Sven Botman

[Beth]

At the end of the day we currently have three "Purples" Isak/Bruno/Botman, maybe four if you throw in Gordon as well. Of the four, Bruno is the oldest and already at his peak transfer value. We have to sell one of them sooner or later in order to move forward with FFP.

[Mazzy]

2 minutes ago, Beth said:

At the end of the day we currently have three "Purples" Isak/Bruno/Botman, maybe four if you throw in Gordon as well. Of the four, Bruno is the oldest and already at his peak transfer value. We have to sell one of them sooner or later in order to move forward with FFP.

 

I think everything that has happened in the last 3/4 days is proof that we don't have to do that at all. Whether we will or not is another matter. 

[Beth]

12 minutes ago, Mazzy said:

 

I think everything that has happened in the last 3/4 days is proof that we don't have to do that at all. Whether we will or not is another matter. 

Yes we don't need to sell anyone if we want to stand still the next 2/3 years. Or is there some magical future money source coming in we are unaware of? Trippier, Almiron and Wilson are effectively worthless 18 months from now unless we give them extended contracts.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

What's Christmas like at your gaff, Beth?

[Beth]

8 minutes ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

What's Christmas like at your gaff, Beth?

Mint. I don't buy any presents unless they're charged at 50% above their actual value.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

22 minutes ago, Beth said:

Yes we don't need to sell anyone if we want to stand still the next 2/3 years. Or is there some magical future money source coming in we are unaware of? Trippier, Almiron and Wilson are effectively worthless 18 months from now unless we give them extended contracts.

Simply, yes there is a magical future money source coming in as we increase our commercial deals

 

and yes we could sell a Bruno and bring in 4 £40-£50m players or we could bring in £20-30/£40m from squad players, bring in 1-2 new first teamers and use some of the kids on the cups to pad out the squad.

 

may be slower, but it’s a better way to grow the first team

[Lotus]

Would be surprised if we ever actually managed to replace Bruno. It’s not just his skill it’s his ‘all in’ attitude and commitment combined  with his skills and vision that make him the player he is for us. He’s totally bought in on the idea of being The Man. 
He also rarely misses a game.
Chances of finding that combination in one player again for us will have very long odds.

[Mountain]

57 minutes ago, Lotus said:

Would be surprised if we ever actually managed to replace Bruno. It’s not just his skill it’s his ‘all in’ attitude and commitment combined  with his skills and vision that make him the player he is for us. He’s totally bought in on the idea of being The Man. 
He also rarely misses a game.
Chances of finding that combination in one player again for us will have very long odds.

 

 

Considering how injury prone our squad is and that he's a warrior who keeps turning up for games, we simply can't sell him imo.

[Mazzy]

11 hours ago, Beth said:

Yes we don't need to sell anyone if we want to stand still the next 2/3 years. Or is there some magical future money source coming in we are unaware of? Trippier, Almiron and Wilson are effectively worthless 18 months from now unless we give them extended contracts.

 

Yes there is a magical money source actually. Its advertising and sponsorship. Theres also players like Longstaff/Anderson/Miley who if they don't fulfill their full potential could also be sold for a good profit. Anderson for example could easily go this summer if we bring in 2/3 better midfielders,  same could be said for Longstaff arguably.

[Ben]

What a player amazing again today

 

 

(He did play didn't he ?)

[joeyt]

Tremendous again

[Karjala]

Best performance for some time, hopefully he's close to being fully back

[Solitude20]

He might be my favorite player in the team right now, not Bruno, not Isak, I just like those composed defenders. 
 

I remember watching Serie A in the late 90s/early 2000s and how everyone was picking Ronaldo or Zidane as their favorite player, mine was Alessandro Nesta 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2024 by Solitude20

[80]

Does he have less muscle mass or is it just me? Looks more slight.

 

Does seem less dominant as a defender now since his injury, though I'm sure he'll get back to his best in time.

[Tiresias]

Just now, 80 said:

Does he have less muscle mass or is it just me? Looks more slight.

 

Does seem less dominant as a defender now since his injury, though I'm sure he'll get back to his best in time.

 

Feels a bit of whole defense not quite functioning midfield backwards, exposed too much

[80]

1 minute ago, Tiresias said:

 

Feels a bit of whole defense not quite functioning midfield backwards, exposed too much

Yes, it's not a well oiled machine now. Interested to see how much of a difference Pope makes when he comes back. I predict it'll be a big one.

[Lotus]

Part of the issue is that none of our starting defenders are great defending one vs one.  Botman is the best of the starters but he is also susceptible to pace. All four of them have problems in a foot race with anyone even moderately quick so depend on reading the situation and starting position to negate it. That becomes problematic when players run at you unopposed. Last season we always midfielders or attackers sprinting back and forcing the attackers into less than ideal decisions. 
Botman is looking a bit less self assured because he hasn’t got the same level of protection. He’s still a very good defender imo and will get better. Needs a bit pace on at least one side of him though. Especially in our system.

[Tiresias]

we super miss Joelinton in the middle. He was fucking everywhere so many times and ultimately can't easily replace that energy.

[Pata]

Botman was badly beaten for pace on Elanga's goal and Awoniyi's chance (which Dubravka should clear 10/10 before Awoniyi touches the ball tbf).

 

I honestly don't think our defenders have gotten that much worse individually (yes, including Dan Burn) but the combination of a lightweight midfield that offers no protection and Dubravka being rooted to his line exposes and highlights their weaknesses.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2024 by Pata

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Exactly right, defending is all about units. 
 

Botman had a decent game overall I thought. 

[Smal]

8 minutes ago, Pata said:

Botman was badly beaten for pace on Elanga's goal and Awoniyi's chance (which Dubravka should clear 10/10 before Awoniyi touches the ball tbf).

 

I honestly don't think our defenders have gotten that much worse individually (yes, including Dan Burn) but the combination of a lightweight midfield that offers no protection and Dubravka being rooted to his line exposes and highlights their weaknesses.

 

 

 

our xg conceded per game before and after the Pope injury (not including today):

 

Before: 14.3 in 14 games = 1.02
After: 26.1 in 9 games = 2.9

 

[OCOCOL]

It amazes me how we’re so quick to turn on our own. A few of the goals that have seen blame passed to Burn have equally seen Botman at fault.

 

Nevertheless I’m not a boo boy. Botman is class and Burn is a top pro - Howe just needs to recognise his limitations against pace. I love Howe fwiw but I think he’s trying to face up a debate when he should concede for the teams best interests

[Pata]

Just now, Smal said:

our xg conceded per game before and after the Pope injury (not including today):

 

Before: 14.3 in 14 games = 1.02
After: 26.1 in 9 games = 2.9

 

 

That's a staggering difference but the timing of the other injuries must play a role too.

 

Pope sweeping long balls and through balls looks very standard and ordinary but is so important, you don't really realise it until you see a GK that allowed that chance to Awoniyi happen (or even the Elanga goal which Pope might have dealt with). He made a mess of it few times and it's often scary to watch but we badly miss that right now.

[Smal]

5 minutes ago, Pata said:

 

That's a staggering difference but the timing of the other injuries must play a role too.

 

Pope sweeping long balls and through balls looks very standard and ordinary but is so important, you don't really realise it until you see a GK that allowed that chance to Awoniyi happen (or even the Elanga goal which Pope might have dealt with). He made a mess of it few times and it's often scary to watch but we badly miss that right now.

The injuries definitely play a part aye, and I don’t even think Dubravka has been playing badly, but he’s just the opposite of the right profile for us.

 

I don’t even really rate Pope either, but he is a completely different goalkeeper to Dubravka and it’s shown massively during his absence what a goalkeeper of Pope’s profile gives us. Relatively slow back line that regularly plays high up and man to man? You need an aggressive keeper who will dominate large spaces, not a meek one who hasn’t got a clue how to come off his line. 

[Mountain]

3 minutes ago, Smal said:

The injuries definitely play a part aye, and I don’t even think Dubravka has been playing badly, but he’s just the opposite of the right profile for us.

 

I don’t even really rate Pope either, but he is a completely different goalkeeper to Dubravka and it’s shown massively during his absence what a goalkeeper of Pope’s profile gives us. Relatively slow back line that regularly plays high up and man to man? You need an aggressive keeper who will dominate large spaces, not a meek one who hasn’t got a clue how to come off his line. 

 

Pope is a fantastic keeper in my view. But I respect your opinion.