn't want to come here. Makes our Journalism look alright. 

[TRon]

2 hours ago, Hanshithispantz said:

It's a good point like @Rich

 

Even when fully fit Matip is preferred over Gomez, where as to a thick cunt like myself pairing VVD with a quicker CB makes sense - Klopp doesn't seem to think it's a massive issue.

 

Allison is way ahead (alongside Pope) in his contributions outside the box as the graphs that have been out up on here show - so it's possible Howe is looking to replicate something similar.

 

EDIT: They're also both right footed, so although CBs playing on their natural side seems smart it's obviously not a deal breaker either.

 

 

 

 

Klopp's teams do have explosive pace in key areas though, such as wide and up front. I guess it's just how you put it together. I recall Nobby Solano wasn't the quickest, but he was reinvented as a full back because he could pick out a pass to one of the lightning trio of Bellamy, Dyer and Robert during SBR's time. Actually I think it might have been  Roeder who first played him as a full back, ironically he wasn't blessed with much pace either as a CB, but he read the game masterfully.

[Nine]

25 minutes ago, TRon said:

Actually I think it might have been  Roeder who first played him as a full back, ironically he wasn't blessed with much pace either as a CB, but he read the game masterfully.

I think it was mainly down to our horrific injury record during that time that Nobby played RB as a needs must situation at first.

 

https://www.nufc.com/html/2006-07html/2007-03-18charlton-a.html The state of that team man, Duff at LB to

 

Edit: Against Pardews Charlton as well 

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Nine

[Dr.Spaceman]

The Chinese captain with a goal there.

[TRon]

30 minutes ago, Nine said:

I think it was mainly down to our horrific injury record during that time that Nobby played RB as a needs must situation at first.

 

https://www.nufc.com/html/2006-07html/2007-03-18charlton-a.html The state of that team man, Duff at LB to

 

Edit: Against Pardews Charlton as well 

 

 

 

 

 

Who the fuck were Onyewu and Moore?   (Double checked the spelling of Moore with a quick google before joeyt pounced on it). The rest were not that bad tbh.

[Ste]

7 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Who the fuck were Onyewu and Moore?   (Double checked the spelling of Moore with a quick google before joeyt pounced on it). The rest were not that bad tbh.

 

Onyewu was America's answer to Bobby Moore, and Craig Moore Australia's answer to Maldini.

[Guest]

Moore was good during the Roeder caretaker spell.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Optimistic Nut