Sven Botman

[Displayname]

Im not going to blame anyone in particular, but it is completely foolish to think we are just unlucky with all these injuries. The chances of it all just being a coincident dropped below believable quite a while ago.

[timeEd32]

15 minutes ago, wormy said:

I'm confused. He's talking about surgery being out of the question but he'd been trying to avoid that and is gutted? Is he getting surgery and gutted about it or not or is it just a translation issue?

 

Sorry but I really can't be arsed to trawl through the pages of 'could we have prevented this' talk to find out. 

 

 

 

 

It's just poorly translated I think. I think it means "it's hard to accept that surgery is now the only option after trying to avoid it."

[Zero]

He has been trying to avoid it, fighting hard for long = which means he knew he is not fully recovered yet. 

[BermyToon]

54 minutes ago, Displayname said:

Im not going to blame anyone in particular, but it is completely foolish to think we are just unlucky with all these injuries. The chances of it all just being a coincident dropped below believable quite a while ago.

 

I think there wasn't enough squad rotation during the season, we were trying to play the same XI week in week out despite traveling for the CL. Going into the season with just two strikers was madness also.

[Erikse]

53 minutes ago, Displayname said:

Im not going to blame anyone in particular, but it is completely foolish to think we are just unlucky with all these injuries. The chances of it all just being a coincident dropped below believable quite a while ago.

 

I agree. And this particular one might still just be unlucky. We don't know which ones that are down to bad luck or something we could've prevented. But I can't see a scenario where we get this absurd amount of injuries if we just "did what we had to do" all the way. So in the grand scheme of things, I'd say that there must be something seriously wrong in terms of our injury prevention, and I hope they figure out how to improve on it.

[madras]

4 minutes ago, BermyToon said:

 

I think there wasn't enough squad rotation during the season, we were trying to play the same XI week in week out despite traveling for the CL. Going into the season with just two strikers was madness also.

Isak and Wilson were rotated, Barnes got injured when playing for a rotated Gordon, Murphy came in for Miggy in Milan I think. Willock, Tonali and Anderson were out for long spells limiting rotation options. 

 

 

[The Prophet]

55 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

I agree. And this particular one might still just be unlucky. We don't know which ones that are down to bad luck or something we could've prevented. But I can't see a scenario where we get this absurd amount of injuries if we just "did what we had to do" all the way. So in the grand scheme of things, I'd say that there must be something seriously wrong in terms of our injury prevention, and I hope they figure out how to improve on it.

 

There may not be something seriously wrong. It might just be we overplayed players or fast tracked them from rehab so that we could play a competative eleven during the peak of our injury crisis.

[Sean]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

There may not be something seriously wrong. It might just be we overplayed players or fast tracked them from rehab so that we could play a competative eleven during the peak of our injury crisis.

That can be classed as something seriously wrong though. It definitely leaves a debate in that regard.

 

And we didn't put out a competitive eleven during the peak of our injury crisis so it was pointless at best in any case.

[arnonel]

Why are people on here so desperate to blame people or for "heads to roll"

If you cant believe its just bad luck, which occams razor suggests is probably correct,

Can we all agree that we now have a team with the best interest of the team at heart, and even if.................even if, in the unlikely event that someone somewhere made a mistake....

We are all £$%$" human and mistakes are part of the game

Why the obsession with blaming people, pointing fingers, and being upset about it

[GideonShandy]

With the benefit of hindsight, he was never the same after that episode with his cat at the airport.

[Abacus]

2 hours ago, Erikse said:

 

I mean, I believe you, but did they really tell you all this without even telling you whether the injury was related, which is kind of the main part, and is the one thing that will definetly be known to everyone anyways? I guess we know now from the Botman post.

 

 

 

Well, I thought that at first, especially when it was described as a fresh injury.

 

But I suppose that even if it's a recurrence /worsening of the same injury that it could well be the case that a majority of them thought surgery wouldn't be required, that still needn't mean they were wrong at the time based on what they knew then.

 

I'm not sure you could ignore the balance of opinion and chloroform him into hospital Mr T style. Even if that later then turned out to have been the right call with hindsight.

 

Anyway, a horrible long lay off for him mentally as well as physically.

 

I guess the one thing about any long term impacts here is that at his best he always played with his head, compensating for a slight like of pace to get his positioning right, and hopefully that shouldn't be affected.

 

Anyway, I think we can all agree that it's shite for him, for us and the club, so he'd better come back rebuilt like RoboCop.

[rebelrouser]

3 hours ago, BermyToon said:

Disappointing. He didn't seem like his old self after his return from injury this year though. Hopefully Lascelles or Dummett could provide adequate cover till Botman's back.

Or Burn. 

[andycap]

4 hours ago, Nucasol said:

He won’t unless we choose to cash in as he signed a one year extension.

Didn't know he had thought it was only Krafth that signed one. 

[andycap]

4 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Has he not just signed an extension?

I didn't know about that. 

[Displayname]

58 minutes ago, arnonel said:

Why are people on here so desperate to blame people or for "heads to roll"

If you cant believe its just bad luck, which occams razor suggests is probably correct,

Can we all agree that we now have a team with the best interest of the team at heart, and even if.................even if, in the unlikely event that someone somewhere made a mistake....

We are all £$%$" human and mistakes are part of the game

Why the obsession with blaming people, pointing fingers, and being upset about it

Its a discussion forum where discussions around if our injury record is just unlucky or if there is something else going on is perfectly natural.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2024 by Displayname

[Miggys First Goal]

Lad at work is convinced this is all Eddie’s fault, that Eddie should fall on his sword, and that Jose should be brought in to replace him. 
 

Mentalist. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

1 hour ago, Displayname said:

Its a discussion forum where discussions around if our injury record is just unlucky or if there is something else going on is perfectly natural.

It is natural but it’s normally argued based on absolutely nothing. 

[Vinny Green Balls]

5 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

It is natural but it’s normally argued based on absolutely nothing. 

And despite one poster with information cleared up a lot of ambiguity a number of times, yet still a few continue on this path.

 

 

[Collage]

We might need to sign an additional CB, possibly an older, cheapish one, the Federico Fernandez type. A major upgrade on Dummett if you like. Someone who could be a 3rd-4th CB when Botman is back. Howe doesn't see Burn as a CB backup for some reason, how many games has he played there for us?

[Displayname]

46 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

It is natural but it’s normally argued based on absolutely nothing. 

Most of our opinions here is based on absolutely nothing tbf.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2024 by Displayname

[Shadow Puppets]

Most of this aligns with everything I've been told... although I would dispute his assertion (reasons below) that he's been actively playing with a "partial tear". As I've said previously, he's had regular scans over the last few months to make sure that he's fine and able to keep playing (the last one being just before the Wolves game), and every one of them has been reassuring and in the words I was told... "clear". Now, I obviously haven't seen the scans and I'm not a doctor, but I'd be highly surprised if "clear" equals "partial tear"... which leads me to believe that that part is incorrect from Downie.

 

 

[Zero]

His own words: tried his best to avoid surgery to cure the knee but ultimately failed.

 

He knew he hasn’t fully recovered since the October injury. I don’t think that needs to be questioned now, or else he would simply say it’s fucking unfortunate to pick up another knee injury within 1 season.

The “clear” sign is obviously wrong. 

[Bellis80]

32 minutes ago, Shadow Puppets said:

Most of this aligns with everything I've been told... although I would dispute his assertion (reasons below) that he's been actively playing with a "partial tear". As I've said previously, he's had regular scans over the last few months to make sure that he's fine and able to keep playing (the last one being just before the Wolves game), and every one of them has been reassuring and in the words I was told... "clear". Now, I obviously haven't seen the scans and I'm not a doctor, but I'd be highly surprised if "clear" equals "partial tear"... which leads me to believe that that part is incorrect from Downie.

 

 

Not sure how they align when you were told it was all ok and the new injury came out of the blue when Downie’s description sounds like they made every wrong decision from start to finish.

[Shadow Puppets]

11 minutes ago, Bellis80 said:

Not sure how they align when you were told it was all ok and the new injury came out of the blue when Downie’s description sounds like they made every wrong decision from start to finish.

Er, no... that's not what he's saying at all. Unless of course your agenda only allows you to hear what you want to hear.

 

These things align... 

• The injury in the Brentford game was considered very minor... a little bit of swelling and then absolutely fine. Sven felt perfectly fine, so there was no suspicion that anything was in any way seriously wrong.
• That changed in the Sheff Utd game.
• He saw 3 specialists.
• There was some level of disagreement over the severity, but ALL AGREED that rest was a perfectly acceptable course of action.
• When Sven started playing again in January, his scans were considered perfectly fine and he was cleared to play (by ALL parties).

The only difference between what Downie is saying and what I've been told is that his ongoing scans have been perfectly fine with no need for concern. I'm literally 100% sure of that, and I know with 100% conviction that Downie is incorrect on that one.

 

40 minutes ago, Zero said:

His own words: tried his best to avoid surgery to cure the knee but ultimately failed.

 

He knew he hasn’t fully recovered since the October injury. I don’t think that needs to be questioned now, or else he would simply say it’s fucking unfortunate to pick up another knee injury within 1 season.

The “clear” sign is obviously wrong. 

 

1. Yes, that's true... Sven and the club made the decision based on every specialist's recommendations and multiple ongoing scans.
2. Depends on how you define "fully recovered". It takes months of playing to feel, in your own body, "fully recovered" from any relatively complex injury, even once you're cleared to play.
3. With every complex injury, and this one is no different, you have regular ongoing scans to make sure that everything is holding up as it should. His latest scan, as of just before the Wolves game, was perfectly fine (the word I was told was "clear") and the specialists cleared him to continue playing. I know this to be 100% true... I literally have ZERO doubts.

[Erikse]

17 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

It is natural but it’s normally argued based on absolutely nothing. 

 

It's based common sense from having a historicly bad injury record throughout the entire season. It would be incredibly naive to suggest that it's all just bad luck. Why was this injury not surprising at all?