Jackie Broon Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) @Happinesstan That's some Jordan Peterson level bullshit there. Edited January 30, 2022 by Jackie Broon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxst Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 19:51, Happinesstan said: I believe 'Claimant' is the term used. People in here have already convicted him because he's a young, wealthy footballer. Expand Claimant?! Ffs! Lol! She hasn’t even ‘claimed’ anything according to her fathers statement- her phone was hacked and the evidence revealed. She didn’t go to the police. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDog Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 19:51, Happinesstan said: I believe 'Claimant' is the term used. People in here have already convicted him because he's a young, wealthy footballer. Expand The bloody face could have been an accident. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxst Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 19:53, Jackie Broon said: That's some Jordan Peterson level bullshit there. Expand Really? In what way? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) They've convicted him because there's substantial evidence he's done it. This isn't just some accusatory tweet. Fair enough, it's not literally 100% proof, but it's clearly beyond the line of us playing semantics on whether or not she's a victim Edited January 30, 2022 by Hanshithispantz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 19:47, Happinesstan said: Trouble is, until a conviction is achieved, she's not legally a victim, so accusing people of victim blame, whilst a perfectly natural emotional response, is a little premature. Expand Wrong. The Police and CPS both refer to the person(s) as a victim prior to a conviction. Claimant is in relation to a civil case, not criminal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 19:54, Manxst said: Really? In what way? Expand Sorry, that was meant to be a reply to Stan's post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 20:00, Fantail Breeze said: Wrong. The Police and CPS both refer to the person(s) as a victim prior to a conviction. Claimant is in relation to a civil case, not criminal. Expand I did edit to say I can't remember exactly as I've tried my best to erase the memory, if you think that audio recording was traumatic, we were treated to a full video display. As to the Police and CPS, they are both assuming a conviction, or it wouldn't make the court, but neither barrister or judge referred to them as victim, I think either their name, or simply the witness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jan/30/rayo-vallecano-stand-by-womens-coach-who-made-gang-remark-on-phone Wasn't sure where to post this, but Christ. Utterly grim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxst Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 20:08, Happinesstan said: I did edit to say I can't remember exactly as I've tried my best to erase the memory, if you think that audio recording was traumatic, we were treated to a full video display. As to the Police and CPS, they are both assuming a conviction, or it wouldn't make the court, but neither barrister or judge referred to them as victim, I think either their name, or simply the witness. Expand Of course the judiciary don’t refer to them in court as ‘the victim’- that’s more than a little demeaning to them! The police and CPS don’t address the individual purely by that title either, but legally, that’s what they are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDog Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 20:14, The Prophet said: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jan/30/rayo-vallecano-stand-by-womens-coach-who-made-gang-remark-on-phone Wasn't sure where to post this, but Christ. Utterly grim. Expand Nobody could be that big a shit head, right? right? *sigh* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 20:14, The Prophet said: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jan/30/rayo-vallecano-stand-by-womens-coach-who-made-gang-remark-on-phone Wasn't sure where to post this, but Christ. Utterly grim. Expand Fuck me, that is horrific. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 20:08, Happinesstan said: I did edit to say I can't remember exactly as I've tried my best to erase the memory, if you think that audio recording was traumatic, we were treated to a full video display. As to the Police and CPS, they are both assuming a conviction, or it wouldn't make the court, but neither barrister or judge referred to them as victim, I think either their name, or simply the witness. Expand That’s not what your post said. You said it was premature to call her a victim, that’s not true. Even if he is found not guilty, or charges are not applied, it doesn’t stop her being a victim - it just means there wasn’t enough evidence. The court will identify them as a witness, as the whole role of the court is to be impartial during trial and referring as a victim may set prejudices. Appreciate the horrific evidence you probably had to listen to and hear, can’t have been easy. On 30/01/2022 at 20:14, Manxst said: Of course the judiciary don’t refer to them in court as ‘the victim’- that’s more than a little demeaning to them! The police and CPS don’t address the individual purely by that title either, but legally, that’s what they are. Expand Sadly, they do call them a victim quite routinely (not in court) which is wrong imo. Same as social care referring to people as ‘service users’ or hospitals calling people ‘patients’. Aye, the term to describe a group of people isn’t too bad but when speaking about a specific person, you should use their name. I hate people being referred to by a title and think people have names for a reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 20:14, Manxst said: Of course the judiciary don’t refer to them in court as ‘the victim’- that’s more than a little demeaning to them! The police and CPS don’t address the individual purely by that title either, but legally, that’s what they are. Expand And if he gets placed on remand he'll be asked if he wants to be put with the nonces due to the nature of his crime, despite legally being innocent at that point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 20:23, Fantail Breeze said: it just means there wasn’t enough evidence. Expand It doesn't mean they're innocent? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxst Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 20:23, Fantail Breeze said: Sadly, they do call them a victim quite routinely (not in court) which is wrong imo. Same as social care referring to people as ‘service users’ or hospitals calling people ‘patients’. Aye, the term to describe a group of people isn’t too bad but when speaking about a specific person, you should use their name. I hate people being referred to by a title and think people have names for a reason. Expand Oh, I’m well aware…which is why I said ‘address’ and tried to mean specifically to their face etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxst Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 20:23, Happinesstan said: And if he gets placed on remand he'll be asked if he wants to be put with the nonces due to the nature of his crime, despite legally being innocent at that point. Expand So? If he gets put on remand, then there would have to be specific reasons why that is the case. Just because there hasn’t been a conclusion to his potential trial to give him a guilty or not verdict, doesn’t mean he can’t or shouldn’t be remanded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxst Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 20:30, Shays Given Tim Flowers said: The fact he hasn’t been charged with an offence is a reason why he’s not going to be remanded. Expand No one has said otherwise, I don’t think? It’s why I’ve mentioned trial….after being charged. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 20:29, Manxst said: So? If he gets put on remand, then there would have to be specific reasons why that is the case. Just because there hasn’t been a conclusion to his potential trial to give him a guilty or not verdict, doesn’t mean he can’t or shouldn’t be remanded. Expand I never questioned whether anybody should be remanded. I trust the courts in that decision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxst Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 20:32, Happinesstan said: I never questioned whether anybody should be remanded. I trust the courts in that decision. Expand Your prior post suggested that being ‘put with the nonces…despite being legally innocent’ might be seen as an unjust occurrence? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 20:37, Manxst said: Your prior post suggested that being ‘put with the nonces…despite being legally innocent’ might be seen as an unjust occurrence? Expand Re read the ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxst Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 20:38, Happinesstan said: Re read the ... Expand Nah. Judging by your posts I know where you stand on the matter. I’ll bow out for a while here. Might be good if you do some reading yourself… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 20:40, Manxst said: Nah. Judging by your posts I know where you stand on the matter. I’ll bow out for a while here. Might be good if you do some reading yourself… Expand An innocent man as committed no crime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 20:40, Manxst said: Nah. Judging by your posts I know where you stand on the matter. I’ll bow out for a while here. Might be good if you do some reading yourself… Expand I don't stand anywhere on the matter. Each case is unique and should be judged free of all emotion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ9 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 I think this discussion is what I was getting at. Girl X has experienced something traumatic, is clearly hurt and distressed and this board is picking apart language here. Anyway, I’m aware that I’m now contributing to this myself, so off I fuck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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